Preferred method of text entry poll
 

After using the N810 non-stop for about 4 days, I find myself more and more using the on-screen keyboard for text entry. The keypad is useful for me sometimes, but I find that the keys are difficult to press and differentiate from one another causing many typos. Additionally I find it cumbersome to slide open the N810 for each text entry operation as I prefer to have the unit closed. The on-screen keyboard on the other hand occludes the entire screen, but since I'm forced to look at what I'm typing in either case, this isn't generally an issue (aside from long text entry).

I originally thought that I'd like the keypad more than the on-screen keyboard, but now, my intuition is being handed its hat.

What are your thoughts?


YARR!
}:^)~

Capt'n Banana

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Should you add poll choices for N800/N770 users? For stylus versus the big finger keyboard? Or do you want to expressly exclude N800/N770 users?

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Great question.

I was careful in how I worded the poll options as to not exclude anyone. For example, an N800/770 owner can select, 'I own a tablet and prefer keypad entry', expressing his/her preference despite being limited to on-screen entry (minus any external devices). I wanted to focus on entry preference more than brand loyalty, so I left the specific devices out of the equation. Additionally, I consider finger/stylus on-screen entry, though my personal preference is finger.

The rest is left to discussion!


YARR!
}:^)~

Cpan't Crorput

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

With an N800, I would probably become comfortable with on screen fingering.

With my N 810, I get fairly good feedback from the slightly convex keys, so long as my hands are warm.
In chilly weather my typing goes bananas.
I would like to feel the center of a key more precisely.
And I have yet to find the grip that makes reaching T-G-B comfortable.
I still make too many typos, but they are decreasing.
I do tap passwords with the stylus.
( On my Acorn Archimedes I could set the keyboard repeat time ! )

The N 810 usually rests on my (left) 4 fingers and my (left) thumb pulls the screen up/down by the middle of its lower edge.
( Someone mentioned trouble with the connecting flat cable on this forum.)
In full screen mode I often find the menu key quicker than the window size toggle key.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

In advocacy of the keypad -- for the command line, its tops!


YARR!
}:^)~

echo Capt'n Corrupt > /dev/null

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I generally keep the n810 locked and prefer the slide action to unlock it, I almost never use the lock key, too small/awkward for my fingers. I exclusively use the hw keyboard (typing this on it :) ). Didn't like it that much at first, but with practice it became much better than stylus action (I hate finger typing so that it never was an option). Another reason I prefer it is that it does not take up screen space.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I own an N800, but I voted for keypad because I use a bluetooth kbd whenever possible. The (stylus-) virtual keyboard is my 2nd choice, because it is most complete and best suited for all applications.

Only if absolutely necessary (like when chatting in a taxi) i take the thumb keyboard. I find it frustrating to use because it requires you to constantly switch between tabs. Also, it totally lacks some characters you'd want (like the quotation marks „ and “ we use in German or accented characters you need for writing things like à la carte, Café, Tête-à-tête,...).
What I find most annoying about the thumb keyboard is that it takes you completely out of the context: There's no tab completion in the terminal. When I write this text with the thumb keyboard, I can't select a word and then click on the icon above to insert a link or make it bold. There's no way to do this, you'd need to write [ and B and ] manually. It feels very broken.

I'm looking forward to the next device so I can have a real hardware keyboard, too. I know Maemo5 will no longer include a real VKB, only the thumb variant, but maybe this time they'r doing it right. Or somebody comes up with a 3rd party VKB.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I've had exactly same thoughts after I bought n810 when my n770 died.
The truth is - tablet OS is designed with on screen keyboard in mind so it's realy easy and comfortable to use it for let's say - url input or search via google.
The other thing is Ctrl+[ ] and for example - my Polish letters. It's a pain to type national chars using on screen keyboard and it's relatively easy with hardware one.
Typing errors because of lack of keys separation was my issue for 2-3 months. Now I use my n810 for about 8-9 and I got used to it.
In terminal apps hardware keyboard is excellent because there is no need for screen change - consider using apps like kismet and midnight commander.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I'm on an N800 and almost never use the thumb virtual keyboard. Then again, I use the stylus for very nearly everything (only exceptions are like Pause and Play in gPodder and Canola).

It's very disappointing to me that Maemo5 is not going to support the N8*0 line (do I understand that right?) and if it turns out that it does support the N800, I'd be bummed if it supports only the thumb virtual keyboard and not the stylus keyboard.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

As for thumb on screen keyboard - I tried but it's not practical to me.
Maybe when using n8x0 in a car but let's face it - one probably would kill oneself during Wayfinder/Maemo mapper configuration when driving :)
To sum up - tried few times - for me useless.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I'm using Midnight Commander on my N800 and its hell... :) The transparent keyboard helps, but it is a global setting and i hate myself (and qwerty12:)) after every usage :D

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I use both in different situations, mostly due to the fact that my unit has a French (azerty layout) keypad, but I set my soft keyboard to qwerty.

For short entries, and numeric input, I use the touchscreen, as it's faster and the numbers are directly accessible in "numpad" mode (whereas on the keypad they are in line on the top row and need to be "shifted" with Fn).

For larger entries, especially in French where I need accented characters (which are readily accessible on the keypad, less so on the touchscreen) I use the keypad.

And as you said, the keyboard rules in xterm, and it gives a lot more viewable area.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Just to clarify, I currently have a 5800 in use and IMO onscreen keyboard isn't that practical, even with tactile feedback.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

my favorite input method on my N810 is stylus / liqbase for taking notes, but I really prefer the keypad to touchscreen options when I have to do it non-handwritten (I don't use handwriting recognition either).
the best solution is the bluetooth folding keyboard, but it's too big/heavy for me to carry everyday.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Indeed.

I find after a week of use, like fpp, I find pros and cons to each method of input.

When I'm doing a quick internet search, or entering some quick text (looking up a word using stardict), then the on-screen keyboard is very quick, much quicker than the keypad, since I keep it closed the majority of the time. I'm sure the slider mechanism will also last longer.

For entering mass quantities of text or when screen real-estate is a premium, the keypad rules, IMO.

But both methods have serious flaws:

Here are problems I see with the current on-screen finger keypad:
1) Lack of a tab key. This is odd considering that it is present when using the CHR key with the keypad open.
2) No cursor keys. The entire keypad is touch-friendly except for the touch window! It's very difficult to position the cursor in the tiny spaces between text. Cursor keys would prove very useful for this.
3) Text entry window is justified left. This makes it very difficult to select the first character, or position the cursor at this character, due to the bezel.
4) Must switch between no-caps and ALL-CAPS for capital entry. It would be nice to have a 'Shift' key that shifted the next key press. The same goes for CHR.
5) Takes over the ENTIRE screen. This is unnecessary as the iphone shows.
6) Inconsistent with the keypad! This requires the extra step of learning yet another input interface (not a big task, but all of these extra tasks add up).

Here are problems I see with the hardware keypad:
1) Lack of a tab key. Seriously, Fn/Shift space would work (is this currently possible in software)?
2) Repeating key-entry with seemingly single press (a known 'bug')
3) Flat hard-to-differentiate keys. This looks attractive, but often results in
4) Lack of a key-finding bump (like j and f on modern keyboards). With this, I'm sure I would be able to enter text blindly without looking at the keypad. As it stands now, I must look at the keypad when I type the majority of the time.
5) Hard to press keys (this makes my forearm tired after continuous use).
6) Fn key on only one half of the keypad makes it awkward to enter one-off symbols on the left side.
7) Large keys! This would seem like a feature, but it often requires that the thumb move long distances to hit keys. I *think* I would prefer smaller pill-like keys closer together (like blackberry/palm-pre). This would also free up room for a small number pad, or N-Gage style buttons, or a larger d-pad.
8) Menu key is on it. It implies that if you want to use the menu in full-screen (which often happens to me) you have to go out of full-screen mode. If the menu key were on the face, this would be better. In fact, menu and window key could be combined with a canola-settings-style interface.
9) D-pad is on it. I'm officially on the side of the team that wants the d-pad on the face of the device. For quick casual use, I don't think one should have to slide open the device. I think quick operation should be possible ala iPhone.

In the end, I find both methods lacking in a few fundamental ways. I sincerely hope that Nokia hires a hardware architect that strongly considers both usability and simplicity across many use cases, rather than a limited facsimile of modern computers shrunk to a mobile device.

I'm of the belief that all of these things add up to influence the comfort of using the device. It would seem that apple/palm has mostly eliminated most of the would-be annoyances making using the iPhone/pre a joyful, slick, and easy. I think that Nokia has to do the same to appeal to the general market.


YARR!
}:^)~

Sir capt'n

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Finger keyboard all the way.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

using the finger keyboard on my n800, i use my left thumb and right index finger. using both thumbs is slow and awkward. i don't own an n810, but i think the on-screen keyboard wold be faster than the hardware keyboard.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I am now trying out pyRDesktop and InScribe keyboard.
So far it does not work for me very well.
I expected much better experience.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I can't pick just one. I prefer using the stylus/virtual keyboard on my 770 for most general stuff, but I vastly prefer using my little bluetooth keyboard when doing stuff in an Xterm or via VNC.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I use Midnight Commander in OSSO Xterm on my 770, but I usually use the stylus to pull down menus, navigate, etc.

It's a lot easier with a bluetooth keyboard, tho.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I voted for the keypad entry. The only thing which annoys me on the N810 tho, is that the d-pad is on the keyboard and I need to slide it out every time I want to use a d-pad (which is way more often than I need the actual keyboard). :(

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

Difficult to vote because I like both. Finger when only needing a few input keys. Keypad for the tough work. What I like most is not having to use either because of the good UI. Then I prefer finger as input device.

However shell wih fullscreen terminal + keypad is quite an overview compared to touchscreen input, and much quicker. Besides, my error rate is then less than any form of touchscreen input.

Localisation issues should be fixed by getting a localized keyboard layout (at least software-wise; perhaps also hardware-wise). I know in Germany the N810 sold has QWERTZ layout.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I've turned off the on-screen keyboard. Over time, I've adapted to (a) sliding out the keyboard to unlock my N810, (b) heavily using the predictive/suggested text on the screen. I find the keys to the small size, but rarely have problems -- but use a "thumb" style of typing, which easily accommodates a left-hand "pivot" for the on-screen suggested word completion.

Outside of Canola, there are few (too few) applications that are finger-friendly.... So I've typically got the stylus in-hand, and thumbing on the keyboard ... (boy, I really wish there was a gmail thumb-compatible client....)

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

If the touch screen entry would be upgraded to something like swype it would make it a strong contender at least in my eyes. I'm already quite fast at typing on the virtual keyboard, and I'm confident that with a system like swype I could write a lot faster than with a HW thumb keyboard. Of course I also have a separate BT keyboard for the heavy duty writing.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

I've got n810 and did use the keyboard occasionally, but I find I'm much faster entering text with the stylus on-screen.

Re: Preferred method of text entry poll
 

That's almost exactly my usage pattern, too. Also, I must note that, with practice, you can type mighty fast on the keyboard (esp if you need to cerrect and not use numbers much). It's not as effortless as stylus-pecking, not as quick as my all time favourite palmtop keyboard of the HP95LX, but still quite quick. Stylus has an easier speed improvement curve, but I'm not sure at all it can beat the keyboard in an average email/console scenario.