Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

From the title, you are going to think of me as a massive noob, well, it is my first post... anyway, I'm starting to learn programming and stuff and not sure if this can be done etc.
Anyway, to the point, could we create something that you run on your computer, while running an app on your n810, connect the usb and basically, use the processing power of the computer to help in emulating these things... possibly even use your n810 as a controller for an emulator of things to display on your computer-not as important and I realise that it can already be done...
So, could we get the n810 to hijack the processing of my computer or not????

(PS: I realise that developing the emulator is hard... I know some ipodlovers who could get me in touch with the creators of jailbreak... giving us the os of the itouch... etc. but that's not the point of the post)

Why or why not?

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Okay, I have to say, I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to achieve here... so you want to be able to test out touch interfaces that you're building for other devices by using the touch screen of the NIT but running the application itself on another computer? Or?... I mean the easiest thing to do would be to run the emulator/whatever on the machine with a VNC server setup, and just use the NIT's VNC client to interact with it... it would happen over the network and the VNC performance on the NIT is not uber spectacular, but it would do what I think you're after... otherwise, I don't understand what on earth you're trying to do...

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

first off, welcome to itT, melon.

a few things:
1. on emulating the itouch: the processor in the ipod touch is very similar to that of the tablets--same architecture (ARM), almost same speed, though i think the 2nd gen ipod touch is 532MHz, compared to 400MHz n8x0. so, if the itouch is "high processor", then so are the tablets. (i anticipate a few curious posts wondering why anyone would want to emulate an itouch with an n810, but i'll avoid that question for now.) but, yes, in order to emulate the itouch with your n810, you'd need a much more powerful processor, like that of a computer.
2. the easiest way to use a computer processor to do work for the tablet is to just make the computer do the work and display select elements on the n810's screen and also allow input from the n810 to control the computer. this can be accomplished via the internet with vnc (win/mac/linux) or remote desktop (winxp). vncviewer is available here and probably in the 'extras' repo, and rdesktop is here and should be in 'extras' as well.

so... first, you must get an emulator working on a computer. the rest is a piece of cake. anywhere you have internet access, you'd be able to emulate an ipod touch. it still won't be as fast as the ipod touch, though--even if the emulator runs fast on the computer--because of the lag from remotely accessing your computer. oh, and you'd have to leave your computer on all day so it would be accessible to your tablet.

oh, and it's illegal, but you probably already knew that.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

hmmm.... technically, its illegal but not to create it just to use it (sigh: the law can be used to your advantage in so many ways and im not surprised if a law case over a murder would soon state that it was the gun's fault for having an oversensitive trigger) well, actually, it would be legal if you pay for the apps etc. (provided U didn't use the actual OS and built your own) but enough of the legality.

So, your saying that we could have the emulator running on the computer and then display all the stuff on the n810... (that's what I meant by the way... so sorry for the confusing post) hmmm... what about using a USB for less lag... but that's beside the point. My idea is that we partly use the processing of the n810 for immediate reactions (to reduce lag) and then that stuff gets sent to the computer in the background... then the computer processes more stuff and gives the n810 the broken down, simpler edition that just involves what would be necessary immediately. I'm not sure if this would completely work though. In other words, you press the button, the n810 knows what to immediately do for the next say, 2 seconds while it sends the data to the computer, is processed and is sent back to the n810 so the n810 can then determine what to do in the next say 2 seconds, it wouldn't work for apps taking up all of the processing power of the itouch but, most might still work with little lag. Hopefully, this would reduce lag but, it wouldn't be enough to play high processed games...

How should we get started?

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Emulation is definitely not the best thing to learn programming with

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Yeah, even though I didn't know what the sounds meant at the time, I can remember my dad sayin' as he watched me try to roll on to my tummy, "hey kid, maybe you should learn to crawl before you build that fusion reactor."

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

I know this guy who built his first fusion reactor before he could crawl. Crawling just didn't seem important to him until after he had his doctorate.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

that's very interesting. got my mind cranking pretty good there for a while. i'm not sure if you realized the connection or not, but that's basically how a considerable portion of the internet works, if i'm understanding you correctly. when google maps calculate routes, for instance, all of the processing is done on the server, in contrast to flash applets (like fullscreen-stopwatch), which can be downloaded and subsequently run without an internet connection. the result--returning to the google maps example--is a delay, and i'm pretty sure that can't be avoided.

EXCEPT in the case of OnLive, which is supposedly very responsive. but they have a really cutting-edge protocol, so i'm gonna join the crowd and say that it would be very difficult for a beginning programmer to implement something like this with the tablet and with decent responsiveness. but it would be awesome if you could prove us wrong.

you could work on a menu/navigation/launcher system with kinetic scrolling and try to mimic the appearance/style of the itouch gui instead. you could use bits and pieces of open source apps/projects people have contributed here, like liqbase and personal launcher. anyway, i'm not a programmer, so maybe i shouldn't even be posting here....

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Well, I think just about everyone wears a diaper to their thesis defense.

But okay, forgetting "hello world" for a second. How did we go from:

to:
Those guys over at Google are smart; I blame them for this.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

You will need to create an emulation layer which makes the iPod touch software think it is running on an iPod touch much like the Hackintosh community did with PC hardware. How difficult this will be, I don't know, but I know the iPod touch (and iPhone) use approx same ARM processor as N8x0. If you're a beginning programmer this is probably not easy to achieve. Start with little hacks instead. Pick an existing project and enhance that. Be it for jailbroken iPod touch OS or Maemo, your choice.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Well, what does ipod touch run off... n810 runs off linux but... is it still like c++ or something? Anyway, I'm getting an iTouch and will get the new RX-51 (hopefully it may be slightly easier on this as it supposedly will have better processing) In the meantime, I'm gonna learn all this programming. If iTouch is the same, it is probably better to start with it... well, either way, ill have to learn the programming of it and therefore, programming for it will be better to learn it while programming for it...

Anyway, JmJanzen, that is a very good thought... it's similar only, mine kind of combines the two... which is pretty hard to do. Easy enough to break up the bits and then transfer peices to RX-51 or n810 but, to figure out which ones are necessary and break them up in the correct groups is impossible. My idea is this and it's probably impossible:
The computer begins the processing after an app is launched on the IT, it decides what the first screen needs to function in the beginning, processes it a little to make it easier for the IT. Then, it figures out what the responses of the user of the first page could be, processes it like the first page and sends it to the n810. By now, the user has hit a link, the IT sends that information about the link to the computer and the IT processes into the already processed link and dumps all the rest. Then the computer finds the links or responses to the next action... and it goes on.

Simple to say but, as you all have pointed out, impossible to do... well, it would be very hard. I think this would be a great project but, would be kind of pointless if there is no multitouch or accelerometer. Accelerometer we will get with Craves1's project but, multitouc, we will never get. IDK, I think that I'll start off with some basic processing, get to know the itouch and then, figure out all of this when my RX-51 arrives.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Actually, if you steal the iPhoneOS source code, some smart people could probably compile a OS for the N810. Get those NInJa skillz working for you.

And it was shown that it was possible to run Android and WinCE simultaneously on a tablet via a VM ware product. Search the forum for it...

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

The device is called iPod touch or iPod Touch. Not iTouch. It is not the name of the device, and the name 'iTouch' makes no sense whatsoever. iPod touch runs same OS as iPhone. Its called 'OSX' or 'iPhoneOS'. What it is? A stripped down embedded version of MacOSX. So if you look up on Wikipedia what MacOSX Leopard 10.5 consists of and then read what OSX aka iPhoneOS runs on you know approx the global characteristics. Basically, a hybrid kernel (XNU, based on Mach) with Darwin (sortof like BSD) and on top of that Cocoa framework (UI & toolkit from MacOSX which got it from Nextstep; the *NIX open source equivelant to this is GNUstep). Configuration of anything from kernel module parameters to config files is almost always done with XML files which has its + and -; at least it is the standard so you learn once how this works, use a XML editor, and for the rest you simply don't have to relearn.

RX-51 has more than twice the horsepower of N8x0 which is great, and it can do hardware 2D/3D rendering. However do not assume that the iPhone and iPod touch stay behind in terms of hardware. Probably, Apple is going to use also Cortex (the PA Semi folks do not work on embedded PPC projects) and the OS will probably use this too so that people upgrade to the newer devices.

But really, you don't start with learning programming the way you do. Again, like I said, you start with small things, for existing projects. For example you make a small Python panel for Maemo. Or a shell script which parses some data. This has been explained to you by various folks in this thread and you still do not appear to adapt your ideas to this harsh fact.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

iTouch myself. :-X

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

To quote Robin Williams: "Reality. What a concept!"

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

reminds me of pre-fetching. this can give the illusion of really fast web browsing, but only if you sit idly while the browser prepares for your next move. and it's different from your idea, because you're not talking about storing prefetched information on the tablet--although, that would be the way to get the fastest response, it would just take lots of memory. in your scenario, there's still going to be lag because each user action has to be sent to the computer and the computer has to send back appropriate information to the tablet before the tablet responds.

i don't know, melon. i say hit the books, fueled by the prospect of emulating an ipod touch, but you can expect to hit some serious road blocks that you probably won't be able to plow through--ever.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

I just hate it when the emulator's branch predictor mistakenly deletes the track I loaded the iPod app to play.

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

If you're going to go off correcting people, you might as well be correct yourself. That'd be "iPhone OS", "OS X" and "Mac OS X".

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

Thanks for all your thoughts guys, I realise that It'll be a long time before I'll ever am going to be able to program this, I was just getting an idea. For this kind of emulation (looking to the FUTURE) what kind of programming knowledege would be best?

I like the pre-fetching idea brought up by jmjanzen. Yes, there is still going to be major lag times. Perhaps I could go back to the idea of some kind of VNC, just displaying what the computer has processed, using little processor power, using the rest for com. to computer but, it still has major lag times. The idea of 'pre-fetching' was to try and limit this time. Basically, already having something ready and it's just the same as VNC... well, the idea was to tie together the processing power of the two, using the USB. Is there a way that possibly, the n810 could just turn into an extension of the comuter? Like a mouse and screen that the computer is able to use? That would limit lag time... possibly eliminate it. Not VNC but, almost like another device with another driver or something????

Well, any other ideas on reducing lag time? Or the best programming to learn?

Re: Emulating high processor devices like iTouch-seriously, read
 

old post but melon had some great questions...and nobody should be too big to answer noob questions.

Melon, you're very ambitious, don't let a crew of an old forums turn you off to the computer sciences. this forum is just their playground, literally. don't expect a serious response from all of them.

as far as programming languages go, many code in C, but no matter what language you use, you will need a compiler to compile that code for the target machine (and operating system) that you are programming for. As for the Nokia tablets, you can go the hardcore route and code in C with the development environment set up on a linux box (aka linux computer) or you can code in python, pygame (python libraries for games), lua scripting, Flash (this could get you some GUI functionality like the iphone, minus multi-touch) or Good ol' HTML

as far as forums go, avoid the word "emulation" as in forums its a buzzword that attracts the forum "losers" that just enjoy being pompous and rude toward anyone that they feel isn't part of the "in-crowd" or isn't an ultra PHD, guru, dali lama in linux and computers. which is ironic as many of them probably don't code anything either. they're the peanut gallery.

people like you and I end up contributing more to the community than we take. providing useful information and answering as many questions as we can: the very thing forums are meant to be used for.