flash player 10 support
 

I'm inquiring about flash player 10 support for the n810 but will be happy to hear of any internet media tablet having support for flash player 10. Is it available? Is it possible? Is it in the works?

I ask because I love sites like picnik, grooveshark, and photoshop express. Will these webapps work without flash player 10? It would be amazing if I could use those webapps on an imt.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Flash 10 isn't available for the N810, as of now, and others would know better than I if it will be at some point. That said, I can only think of one website I've been to that didn't work with Flash 9 (which ships with the N810). As for the websites you mention, I haven't tried them, so I can't help you there. My advice would be that unless lack of Flash 10 is a complete dealbreaker for you, don't let it influence your buying decision too much. I'm quite happy with my N810, and it hasn't been much of an issue.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

thank you for your help.

im actually waiting for amazon to have it in stock again. another concern i have is that at prices as low as amazons, nokia tech support warned me that i may not be purchasing a US version. Any thoughts?

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Flash 10 will be using OpenGL ES and optimized for OMAP3. Adobe and ARM are working on this. See http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pres...dobeFlash.html

Amazon should say the S&H and tell you where the device is shipped from. If its coming from US you can be reasonably sure its a US version.

If not, it should be stated clearly.

If it isn't a US version while its sold from a US business residing in US, you receive the device, and you are not satisfied then you should be able to get a full refund because the advertisement was bad. There are very little differences between US and other versions except in case of N810 the keyboard might be different.

If in doubt save yourself the hassle, and ask the seller.

Amazon isn't fully world-wide. Maybe they mean 2nd hand devices. Sure, on eBay you should take care to read the auction. I bought my Nokia N810 in UK, and the only big problem was the adapter to load it up which doesn't work in EU. But most Nokia adapters simply work, and I had some spare adapters.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Any update on this?

As it is right now I can't download Amazon movies because they tweaked the VOD site to require Flash 10...it's driving me crazy.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

If i understand properly, it will only be available on the next generation of internet tablets. The n8XX series is OMAP2 and lacks the graphics hardware to do proper openGL (technically the hardware is there, but it is not in use due to various technicalities including nokia not wanting to pay the royalties for using it and possible lack of support of the chip to produce the necessary 800x480 resolution needed for the N8XX series (?))

Re: flash player 10 support
 

I tried to watch a tv show on Hulu.com and couldn't because the Nokia N810 doesn't have the most up-to-date flash player. I went to Adobe's website and downloaded the latest player under the Linux version; I chose DEB for Ubuntu from there.

Download was successful to tablet. Instillation failed because there are other packages that need to be downloaded and intalled as well. What these are I do not know.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

The ubuntu version you downloaded would have been for the x86 architecture (used on most computers), whereas the Nokia n810 uses ARM. (different processor technologies require different programs). Also notice that there is an ubuntu version, and probably versions for debian, fedora etc, but none for maemo (sometimes different operating systems will require tweaks to the programs)

Re: flash player 10 support
 

really? i havent found any flash-based sites (that I frequent) that WILL work the the n810...

i've tried

myspace: no flash (except for the on-page music player)
hulu: no flash
abc.com: no flash

i'm not a big youtube guy, I watch what major media tells me to ;)

i'm still looking for a way around the flash check...

Re: flash player 10 support
 

If the hardware restriction is true then by two years from now our 800/810 browsing cabability will be seriously hamstrung as I'm sure many sites will have moved on to whatever the latest and greatest Flash version is.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Yes well, the iphone and ipod touch still don't have any flash. Besides, Nokia wants you to be using the next generation of internet tablets in 2 years time

Re: flash player 10 support
 

... which is exactly why Flash is a bad thing: A proprietary technology with a huge market share controlled by a single vendor who thus gets to control what people can use to browse the web. Instead of clamoring for a Flash update, you should be clamoring for its demise. Nearly everything that Flash is used for can be done by a combination of the HTML 5 <video>, <audio> and <canvas> elements, SVG and advanced CSS features (animations, transforms, etc.) found in the latest versions of browser engines anyway.

The real shame is that Apple had a good shot at killing Flash by not including it with the iPhone and funding the development of alternatives in WebKit instead (WebKit being the KDE KHTML-derived browser engine powering the iPhone's browser, Android's browser, Nokia's S60 browser and the popular Maemo browser Tear), but then they caved and announced plans to support it after all recently.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

One of the best features of the IT is the quick disable of flash. Second best is disable java scripts - to remove google ads.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Is there any way to hack flash or the browser on the tablet to make web sites think we have Flash 10? I'm pretty sure they're just being stupid and Flash 9 will work fine with all of them.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

True, but have you ever used Flash CS4? It is super easy to make programs, animations, games, etc. Find me a tool that is as easy as flash that works with HTML, CSS, and SVG...

(aka, no writing code to "move circle.1 10px left")

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Haven't tried it, but I know CS3/CS4 introduced some newer flash-version autodetecting JavaScript when you use the default "flash media" HTML templates, so as odd as it sounds, try loading up your non-functional flash page with JavaScript turned off and see if the Flash loads properly. There is one other way to do Flash version detecting that I'm aware of, but it's ugly and a pain, so my bet is that all the sites you're running into are probably using JavaScript detection. If that solves the problem then maybe future browsers (Tear, etc) can have some option for user JavaScript over-rides so that whenever the detection function gets called we can just have a "return true" that over-rides it. Of course if the Flash actually uses some new features of the version 10 player then you're going to end up with all kinds of bad things happening, but...

Re: flash player 10 support
 

I would think that many of us, given that we are using Maemo or even more FOSS alternatives on at the very least our IT, can agree with this. However we-the collective we as in the market pretty much are in pretty deep with Adobe and their Flash tech.

However once anything has built up enough momentum your going to have to spend an equal if not greater time moving away from it. Just look, for example how slow the adoption of standards compliant browsers have been. Even with the fact that IE had a awful track record of being a huge virus infection vector it's only now that MS felt threatened enough to put some effort back into it now that FF has gained actual ground.

Hopefully as time goes on we will continue to move towards real open standards on data formats but it will take time.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

I agree that good authoring tools are sadly a far less solved problem than the runtime part of the equation, yes. More work needs to be done in that area for sure. That said, I think a lot of advanced Flash developers (who end up writing copious amounts of ActionScript anyway) would do just fine with the standards-based stuff if they were incentivized to use it (as in the above "I need to use it to reach the iPhone" example ... which unfortunately won't be true for much longer when Apple does start supporting Flash).

Regarding the N810 situation, looking at gnash or swfdec might be worthwhile. I think both prefer OpenGL as rendering backends but also have software fallbacks.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Some clever open source dude needs to write a Flash CS4 plugin that exports to HTML5.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Hey, Thank God/MS for Silverlite, eh?

/ducks and runs... very fast

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Allow me to disagree here.

What is Flash? Flash is a rich media plugin. What even the latest WebKit has that can compete with Flash? Neither of these: CSS transformations, Multiple backgrounds, HTML5 Video, Local storage, Canvas. Most vendors won't even think of using these new technologies. Why? IE doesn't support them. Heck, even not that older FF and WebKit doesn't support them.

SVG can compete with Flash a little (vector based and can do some animation, but no video), but is largely unusable if its not inline (for instance one of my favorites is that WebKit thinks that starting an HTML javascript function from the embedded SVG object is an XSS attack (and that's the only way to propagate a mouse click on the SVG to the underlying HTML document)). BUT... SVG inline is not supported in IE and requires application/xhtml+xml content type which IE doesn't even parse. In fact Microsoft won't even try to include SVG or Canvas support in IE. Why? Because they directly compete with Silverlight too.

Now we're talking - Silverlight is currently the only Flash competitor. And do you trust a browser vendor that openly disregards any new technology that competes with their own rich media plugin to be any better than Adobe?

I don't.

In fact I believe it will get much worse.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

You owe me a keyboard. Took a sip of my tea the moment before reading this funny statement.

Flash is a bad thing only in some people's views because honestly it was abused at first. Flash intros were horrible. Cheesy. Stupid. A waste of time.

But now, as a Flash/Flex and occasional Silverlight dev - RIA is where I'm at mostly now - I'd rather do it all in Flash/Flex than HTML5 and the like. Only Ajax gives Flash competition.

The fact that FP10 isn't on my Nokia Tablet does make it hard for me to show some things. Let alone no Adobe AIR apps as well - and AIR runs on Mac, Windows and Linux.

Perhaps ARM and Adobe will finish up accelerating FP10 for those cpu's.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Tried this on the Amazon VOD site, but get an error saying that Javascript is required and you can not complete a purchase without it. Thanks for the tip though, I'll try this on other sites if I come across one that requires Flash 10.

Really trying to figure out a work around for the Amazon site though, just seems crazy to need the latest Flash just to make a purchase...I'm downloading to a TiVo, so it isn't like I'm trying to watch a movie on the N800, I just want to buy it on the go so it will be waiting for me by the time I get home.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

You could use ssh and vnc to remotely control a desktop computer that has the latest Flash... Clunky workaround, but hey.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Don't want too get too off topic here but my main problem with Flash is that it can/is used to take control away from me. That it has been used as a virus infection vector tipifies why this is bad.

That being said I do want viable content delivery systems for my browsers. Be they on my PC or smaller device. I would love to be able to watch streaming web content from my IT like for example from adultswim.com. But such sites are all really Flash 10 these days so...

Re: flash player 10 support
 

That's a good idea, but I tend to not keep my computer on all the time, and this isn't a big enough want to change that practice.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

VNC = no sound

What about the Open Screen Project? I thought Adobe wanted flash on everything, so they were lessening restrictions or something.

Getting a bit off topic here

At my mom's company, ezschool.com, we are actually moving from PDF to Flash. Adobe Acrobat takes ages to load, and a lot of people complain (also crashes a lot). Flash is quick and simple, and allows for dynamic linking, etc. We usually publish in Flash 5 or Flash 8, because who needs action script 3 and fancy stuff for something simple? I hate websites that check the exact version of flash, and refuse to even TRY and display if it is a version too old...

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Most vendors would certainly think of providing a version of their pages using these new technologies if there was a significant audience they could not reach any other way. Right now that audience is a fast-growing number of iPhone and Android phone owners.

The explosion of mobile web browsing alongside improvements to rich media handling in standards-based content runtimes has provided us with an opportunity to relegate Flash to the role of a legacy technology used for IE compatibility, for the benefit of a more free and more technologically sound web.

Or it maybe had - until Apple proved its lack of vision and promised Flash to iPhone users. We will see. And no, I don't care any more for Silverlight than I care for Flash.

PS.: Tear just froze up while composing this post. I wonder if hanging while disagreeing with you is a built-in feature :D.



No offense, but AJAX refers to a set of techniques, not a technology, and as such is not distinct from HTML 5 or the other technologies I listed. Rather, the AJAX techniques are used with these technologies. I recommend you read up more on web technology. Though I find that most Flash/Silverlight guys tend to care little about standards, sadly.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Okay now we're pretty far off topic but I'll continue the thought here... AJAX as stated has huge appeal because of it's flexibility. You can take any HTML developer, anyone with a basic coding background, and any web designer, and migrate them from working on traditional web development into the AJAX scenario with as much, or as little, "rich enhancement" as you want. Same story goes for performance and devices; you can have a lot of very basic AJAX techniques that make a website soooo much easier to use, especially on things like mobile devices, without incurring a lot of overhead. You have the ability to go all out ape crazy too, but those aren't the majority of cases that you run into. And thanks to web standards cross device cross platform issues are pretty minimal.

Flash has it's uses, and even in the AJAX paradigm it can be handy for doing things that other technologies aren't as well suited for; at the moment video handling, things like socket connections, etc. The problem with Flash generally is two fold: 1) developers and people who use it subscribe to the "flash or nothing" mentality typically. Because you have to learn to use a whole new methodology of authoring and developing, you end up trying to use Flash for more than just what's it's really good at, which adds overhead and in the end a reduced user experience. 2) The flash player is horribly inefficient, especially on mobile devices, simply because it has always been designed as a high level runtime. And the problem here is that it's inefficient because you incur the same base level of overhead whether you have a flash movie that's just a green blinking dot, or a whole interface, because the player still has to load up and process the swf. Now obviously more complex swf's can require more memory or CPU cycles to deal with, but the point remains.

Anyways enough of that... as I tell my students (I teach AJAX development at a local college), it really just comes down to the best tools to do the job; only incur the overhead of Flash if you actually need the features of Flash and you've already got a Flash background.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

jolouis: Can you point me to any good "AJAX for newbies" sites? I like the ideas behind it, but I don't know how to begin.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Let's see. Flex is based on XML and ActionScript 3, which is based on ECMAScript, the international standardized programming language for scripting. ECMA-262 to be exact.

Not one comment about Silverlight - XAML, JavaScript and C# are pretty much not standardized; but it's a necessary evil in some client projects.

That's more than one standard. Now, in my comment, I can see how it could be skewed to support your idea that Flex/Silverlight developers don't care about standards; however you're very wrong. XML, E4X, ECMA, MVC, all make appearances in my day.

And without specifying what "standards" you're talking about; I'd suggest that you do more research into what you're talking about.

Now, in regards to AJAX, there's nothing new about xmlhttprequest. It's not really changed since Microsoft dreamt it up years ago. However, as I were talking, I was talking about the presentation layer and how you can use AJAX to represent data and pull queries and display that information without having to redraw the entire screen. Same as I would do in Flex/Flash.

There's nothing new about asynchronous data; but I suggest that you understand that I was talking about RIA's and more importantly, the presentation layer.

Nice try though.

Re: flash player 10 support
 

Sorry for the delay, here's what I've got:

-- I don't have inside info on Nokia releases... I know they're heavily involved in expanding the ecology within the Open Screen Project, but I don't know what will ship when.

-- Amazon Video-on-Demand is a for-pay service, and the clientside support for these types of contracts was introduced with Adobe Flash Player 10. Sorry, but I don't see a way for you to work that service today.

-- Other sites should generally be fine, but this will change with time... Player 10 was audited in March at 75% support on consumer desktops... each week more websites feel comfortable using Player 10 features.

We've got two things to solve: making it easier and faster for manufacturers to get Flash running on their devices, and then being able to easily update devices already running out there in the world. More info on how these are being addressed is at openscreenproject.org

jd/adobe