Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I agree with just about everything there (the OS sold me more than the actual hardware, for instance) except that I was sold more on the prospect that it was a REAL full-on computing device with a Linux kernel and I could even drop to a console (xterm) to execute honest-to-goodness Linux commands to actually do real work with a little device that I could easily carry everywhere (unlike a MID or a netbook). I actually would welcome Ubuntu for that reason, but otherwise--it's the maemo and Linux kernel that sold me more than anything. The hardware was secondary--a strong secondary--but secondary just the same. If it'd been running anything less open (Windows Mobile, Symbian, etc.) the hardware wouldn't even have gotten a look from me or many of the folks I'd convinced to buy the N800's all along.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

In terms of what people do on a mobile device reading complete electronic books (e-books) is a niche.

I fail to see why a iPhone 3G or iPod touch 2G would not be suitable for e-book reading while a Nokia N8x0 would be. I don't think the difference would be that big that a significant amount of people would instead buy the latter device.

Then why didn't we see the masses opting for this before or during the breakthrough of the Kindle?

Because you do not understand the definitions and are not able to imagine them applied.

Millions of people have used synchronization for several years with iTunes and their iPods. Synchronization is often server-side. For example with IMAP that is the case, and with Web 2.0 too. Google Calendar very same. UPnP-AV, DAAP, iCalendar all provide similar.

I don't see this massive e-book reading you're talking about, and if you say they use phones for that, then I wonder what size their screen is? And why for such a niche an external screen would not be suffice?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Nah, that would be "there are HJKL keys" - oh wait, that was the 70s. Maybe Harmattan devices will come with a punch card reader and there won't be any need for copy & paste: you make a typo, you start over ;-)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Nokia is a corporation and they are around for the business not for fun(even though I am sure their research labs are). Profits need to be shown at the table.
That is not what the community over here has collected for..., we should remind ourselves.. we are users and remain separate from the corporation that creates the products we use(yet somehow becoming a part of them too). Nokia is smart. They released a device open enough to attract outside developers and innovative thinkers and are going to be able to reap all the fruits of this playing field in their new products.

With the talent available around this board there very easily could be a custom designed tablet with an OS as well to boot...Anyone want to pull off a Craig here? or put feelers out to some enterprising business person in china? Ha.. We could form the ITT crowd.. float a company and define what the product should be, release specs to open bidders and then just go ahead and buy those products.... and have our own OS and our own development team ..and if the devices come out close to what standards are over here, We even think of selling into the open market by way of individual outreach to support the developers over here and make it worth while to stick around...
I should stop rambling...but am surely not smoking the same stuff as Nokia is anyways.

The new Nokia device would commercially be in the best interests of Nokia and I would love to have an indication of the price they will come in at. But,I am thoroughly disappointed with the specs shown and going to reserve my spending not for that device but an alternative tablet which I hope will be available in a few months.When I need a phone upgrade I will possibly look at that time.. The tablets utility value is tremendous and one that can not be replaced by a device with a smaller screen.

..only Ukko will know
..suprise suprise ..Nokia has just announced a tablet..
...and the dreams will begin again....

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Where would the external screen come from? Would we carry it in our back pockets?

This e-book thing is a pretty BIG niche, I think. And as long as the Kindle is black and white, there is a big opening for competition.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Pretty much anything people do on a mobile device can be called a niche. Playing games is a niche. Listening to music is a niche. Using PIM is a niche. So, I am not sure what exactly are you trying to say by calling book reading a niche.

Physical screen size and pixel count.

Why do you call Kindle a breakthrough? I have not seen a single Kindle being used so far. I am seeing lots of Sony readers, a few Chinese models, but where is Kindle?

Meanwhile, tens of millions plugged their Chinese music players into a PC as USB mass storage devices and copied music directly, without having to "sync".

This is some bunch of buzzwords I, as a user, do not feel like caring about. Additinally, very few of them occur in real life. Yea, I had to use IMAP on few occasions. It is that thing that makes Modest hang and crash, isn't it? :)

(slowly, as if explaining to a child) They use whatever phones they have got, usually WinMobile devices with 640x480 or 320x240 screens (Glofish being pretty popular, also HTC/iMate/etc.). It is not possible to use "external screen" because there are no "external screens" on a subway train. I am not even sure where you are coming from with this concept.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I guess you managed to pick up a G1? ;)

I think this is an undertone that a lot of us are currently feeling. The device doesn't impress (at the moment!!) but as tablet users we all want one.

Imagine a hardcore Palm Treo user seeing then next best thing from Palm is the Palm Pre, I bet every one of them is salivating at the prospect. There isn't that perception with the tablet. Maybe that's because Nokia are holding their cards very close or maybe because the next tablet is more of an evolution rather than an evolution? Either way, we are members of a great community that is built around these tablets and without a doubt, we will all at least contemplate buying the next device regardless of what it has to offer.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

That is really important, good news. Front page of maemo.org news.

I just wanted to quote it again for anyone who missed it.

Wow.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I'd predict that suicide and homicide rates would rise.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I saw a Kindle during my recent two-week cruise. It was impressive, and I wanted one.

And several of my friends have them, and rave about them.

You have probably read that newspapers are folding left and right. What are their readers going to do? They are going to be reading online, more and more. A lot of them are getting Kindles. I don't think they are going to rush out and get an N900.

I long ago invented a maxim that I have never really tried to put into practice, but it is still good I think:

"One way to win is to go where there is no competition."

That is where Amazon went with the size of the Kindle (and black and white), I think. It found a profitable niche.

A niche that is not being explored today is that once taken by the Rex 6000, a credit-card sized near-computer I bought in 2000. You could download from the Internet and do other cool things. Today's equivalent would be wireless, etc. That would be a niche where there is no competition right now.

A color Kindle-sized book reader etc. would be another place where there is no competition right now.

And then there is the Internet Tablet niche, being vacated by Nokia. They had a spot where there was no competition and are abandoning it, for now anyway.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Trying to play devils advocate to qoles comment but combining the departments will bring exactly what to the Maemo initiative? Not wanting to be abrasive but can you elaborate on what we should expect to see as the new Maemo Devices is to be "even better and faster"? Will we see more community involvement from Nokia employee's? (something that I would love to see), will we see more patches/software? will we see more hardware?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I am not sure what use one can have for a device that can only display texts bought from Amazon. Maybe that is why I have not seen any Kindles? :)

I think you are swapping cause and effect here. The newspapers are folding because people are reading more and more online. And they are no using Kindles for that. Whether they will use Kindles for that is still an open question. Will see.

There is competition in the ebook niche. Ebook readers are becoming a commodity with many Chinese models available. And guess what? They all support open formats! No need to buy from Amazon!

That niche was initially occupied by PDAs. Whether Nokia is still planning to play there is an open question as well, really.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Having come from Palm, I started reading on a Zire31, 160x160 about 3". It wasn't great, but it had its' advantages. However, I quickly upgraded to a Palm TX 480x320 little smaller than the N8x0 screen. Much better than on the Zire31. Two reasons: 1) Screen size and 2)Screen resolution. The tablets are even better.

Limiting the discussion to ebooks doesn't do it justice. There is a large percentage of users that read ebooks, pdfs, daily bible readings, email, websites, etc. There is just a lot of reading done in this format. On the whole more reading than on smartphones in my opinion. The screen size matters for reading. Whatever your comfortable text size is, if the screen size is reduced, the font size/zoom needs to be increased to compensate. Increase the font size = less text on the screen. Less text = more tapping/scrolling/paging. More tapping/scrolling/paging = less time reading. Less time reading = less enjoyment. Less enjoyment = less use. Less use = less reason to purchase.

The current tablets hit a sweet spot (at least for me, and it seems for a lot of others as well). They are easily portable and fit a decent amount of text on the screen. Reading on the Zire31 was tap..tap..tap..tap..tap, on the TX tap.....tap......tap.....tap, the N800 tap.....tap......tap......tap. In short more time spent reading, less time spent tapping. For portable reading, the current tables are borderline too small and borderline too big. In other words, just right.

I could read on my cannon camera (I have a text reader for it) if I were so inclined. The 2" screen is way to small to really do that though.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Sounds like more reason to retain a useful D-pad or, even better, adding a scrolling wheel (say, like on the N800's top, on the very top-right side opposite of the - and + buttons).

A touchscreen is all nice and well, but a small device with convenient and ergonomically placed buttons and a scroll wheel would be MUCH more useful than a pure touchscreen device.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Good Luck Tex

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

In my experience - reading is my main use for a mobile device, and my route is Palm Vx (160x160) -> Palm TE (320x320) -> Loox 720 (640x480) -> NIT - d-pad is not comfortable for one hand reading, and scroll wheel is also less good than a button. All reading really needs is one button on the side of the device. Does not matter left, right, top, bottom, especially when fbreader gives you all possible rotation options.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

If one nokian could step in and say something to put all the assumptions and speculations to rest but alas all thier input has worsen the case.
without announcing anything they only have to tell us the leaks are not true and thats all the community is waiting for

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I just put my money where my mouth is. I bought a new-in-the-sealed-box N800 on eBay for $150 (free shipping). My current one is perfectly good (thank you, Nokia, for building these Tablets so damn well!) so the new one will just sit on the shelf as back-up.

The seller has 2 more available, and I would guess will have more to sell since his history shows he's been sellling them for a while.

(Would I have done this if I knew Nokia was planning to release another Tablet this year? No.)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

i have an n800 that i got for $199. that's all i've spent. i don't have a cell phone or a data plan, and that's why i wanted this device. nearly two years later there is still no device for that price or less that i'd rather own. amazing. i like the specs on the new device, but i wouldn't use the 3g, and i still won't pay more than 150 or 200.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I'm wholeheartedly agreeing with the recent posts. I really, REALLY don't want, don't need and certainly don't want to pay for.. a cell phone radio in my new tablet. Looks like I'm sticking to my N800 and possibly looking forward to the Pandora instead. Sheesh.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I just think this needs to be repeated.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

for my part i had a loooot of PDAs.

- Palms : Zire1, Cliés SJ20, SJ30, NX70V, NX73V, NX80V, UX50, TH55, VZ 90, Palm TX
- Pocket PCs : Toshiba E310, Asus A620, A620 BT, Fujitsu Loox 720, Acer N310, Qtek 9000, HTC X7500, HTC Diamond Pro
- Some others : Zaurus 3100, 800, 860, NTT Sigmarion III, Newton 2000 & 2100 ... iPhone edge, iPhone 3G, Nokia E90, N800, N810

... Ok, i'm really insane ...

But the N800 & N810 are the BEST for eBook reading.
And Maemo is the BEST OS for a pocket device I ever used.
And N810 is the best hardware of all these PDAs, even if it's not perfect at all.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So, maybe you should get a life. ;)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Hahaha !
Don't worry, I have one (boyfriend, friends, pets, nice job ...) :D

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I want a life. :(

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I use my N800 everyday with a car mount and BT GPS. I have a selection of useful apps that I refer to frequently and I can honestly say I now depend on the N800 in my day to day life. With that said I spent the past day and a half trying to determine if I would be handicapped by the 3.5", smaller screen...

Since I depend on fast task switching from the touch screen I run most apps in a dang window that is less than 3.5" anyway. :eek:

So it all will depend on the GUI and how tasks can be quickly switched or if a task navigator can be accessed with one touch while a full screen app is open...

I have recently used a Qt app on the N800 that brings up a transparent touch screen overlay with a simple screen gesture. That would be superb if gestures were used through out Maemo 5 for task navigation. :cool:

(BTW, using the hardware button on the N800 to bring up open tasks or the home screen requires so much pressure it will cause the tablet to swivel on the car mount angling the screen so it can't be viewed. )

The number one thing that I think will affect all of us is not screen size, D-pad, stylus, or keyboard... it will be price. :)

@Nokia peeps...

Now that Maemo is on a high priced phone will it have a PIM suite installed or will this forum spend the next 3 months trying to explain to new or potentially new users why it doesn't...

Just wondering. :)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Yeah, but with that list above, you're mostly geek. It's time for acceptance. You have a life so I think you can handle it. We're here to help if you need us.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Simple: the format of the screen of a mobile device is not optimized for reading large amounts of texts. T9 is not optimized for large amounts of user input text either.


Ah, so apparently that makes a world of difference according to you (I Doubt It Though). Now, what font would you suggest we use to read our e-books?

Because that is the way I perceive it throughout the media. It appears to be the defacto standard, the device which makes the breakthrough for this kind of purpose. Not here, we don't even have a local Amazon store. But we have a small corporation which competes with the Kindle. In any case, the point is that the screen is larger (acceptable) than either a mobile phone or a N8x0. I wouldn't want to use either of those 2 to read large amounts of text because it is not comfortable to do so.

Music. iTunes does much more than music. For music it is mostly 1-way sync (except if the iPod/iPhone also has on-board iTunes). But it also supports stuff like iCalendar and such. And, maybe 'rsync' rings a bell. It'd be a perfect candidate to easily keep your music in sync with your DAP.

Your role is not 'user' in this discussion between us. Normal users indeed do not care about any of those technical terms (in your words "buzzwords") but they will not see these words either because the synchronization works in such way integrated that it Just Works (tm).

Not here, nor in Mutt, nor on E71 e-mail client, nor in PINE, nor in mailx, nor in Mozilla Thunderbird, nor in Ximian Evolution, nor in Apple Mail, ...

That is why I said foldable. Maybe you should look up on that. The concept would be that you have one in your bag in the size of a netbook or Kindle, but more like a dumb terminal, like a portable DVR (which go for 50 USD). Compared to an average mobile smartphone those make an impact when screen size matters whereas this difference is neglectible if you keep N8x0 vs average mobile smartphone in mind. In your eyes the difference might be incredible, but normal people will nowadays think in standard formats:

1) mobile phone
2) netbook
3) laptop
4) pc
5) tv (widescreen)

For each of these they have a picture in mind with certain features, including an approx screen size. 'Internet Tablet' is not, was not, and will never be part of the list for the casual user. Its 'weird', and the size difference between #1 and #2 is too vague to draw clear advantages.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Very true, it would depend on how they have the GUI setup, if it's anything like Maemo is now then a 3.5 screen would be a severe drawback. But if they made it more like the iPhone (the GUI hides away or a physical button is used to switch out) then it wouldn't be as bad.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Does anyone think I'm a super geek?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Moblin's got a pretty spiffy interface that might work pretty well in that regard.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

If this device is multi-touch is the device I would buy. Not the new iPhone 3.0 with 256 MB RAM 3.2MP, not N97 with 128 MB RAM 5MP, but this Linux device with 256 RAM 5MP and good OMAP3processor. Because I could have OpenOffice, FireFox, full Flash and other programs not available on iPhone and Symbian. And a very good display resolution 800x480. I would prefer a 4" display instead of 3.5", but even smaller the device is more portable. Good step Nokia. Nokia is still in the game on top of Apple and others!

And yes, if Peter confirms what was my logic that because this device does not have D-pad means it needs to have some sort of directional stuff accomplished with multi-touch, I did a good reverse engineering thinking :-)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

allnameswereout, it's rare that someone can aggregate so many points with which I disagree!

I'll respond to your question about what font fms suggests for e-book reading: I use NokiaSans, 18 point, bold. But that doesn't mean fms does, nor that you should. Likewise you're way off base supposing that screen size and pixel density don't "really" matter to us eBook readers. Maybe it doesn't matter to some of you (which amazes me, but if you say so ...), but I assure you that to many of us it matters immensely.

When you say eBook reading is a niche, I agree with whomever (fms?) said most Tablet uses are niches. That's what's so great about the Tablets: One Device, Many Niches!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Overall pixel count and screen size makes our NIT are for me the best PDA for ebooks reading. It wouldn't be so good on 3,5 inches.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Sans 16 regular font myself. Black background, font color may change depending on the reading conditions.

I do love those handy little + - buttons on the N800 fits comfortably in my hand easy to click (or tap) a button and keep on reading. Now if only someone could port PalmFiction to maemo, that was the best ereader I have used.

Hands down the N800 is the best reading device I have used. A kindle will never replace it, why - no back light, I do a lot of reading in low light conditions. I suspect this point alone will keep the kindle from being a breakthrough item.

For the record, I have read at a minimum 500+ books in the last 3 years, exclusively on pocketable handheld devices. It's easy and enjoyable. In that time I have probably read less than 5 regular books.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I surely did not by any Nokia device because of Maemo, I bought it in spite of maemo.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

you don't like Maemo ?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I like that it is Linux and I can make it do what I like.

I hate the interface and always have, but I sure love Linux in my pocket, beats carrying around a furby... Maemo fits my needs enough, but its not ideal.

http://penguinbait.com/zelda.png

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Not for me (as long as the price isn't something REALLY oddball). I'm pretty sure my biggest decision points will be the keyboard, sync software, and my diet app. Of course, the third one goes away if the android on ubuntu project translates easily to Maemo.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Expect better execution. Nokia (dis)organizational considerations are not something you want to (try to) understand.

There's a thread started for this topic - let's try to put comments there and not in this very long thread.