Re: N900 specs revealed
 

But the leaks are true, or at least mostly true -- they don't reveal the whole truth, but what they do reveal is mostly if not entirely correct. So the Nokians can't tell us it's not true. (Well, they could, but they'd lose major credibility when the device was released and we all see that they lied.) On the other hand, they can't tell us the whole truth, or even openly acknowledge that it is mainly true. What are they left with? only telling us that it's not the whole truth, or reminding us of specific known facts not included.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

That's what bugs me about supposedly having to join maemo.org.

I'm a Linux fan, and I bought my N800 because it was Linux and because it could do a lot of cool things. I had never heard of Maemo.

To me, Maemo is a cool organization perhaps, though it tends to arrogance, as does Nokia. There are lots of good organizations in the world, but I don't join all of them.

And I'm not interested in joining Maemo. Or in voting. I'm also not interested in joining the Young Republicans. I'm not young and I'm not a Republican. The idea of joining either just doesn't appeal to me.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I'll vote next time cause we're stuck here, assuming another tablet-sized device comes along, or is at least announced, in the next few months. I didn't like the merger in the first place, and, if a new tablet does not come along, I'll firmly believe the con was in.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Problems with Maemo's committee, problems with this release... I'm searching for some good news.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Don't take this the wrong way, because I certainly don't mean it in an alienating "go somewhere else" way ... but I get the feeling you'd be a perfect consumer for the Moses SmartQ5 and SmartQ7. Plain tablet, runs linux (could probably be made to run KDE). The Q5 is a 5" tablet, and the Q7 is a 7" tablet.

And, to a certain extent, all of the N800 enthusiasts, who care more about "a pocket Linux machine" more than Maemo itself, should at least look at the Q5 ... with the right Linux flavor on it, it might make a good landing place if Nokia really does drop the 4"+ pocketable tablet form factor.

(and, specifically say N800 because it doesn't have a keyboard ... so probably not as happy for the N810 enthusiasts)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Has anybody seen Nokia CEO Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo's live interview with Mossberg today?

One line about "MIMO", LoL

Oh and the price of the phone that is not a Maemo device... $699 :eek::eek::eek:

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

The problem is that nokia is not confirming or denying a tablet in the future. I think the community has been led to believe that this whole thing is about tablets and now nokia does a U turn. They definitely need to do some explaining.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I think this needs a different thread.

I did not get to understand what was the answer to the maemo question. does anyone have a link to the video?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I don't see why that's a problem, wrt to my suggestion. Look at the device. See if it meets your needs/desires, and at a good price point. If it does, then it doesn't matter what Nokia does or doesn't do with the tablet line up: you've got an affordable device that does what you want, no matter what Nokia does or doesn't do.

You don't owe Nokia any false loyalty, any more than they owe you some aspect of loyalty. Go where the product you want/need/can-afford is. Vote with your feet, post over in the competitors forum (or in this one) that you did (if you did), and then enjoy your new gadget. If Nokia notices that they're losing enough customers over their direction (or over their lethargy, or over their ...), then they'll realize that they need to change how they do business.

If they don't notice, or if they notice that they're losing such a small business segment that it isn't going to change how they do business, then you're not throwing money at a company that doesn't give you the devices you want, on a schedule you want, and with a level of care that you want.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Well its like being ditched by your girlfriend. You know u have to move on, but initially u are in a state of denial & hope. I had no idea that we would be discussing about nokia and nokia will stop producing tablets. It takes sometime for it to sink in.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I am really liking my n810 right now. I enjoy the hardware keyboard. If a Pandora console shows up thats probably where I am heading. If a new tablet similar to the 810 shows up with a screen at least equal to the 810, I will continue to be a loyal owner of what would be my 4th internet tablet (770/800/810/?900?)

Beyond that I haven't really thought about it

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

He didn't answer it.. He just re-directed Walt's attention to the N97...
Kind o' like when Grandpa pulled a quarter out of your ear when you asked him what that "F" word he said meant. :D

Walt apparently pronounced it Mimo and Endgadget cleaned up the transcript...

I posted it here because I thought it was relevant to the discussion. My bad :)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

That kinda doesn't matter to me. I hold some nostalgia for Nokia and Apple, but each at their own time, they have failed to give me the device I wanted on a schedule that I wanted.

2.5-3 years ago, Apple came up with 2 devices that were neat, but not what I wanted. And they pretty much made it clear that they wouldn't ever be the devices I wanted (no access to the unix layer, closed and semi-closed application ecosystem). So, rather than buying the iPhone or iPod Touch, I looked for a device that DID give me what I wanted. And that's how I wound up with an N800, and later an N810.

Great choice, and I loved it while it lasted. But last year, I realized that what I wanted, and to some degree needed, was 1 pocketable device ... not two. For that, I needed Nokia to give me a Maemo phone. At that time, it didn't look like they'd be going that direction, certainly not any time soon (and, I was right: it has been a YEAR). So I started to look elsewhere. Though that process, I wound up with a G1.

The fact that Nokia may now release the product I wanted doesn't make me regret buying the G1. It was the right decision for me at the time, and it mostly does the job I want (more so than a 2 device solution was). Waiting around for company A to get off their duffs while company B has a perfectly useful solution is just a waste of false loyalty, IMO.

Do what makes sense NOW, not what MIGHT makes sense 3 months from now, IF Nokia maybe does what you want.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

No. i meant that it need a discussion by itself.No offense.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

@johnkzin

I think a lot of people are already doing what you suggest, looking in other directions. However, I thnk most of them are hoping Nokia comes up with something that will meet their needs. Why? Not out of false loyalty. Perhaps because there is a sizable community & support in place here. A Nokia/Maemo product is more of a known quantity, in terms of things like hacking, quality, etc. Making the jump (yet again for some) is not a decision to be made hastily or lightly. There will be some verbal agonizing to go with it.

I'll admit the major part of my decision to purchase a N800 was due to the hardware, not the software. Once I determined that the software wasn't a dealbreaker, I bought it.

In a couple months, you may see me here asking if we can forward-port (? is that a real term) Maemo4/OS2008 onto a newly released Nokia device. What I have seen so far of fremantle, frankly for me is a strike against a new device.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I like this post so well I thought it deserved re-posting. You put it so well; my Tablet is "the first thing I've purchased that I felt was new every day."

Unlike you, I came for the hardware -- but I guess I could say that I stayed for the software and the way this community has supported/advanced it.

I really hope Nokia comes out with a new Tablet, not just for my use but to keep this forum/group from splintering. (Sort of like Reggie bringing back the old forum styles!)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Okay I am done crying ... when can I buy my unlocked N900 directly from Nokia?
:D:D

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Even if it comes late as I'm trying to catch up with this monster-thread once again. :)

Good luck to you!

I once had a phone screening with Google, California, but they didn't take me. The other "dark side" besides Microsoft. ;)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I can't understand how can they refuse to take texrat (feh!).
If I were one of those recruiters, I'd recognize the talent :-)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Good morning guys ! this is my 100th post !!!

I'm very surprised to read here that a lot of members are not so much interested in Maemo for itself and that, for them, it's just a different flavor of Linux.

I just find it very unfair for the people who are developping and maintaining Maemo.

I tried many Linuxes on laptop, notebooks and even on Sharp Zaurus ... and let me tell you that MAEMO IS AMAZING.
Why ?
Because it is really designed for handheld use, and this makes a huge difference in term of :
- power management (crappy on Zaurus, amazing on N8xx)
- ergonomy
- reliability
- snappyness (overall reactivity)

Of course i didn't try Android yet ... but when I read some comments here I have the feeling that sometime we behave like spoiled children.
:(

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Congratulations! ;)

Spoiled we are, both by incredible hardware (just think of it: the N800 was introduced in early 2007 and still, two and a half years later, is the best piece of mobile computing for many people here) and equally amazing software. (I agree that many aspects of Maemo, like power management, multitasking etc, are a dream come true.)

But then: what's so bad about being spoiled? I want them to keep spoiling me with the same quality of hardware and software for years to come. I don't want it to end. I don't want the normal, so-so user experience that other gadgets provide.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Hardware wise the tablets are the best possible laptop replacement. Since the 770 was released in 2005, no one has come near to such wonderful hardware.

Why peter tell us? Why drop the tablet? Did they not sell very well. I understand that until now it was a side project. That is fine. It is good that maemo is finally moving mainstream. But how hard is it for you guys to remove the guts of the n810 and replace them with the current hardware addtions? We really dont want anything else. Just give us that.

Please

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Heh.. And an effective way to deal with spoiled children is to ignore their whining. ;)


YARR!
}:^)~
Canarupt

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Thanks for pointing that out. I (mistakenly) take Maemo for granted. Having never used Linux before, I've just figured this is what modern-day Linux is like.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Hmmm GeraldKo ... huh, are you just kidding me or is it true ?

Anyway, to my experience, other Linuxes are a lot less user friendly on small laptops and handhelds than Maemo on N8xx.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

C'est vrai.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

How is that compared to the default, and why did you pick this? Is the default good, and comparable to the quality of a Kindle or iPhone? You want the default settings as tuned as possible to the general public (not niches or special cases) while giving those with disability an easy option to opt for their optimization.

I realize they might matter to some people but it is called making sacrifices. I, and I believe neither does Nokia, do not believe the market for e-book readers of the N8x0 screen size and resolution is that high.

I don't want niche niches on my device. I want to have killer applications. Applications which are the best job on a device. Not 300 video players and 400 audio players. Not 20 browsers. Too much choice is not good, and as I've visited K-Mart, Fry's and Media Markt I've experienced this myself. For mobile device I want 1 very good browser as default which suits most people needs. Yes, I want you to be able to use Skyfire or MicroB but not as default browser. Likewise, I don't want to read a lot of text on my mobile devices because the screens are too small, no matter how good the font is. For that I prefer a bigger screen (Kindle/netbook or bigger), or good ol' paper. You'd be surprised how small one book is, and that is most I can read in a limited amount of time anyway. Yes, you can have a lot of with you on a mobile device, that has its advantage too. Then ofcourse some people might prefer different, and those people I want to give their right to change that (but there are always limits!). Meanwhile, I want others (Nokia, Apple, etc) to research what the best font is for the job. And when there is room I want to integrate my own applications and use cases on the device. That 400 different audio players phenomenom is something which was Captain Obvious in Linux 10 years ago, and to me it is a sign of an immature platform. We see something similar now because 1) hardware size (physical, memory, storage, cpu cycles) is smaller 2) its interactive device 3) its mobile device 4) it tries to do a lot of things at same time 5) all that, on Linux (not OSX or S60 or ...). So that means you really have to adapt the software and hardware a lot, so you cannot simply take all of Linux with GNU and put simply Debian on the device. Its too bloated, and not specially made for the specifications of the hardware and goals of the device. Now that was mostly software. The hardware limits are different. You can work around them, and one of the ways to work around it in our user case is using an external screen. Because even if you still want a swiss army knife sacrifices have to be made, and will be made. I do understand you might not like some of the choices being made! But we have to live with the fact that this is Nokia's choice.

It has been long clear that many of you folks, including benny1967 and daperl, are not happy with the direction of Nokia's Maemo products. Why not design your own hardware and use Maemo/Mer as software stack and make your own swiss army knife, leaving Nokia making their NokimAE(mo)Fone with capacitive screen, Linux, multi pointer X... I can't wait... while clearly some dislike or hate this direction.

Also keep in mind sometimes its better to not opt for a swiss army knife. If you're truelly an e-book freak, this is your main purpose, and find something like Kindle too big then consider buying a dedicated, small e-book reader. Such as Readius. That has a foldable screen.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I have tried many Linuxes on notebooks, netbooks, and laptops, though not on handhelds, and I have found them pretty user friendly.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Those 4 features all my mobile devices have. Even my old S40 phone had that. It only would crash 1 time a month, and taking out and in the battery would reboot the thing then. For the rest, it Just Worked. Ofcourse, it did not do much.

So, hardware is different too. Zaurus also had different hardware. Yes, compared to default ROM for Zaurus Maemo is indeed amazing but the general public compares Maemo to:

* S60
* Windows Mobile
* iPhoneOS
* Android

Or rather, they compare an end product (with hardware and software) to another product. And, usually they compare the out of the box experiences with each other. So the out of the box experience and default settings are very, very important.

What you will see is for example G1 or G2 compared to Nokia N900. Or the new iPhone compared to Palm Pre. What OS they run is not even mentioned in name. The general public will not care the device runs Linux or not either, because it Just Works. A minority cares, and that minority wants to be able to modify the thing under the hood. Some kind of legal Cydia community.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I don't see the point of this discussion about default font & font size.

What is nice with eBook is that you can change these fonts and sizes according to your taste and your eyes. The bigger the screen, the more words you can display, or the bigger fonts you can reasonably use ... and the more comfortable you'll be. And so, eBook reading is a lot more comfortable on our NIT than on iPhone.

Obviously if pixel size is too big, small fonts will not be very smooth.
But you can compare with Sony eReader : 6" and 800x600 pixels.
If we get a tablet in 7" with 800x480, pixels are bigger, yes, but i believe it's still ok, especially if you consider that on a tablet's color screen, you can use very efficient sub-pixel font smoothing technology, not available on Kindle & eReader.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Sorry, not gonna work. There are *always* many, sometimes competing applications for the same purpose. It might be not what you're looking for, but "In varietate concordia" is one of the defining characteristics of OSS. The One Killer Application To Rule Them All is certainly a working business model, but not for platforms build around OSS.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Really? If I could have RedHat/Centos/ubuntu/ I would take any of those three over maemo. I want real linux, not watered down. Why do you feel bad for the people developing maemo, and please why are we spoiled children.

This is my 2681 post, do I get a congrats too?? Maybe if you were treated like a beta tester for maemo software for three years you may feel differently?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

It somewhat saddens me that I get thanked for a joke and not for what I think are more useful contributions.
I guess I should start trolling more if karma points are the ticket for the next discount program :p
And, please, don't remove the thanks anyways :D
BTW, I use joe as a text editor (when I'm using a terminal/ssh session), so to cut'n'paste I actually have to CTRL+K B, move to the end of the block, CTRL+K K, move to the paste position and CTRL+K C........

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

What is funny about what some are saying on this thread is that what Nokia has been saying about tablets for years, that the screen size of the tablets is fantastic, is suddenly being said to be trivial, picky, and characteristic of a niche product.

You should have been saying that when people where talking about iPods and iTouches, you would have been on their side of the issue, not the side of we who supported tablets.

This is a notable shift in rhetoric. It is alien to what ITT has always stood for. No wonder ITT had to be downplayed. This was not simply a move to make ITT and maemo.org more efficient -- this was a carefully planned move to change course completely while pretending that nothing unusual was going on.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

On a good platform there is one default profile and there are profiles with optimized settings made for this to keep the amount of people who need to fine tune their ideal settings to a minimum. The type of screen also matters in that regard (the greasy screens are a bit harder to read from but they work better in the sun; again, sacrifices).

They exist, but they are hidden from the masses because they don't care about this. If they are not hidden to the masses and the masses are not guided you get a chaotic mess of confusement, or people with too much time figuring out what is best for them. So instead of having an ICQ Messenger, an AIM Messenger, an MSN Messenger, IRC chat, Yahoo Chat you have by default Pidgin and it does all of that reasonably well. If I install Ubuntu Desktop I get Pidgin. Maybe I'd like a dialog when I install Windows, to ask me if I want Mozilla Firefox, Opera or Microsoft Internet Explorer. I wouldn't pick the latter then, and at the very least I want the choice to have applications use something else than MSIE or Trident to render their stuff. And instead of having 100 choices you need to make clear to the customer why your product is better. For example because it contains less fat, or because it has some official label, or some random buzzword.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Boy does this sound like an Apple commercial :D

And in what way is this different than what you have now ? You have one mail app, one browser, one AIM, one <you name it> installed from Nokia repos. For everything else the daring souls can go to extras.

EDIT: The only thing missing is that perhaps application manager does not show the maemo.org ratings and comments for a particular package.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Nokia told us in September 2008 that the term "internet tablet" would not be used any more for a future Maemo 5 device. Of course they didn't say then that there'd be a different form factor. It was more along the lines of "the device can do so much more than just browsing the web, calling it an internet tablet would be misleading."

At that time, of course, hardly anybody expected that it was the "tablet"-part they actually didn't want to continue, not the "internet"-part.

Then, IIRC (and don't rely on me too much, I remember a lot of stuff lately that appears to never have happened), Reggie was told about this and agreed that when there wouldn't be a device marketed as "internet tablet", a forum named internettablettalk doesn't make sense any longer.

So: Yes, all of this was planned because as of September 2008 it was known there wouldn't be any more internet tablets. It's not a wicked plot behind the scenes, it's official and well known.

The only thing that was not known is that they'd not only change the name for marketing reasons, but also the form factor.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Quote: Maybe if you were treated like a beta tester for maemo software for three years you may feel differently?

Now i am beginning to think of one thing since there is only beta softwares on the current diablo devices are they going to use the same on the N900 phone or Fremantle comes with softwares that are not beta?
Is the community going to continue fixing the left overs?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Somewhat off the path of discussion....

I wonder if many here are having trouble conceptualizing the size of a 3.5" screen. It sounds really small, but this is an illusion, it is quite adequately sized. To help, consider that it is pretty much the same size as Maemo on the NIT in windowed mode.

For those against the purchase of a n900, I urge you to try using your NIT in windowed mode for a day, to get a feel for the size, and then determining if this is one compromise that you're still unwilling to make.

I'm very interested in hearing the results!


YARR!
}:^)~
3.5" Corrupt

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I never found a handheld device running Linux as smoothly and pleasantly as Maemo on N8xx.
I can understand that you may consider Maemo as a castrated Linux ... maybe you would prefer a device with a "full" Linux and a UI not really usable on small screens, a power management that would give you a generous 2 to 3 hours battery life at best, and most of the numerous applications in the repositories that would be unusable because of display or power issues.

Today, having a very small handheld or even pocketable computer still implies some sacrifices. Maemo is an OS extraordinary well-balanced between size, function, power, ergonomy, battery life ...

By chance, now, if you really need a full linux in a very small device, you can find a UMID and try to install your favorite Linux flavor on it. The user experience would not be the same at all, but it may be more suitable to your needs !

Sorry if the words "spoiled children" hurted you ... i didn't intend to hurt anybody ... but when people whine because they just cannot get what is still impossible to get ... these are the first word that comes to my mind.

Congrats for your 2681th post too !!!:D