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-   -   N900 specs revealed (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=29151)

switchfiend 2009-05-25 20:19
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
If this leaked picture is actually of the tablet:

http://media.cellpassion.com/post/14...s_nokrover.JPG

Then I really question the decision to shrink the display, as it looks like the current sized screen could still fit (based on the amount of space between the screen and the edge of the device).


http://www.cellpassion.com/news/2009...et-tablet.aspx

sachin007 2009-05-25 20:19
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 290056)
That's likely true. I can only say that I am the opposite. I do not like full screen. I do not use full screen. I do not like or use any app that insists upon being full screen.

Full screen gets in the way of quickly bouncing between applications.
May be this is off topic... but that exactly is what the switcher hardware key is for. Why duplicate it when you can do it easily with your thumb?

sachin007 2009-05-25 20:22
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchfiend (Post 290057)
If this leaked picture is actually of the tablet:

http://media.cellpassion.com/post/14...s_nokrover.JPG

Then I really question the decision to shrink the display, as it looks like the current sized screen could still fit (based on the amount of space between the screen and the edge of the device).


http://www.cellpassion.com/news/2009...et-tablet.aspx
Looks like it is still running maemo 4!

switchfiend 2009-05-25 20:25
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Based on the recentness of the Maemo 5 beta release, I'd have to assume that the folks working on the hardware for the next tablet were using Maemo 4 for at least a good portion of the development of it.

SD69 2009-05-25 20:25
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson (Post 290042)
To me, it's not a surprise. If they're launching on T-mobile USA, they must have EDGE, because T-mo's 3G coverage is still rather limited; even if they were going for AT&T, EDGE would still be likely. That means, in practice, a GSM-capable radio. What wasn't known was whether initial software would support it, and if not, whether devices shipped with voiceless software would be upgradeable yo voice in the future.
Check this for your city:

http://www.tmonews.com/2009/05/more-3g-more-3g/

T-mo is using Nokia's remote manageable base stations and are evidently timing their first T-Mo US 3G cellphone to the network buildout.

Thesandlord 2009-05-25 20:30
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
One of the best draws of Maemo is emulation. Without a dpad, its going to be almost impossible (aka iPhone). Goodbye n900...

Don't want to read all 20 pages of speculation.

GeraldKo 2009-05-25 20:34
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 290056)
...I do not like full screen. I do not use full screen. ...

Full screen gets in the way of quickly bouncing between applications.
Just curious: what do you use the Tablet for?

luso 2009-05-25 20:34
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
I actually like the N900 screen size. I was waiting for the release on N97 to replace my N95 and now I will wait instead for this N900 to replace the N95.

Today I use very little my N800, as it is too big for my pocket (I have small pockets) and the screen a bit too small to browse the net (i use my 7" tablet most of the time, it is comfortable enough to fully replace the pc).

Most smart devices in the market have the screen either 3.5" or 7" (or bigger).
I believe Nokia will later release a 7" tablet with Maemo. It would complement this N900.

benny1967 2009-05-25 20:35
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchfiend (Post 290057)
If this leaked picture is actually of the tablet:

http://media.cellpassion.com/post/14...s_nokrover.JPG
what kind of a keyboard is this? why would they do that?!?

switchfiend 2009-05-25 20:40
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 290071)
what kind of a keyboard is this? why would they do that?!?
To me that keyboard looks like a slightly more cramped version of the N97 keyboard (the layout is the same, but the buttons are just smushed together).

As I've heard nothing but disappointment about typing on the N97, I don't find that comforting; although to be frank, I found the keyboard on the N810 to be unuseable (which was one of the main reasons I got rid of it after a few weeks and went back to my N800).

vvaz 2009-05-25 20:42
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchfiend (Post 290057)
If this leaked picture is actually of the tablet:

http://media.cellpassion.com/post/14...s_nokrover.JPG
Shopped. There is bar on the left which was removed in current maemo incarnation :)

switchfiend 2009-05-25 20:45
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvaz (Post 290074)
Shopped. There is bar on the left which was removed in current maemo incarnation :)
I hope that's the case.

While overall, I think it looks more in line with other Nokia devices (something I never felt about the N810), I think that keyboard looks terrible.

This would be all the more sad, as the E75 apparently has a really well-regarded keyboard (although it's too tall to fit in the space the N900 keyboad appers to fit in).

benny1967 2009-05-25 20:52
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by switchfiend (Post 290073)
As I've heard nothing but disappointment about typing on the N97, I don't find that comforting; although to be frank, I found the keyboard on the N810 to be unuseable (which was one of the main reasons I got rid of it after a few weeks and went back to my N800).
I got used to th N810 keyboard eventually, but it's still far from perfect. They must know that in Finland! (What kind of fingers do they have?) That's why I'd hoped for a better, slightly larger keyboard, not a smaller one. :(

spock 2009-05-25 20:55
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Yeah I'm quite worried about the keyboard...

spock 2009-05-25 20:56
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Texrat: Maybe you can use your n800/n810 as a dedicated GPS/car computer? (Since I assume you already have one). I know I'm going to repurpose my n810 as ... something ... when I replace it (possibly car GPS, or nightstand computer/alarm clock).

Benson 2009-05-25 20:58
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD69 (Post 290065)
Check this for your city:

http://www.tmonews.com/2009/05/more-3g-more-3g/

T-mo is using Nokia's remote manageable base stations and are evidently timing their first T-Mo US 3G cellphone to the network buildout.
Yay! :D
I gets mah 3Gs in Q3!

TheRealBubba 2009-05-25 21:00
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fms (Post 289927)
Alas, this explanation does not address two very common uses for the current N8x0 tablets:

1. Reading books (with FBReader)
2. Watching movies
I'd add "Annotating PDFs with Xournal (or doing anything with Xournal) but I guess that it does not qualify as a "common" use.

As an old-time field biologist, I really like to carry around a notebook to sketch and scribble in. Why is it so hard to translate this idea into the digital age? (yes, Lcuk's Liqbase get it). My N800 is about the size of a spiral notebook, and infinitely more useful, but Rover looks like it was rationalized away from this idea. I think Nokia's response to this is basically "Hey, it's a phone, phones are for fat fingered people, why would you want to scribble and draw on a phone?". My only complaint about the N800/N810 was no working PIM, to which Nokia's response was "PIMs belong on phones, and this is _NOT_ a phone, you want a PIM go buy a phone". </useless-grumbling>

fpp 2009-05-25 21:02
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Umm, wow. I was away from home (and totally offline) for four days... and what do I find when I get back ? The town hall in flames, sounds of brawls and broken glass, and bodies flying out of the saloon windows... hah, pesky kids :-)

First thing I though when I saw the "leak" was, "this is a ploy by Nokia (or part thereof) to keep us occupied till the announcement, and keep us from each other's throats over link and background colours, council despotism, and Nokian bigbrotherism over our beloved, previously so peaceful and consensual, community".

I believe that Quim wrote something quite similar in one of the previous 206 217 posts (which I actually read), but his reasonable words (and a few others') were lost in the noise - rude and aggressive noise, sometimes.

Frankly, people, this thread is ridiculous. I'm no more a fan of a smaller screen (yup, another old-timer) and gsm voice (I like my phone separate, thanks) than many who've said so here. But I, for one, am certainly not going to lose any sleep over this stuff until I see an official announcement and specs with the Nokia logo on them.

I still have a working specimen of each existing tablet model, two of which I use daily despite their respective flaws, and they serve me just as fine today as the 770 did in 2005. So I'll just wait serenely for one or more Maemo5 devices to appear, determine if one will serve me even better, and *then* evaluate my options.

At the very least I'll give it until the Amsterdam summit in October, where I fully intend to participate and have a great time :-)

Aisu 2009-05-25 21:03
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 290079)
I got used to th N810 keyboard eventually, but it's still far from perfect. They must know that in Finland! (What kind of fingers do they have?) That's why I'd hoped for a better, slightly larger keyboard, not a smaller one. :(
Well, I have to say, the E71's keyboard is much smaller than the N810's, but it is so, so, so much easier and quicker to type on. I love typing on my phone, but doing so on my tablet is a hassle...

Nokia did an amazing job on my E71's keyboard :D

Lets hope they do it with the tablets' successor(s).

switchfiend 2009-05-25 21:05
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 290079)
I got used to th N810 keyboard eventually, but it's still far from perfect. They must know that in Finland! (What kind of fingers do they have?) That's why I'd hoped for a better, slightly larger keyboard, not a smaller one. :(
Yeah, that's what I was hoping for too.

I mean, if the plan with Maemo 5 (and the subsequent hardware) is to be more touch-specific for the interface; then I guess they don't intend for the keyboard to be used frequently.

For me though, at that point I'd just buy a smartphone.

I keep flip-flopping between wanting to get a really basic phone (like the upcoming Nokia E52) and pair that to a tablet (or god forbid, a netbook); and an all-in-one smartphone.

If I gain nothing in useability from the N900 (by which I mean it's not any less compromising to use than a smartphone), then why use it at all? This doesn't change the fact that I still think it's very cool.

Capt'n Corrupt 2009-05-25 21:08
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Here's another one for you all to complain about: Where's the stylus.

If this leak is true, I for one am very happy with Nokia's directions and decisions. As before, I will DEFINITELY be picking up one of these at launch.

1) Size. The smaller size make it far more pocketable (the N810 is just too large). Plus the market response for similarly sized devices (iPhone, Pre, G1), has been nothing short of amazing.

2) Great hardware features. The hardware features are quite impressive and very complete.

3) A touch based interface focus. The biggest problem with the current tablets is the desktop paradigm on a handheld device. Linux is not a "desktop OS," just an OS. Get rid of the stylus completely; it encourages poor design for a device this size.

4) A Phone built in - One more radio and a bit of code open up the market tremendously. This fills a need provide a compelling reason to purchase the N900 over the competitions products.

5) OVI store - This is a software choice that shows that Nokia is listening to the trends and intends to put more tablets in peoples hands. All of this means more choice for the consumer.

6) Maemo - By all indications, the current tablet line has tanked in the market. Nokia continues to push maemo despite this face. We should be glad they haven't given up on their strategy and vision. This unwavering resolve is inspiring.


YARR!
}:^)~
Capt'n *hearts* the N900

Capt'n Corrupt 2009-05-25 21:10
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chlettn (Post 290039)
Quite frankly, current tablets were neither fish nor meat. Too small to be really useful as a productivity device, too big to be taken whereever you go. And by now, they really just don't stand a chance as dedicated web-browsing devices against the newest smartphones which combine good enough web browsing with a ton of other features in a package just small enough to fit in a jeans pocket (which the current tablets certainly don't).

Even without data to back up that statement, I think I'm right when I say that the current three versions of the tablets have been complete commercial failures and the whole line was only kept alive as an R&D playground up to now. And on the other hand, things like the iPod Touch/iPhone have sold millions of units...it's really not hard to see why Nokia changes the tablet's premises.

Assuming that the the MobileCrunch article is accurate, this next-gen Maemo device will be a full smartphone, and I applaud Nokia's move to make it pocket-friendlier (and thus, actually usable as a smartphone). It's the first Maemo device I'd actually consider buying because it seems genuinely useful to me - while the N800/N810 were nice devices, but ultimatively nowhere near interesting enough for me to spend money on them.

And with that, I'm outta here. The negativity about an unannounced device on this board is both ridiculous and annoying, and it's continuously gotten worse in the last half year. A few members seem to be simply posting to point fingers on everything Nokia does and scream "CRAP" - and quite frankly, I really have no interest in this big whine fest once called ITT. Bye.
Well said!

*claps*


YARR!
}:^)~
C900

sjgadsby 2009-05-25 21:10
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sachin007 (Post 290059)
...but that exactly is what the switcher hardware key is for. Why duplicate it when you can do it easily with your thumb?
Using the hardware button is a little slower. To use it, I need to:
  1. move my thumb away from the screen (just a little, but why bother if it's not needed?)
  2. push the button
  3. wait for the menu to draw
  4. move my thumb back to the screen (again, just a small, but unnecessary movement)
  5. press the menu item for the target app

This is versus one on-screen tap for the majority of my task switching in non-full screen. Worst case, I have to tap the screen twice and suffer (Oh, the pain!) a menu draw. And if I do have to open a menu to switch, I can often use the app-specific switch menu and thereby narrow the number of choices I see and from which I need to select.

I'm not saying it's a big difference, and I don't expect I'm a typical user. I'm just saying full screen app switching makes Maemo feel uncomfortably slow and clunky to me.

TheRealBubba 2009-05-25 21:11
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullf (Post 289979)
How about a magnifying glass attachment that you slide over the device to magnify the screen to 4.1 inches
*singing the theme from Gilliam's "Brasil"*

fpp 2009-05-25 21:12
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisu (Post 290087)
Well, I have to say, the E71's keyboard is much smaller than the N810's, but it is so, so, so much easier and quicker to type on. I love typing on my phone, but doing so on my tablet is a hassle...
Nokia did an amazing job on my E71's keyboard :D
Lets hope they do it with the tablets' successor(s).
I was going to write just exactly that before your post appeared :-)

The predictive word typing is much, much better than in current Maemos too.

Bundyo 2009-05-25 21:18
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjgadsby (Post 290092)
Using the hardware button is a little slower. To use it, I need to:
  1. move my thumb away from the screen (just a little, but why bother if it's not needed?)
  2. push the button
  3. wait for the menu to draw
  4. move my thumb back to the screen (again, just a small, but unnecessary movement)
  5. press the menu item for the target app
Um, you actually read with a thumb over the screen? :)

kanishou 2009-05-25 21:20
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by benny1967 (Post 290079)
I got used to th N810 keyboard eventually, but it's still far from perfect. They must know that in Finland! (What kind of fingers do they have?) That's why I'd hoped for a better, slightly larger keyboard, not a smaller one. :(
Size is the least of my worries with the N810 keyboard. You can have a much more tactile, more comfortable keyboard on a much smaller area. The E71 is living proof of that.

In fact, it can feel more comfortable if thumbs have to travel less distance, although that certainly depends on the size of the user's hands.

Capt'n Corrupt 2009-05-25 21:21
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Another thing...

The press has been LOVING this new tablet design, but in the comments below are negative posts, many of them from users of this forum. Ironic: the individuals that wish the platform (Maemo) to do well, are largely acting against its success.

YARR!
}:^)~

sjgadsby 2009-05-25 21:26
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeraldKo (Post 290069)
Just curious: what do you use the Tablet for?
Web browsing, email, and Twittering via Mauku mostly. The calculator and Password Safe see occasional use. I've used Wayfinder Map a few times. I'm a dedicated user perhaps, but not a power user, I suppose.

ragnar 2009-05-25 21:27
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lma (Post 290032)
IMHO in terms of usability the Maemo UI peaked at 3.x. There were some great ideas there like modifying the UI behaviour according to stylus vs finger input, work being done for resolution independence and so on. I understand there were limitations in the touchscreen hardware of the time, but if those could be worked out somehow instead of abandoning tablet-style usage patterns a lot of customers would be much happier.

It's not quite a deal breaker for me because the underlying system is much better and more open now, and I can tolerate a bad UI up to a point. But given a choice I would definitely go for the UI that optimises the use of screen real estate and the number of taps needed to do things rather than the one with the eye candy.
Having been a member in the Maemo 3 UI design team as well as the upcoming Maemo 5 UI, and having been involved in creating and driving the stylus/finger detection UI's there in Maemo 3, I'd say as the designer of that particular feature that it wasn't a really great idea. It was a neat trick, but I/we massively underestimated the workload of doing it actually properly.

Still, launching finger keyboard while pressing with a finger, launching stylus keyboard while tapping with a stylus, it was a nice idea. Then again, we're going towards finger based UI's, as has been already discussed previously. Nobody is pulling their stylus out just to start typing.

But the latter part actually I don't get. The Maemo 5 UI is far better than Maemo 3, in virtually every regard. Using it is a much more pleasurable experience. Where do you even get the idea that it would be optimized for eye candy? That we wouldn't optimize for the screen estate? That the designers would have suddenly gone insane? How can you even say that?

Aisu 2009-05-25 21:27
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
And, I have to ask, what size pants to all of you guys wear?? Unless this forum is all women who always wear skirts or short-shorts (if it is... feel free to PM me anytime... I'm free for dinner, btw ;)), you have some very weird/small/designer? pants.

I don't own a pair of jeans, shorts, or dress-pants that my N810 does not comfortably fit into. (With its softcase, nonetheless! Whilst I have my phone in my other side pocket, and my wallet in a back pocket.)

The N810 is in no way, shape, or form, too big to be pocketable, so shush about that, please.

Jaffa 2009-05-25 21:29
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileCrunch
This documents all specifically and repeatedly mention “TMO” launch targets. We’ve never seen this stand for anything besides T-Mobile in this context
Further evidence that this is a Nokia-sanctioned leak to keep the community happy. This isn't talking about T-Mobile, it's talking about the growth in community at talk.maemo.org ;-)

switchfiend 2009-05-25 21:30
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt (Post 290100)
Another thing...

The press has been LOVING this new tablet design, but in the comments below are negative posts, many of them from users of this forum. Ironic: the individuals that wish the platform (Maemo) to do well, are largely acting against its success.

YARR!
}:^)~
I'm not sure about the press all "LOVING" it,

Boy Genius Report's article seems to question why they would bother making it: "Anyone excited for it or are we looking at another IT destined to be lost in a retail wasteland?"

NokiaExperts.com says that they like the idea of the tablets but haven't liked using them in the past due to the sluggishness of the processor; and asks if any of their readers actually use them.

The negative posts (at least in here) seem to be from people who were really just hoping for an N800 (or N810) with better hardware, and who aren't thrilled that the device is morphing into something only tangentially related to a tablet.

Now, as you've mentioned a couple times, this entire thread is all speculation, so yes, it's a bit silly to get all worked up over what may not even be an actual issue.

That being said, considering how long people have been waiting for a new tablet from Nokia, with the lack of official information, speculation becomes sustenance.

Jaffa 2009-05-25 21:34
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisu (Post 290107)
I don't own a pair of jeans, shorts, or dress-pants that my N810 does not comfortably fit into. (With its softcase, nonetheless! Whilst I have my phone in my other side pocket, and my wallet in a back pocket.)
Perhaps it's because I'm skinny, but with car keys, phone (no longer a problem ;-/), wallet and train ticket I find an N810 too uncomfortable to have in a trouser pocket for any length of time.

Don't forget, Rover is 18mm thick: that's about half a centimetre more than an N810. With the smaller width & height it's going to properly look like a brick (as my colleagues' N95s and Sony Ericsson X1 do).

geneven 2009-05-25 21:37
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
"it's quite amazing how worked up people get over a somewhat smaller screen. Seriously, if ebook reading is the number one use case and your eyesight is failing, how about getting something with a 6"+ eInk screen? Even prolonged staring at 4.1" will be bad for your eyes."

Yes, you make an excellent point. Clearly, this thread is a powerful argument that I should not sock my money away for anything Nokia is planning to do in the near future, but I should instead opt for a Kindle.

Sure, any year now Nokia may return to something I want. When that happens, I will be interested. In the meantime, I'll hang on to my N810 and N800 and put any disposable money I have elsewhere.

sjgadsby 2009-05-25 21:37
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bundyo (Post 290098)
Um, you actually read with a thumb over the screen?
Hey, you can do more than just read things on that screen! You can poke it too, and depending upon whats being shown on screen when and where your finger comes down, sometimes things happen. It's turn of the century, "interactive"-buzzword compliant.

More seriously, if my thumbs aren't busy prodding pixels, they're resting below the screen, not beside it, so on screen controls are closer than the hardware button.

switchfiend 2009-05-25 21:38
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisu (Post 290107)
And, I have to ask, what size pants to all of you guys wear?? Unless this forum is all women who always wear skirts or short-shorts (if it is... feel free to PM me anytime... I'm free for dinner, btw ;)), you have some very weird/small/designer? pants.

I don't own a pair of jeans, shorts, or dress-pants that my N810 does not comfortably fit into. (With its softcase, nonetheless! Whilst I have my phone in my other side pocket, and my wallet in a back pocket.)

The N810 is in no way, shape, or form, too big to be pocketable, so shush about that, please.
I suspect I speak for a good many people (at least Americans it would seem) who don't have loads of extra space in their pockets, as...to put it delicately...we may have a bit too much junk in the proverbial trunk.

Depending on the pants, I can fit my N800 in them, but it's not with loads of room to spare, and even in my side pocket, I have to remember to take it out when I sit down, lest the extra tightness cause my pants to split like the Incredible Hulk.

I envy those of you who have such copious amounts of space in their pockets ;)

johnkzin 2009-05-25 21:41
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebski (Post 289821)
I only come here because it used be an Internet Tablet Talk forum. It looks like things have moved on.

Personally speaking if I want to discuss mobile phones I shall go to Howard Forums or somesuch.
Perhaps these forums will evolve into Mer oriented discussions about Mer running on other MIDs, netbooks, UMPCs, and tablets (MID size or UMPC size ... or maybe even larger). So, don't give up on talking about tablets here, even if Nokia stops making MID-ish tablets.

sachin007 2009-05-25 21:42
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 290106)
Having been a member in the Maemo 3 UI design team as well as the upcoming Maemo 5 UI, and having been involved in creating and driving the stylus/finger detection UI's there in Maemo 3, I'd say as the designer of that particular feature that it wasn't a really great idea. It was a neat trick, but I/we massively underestimated the workload of doing it actually properly.

Still, launching finger keyboard while pressing with a finger, launching stylus keyboard while tapping with a stylus, it was a nice idea. Then again, we're going towards finger based UI's, as has been already discussed previously. Nobody is pulling their stylus out just to start typing.

But the latter part actually I don't get. The Maemo 5 UI is far better than Maemo 3, in virtually every regard. Using it is a much more pleasurable experience. Where do you even get the idea that it would be optimized for eye candy? That we wouldn't optimize for the screen estate? That the designers would have suddenly gone insane? How can you even say that?
I understand that. But we don't want it optimized for a smaller space, because the size of the screen is one of the biggest differentiating factors from other smart phones. If i wanted a phone locked in by a carrier, i would take the iphone hands down. But tablets are something special and different. I understand the idea to popularize them, but not at the expense of the tablets.

Aisu 2009-05-25 21:44
Re: N900 specs revealed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 290116)
Perhaps it's because I'm skinny, but with car keys, phone (no longer a problem ;-/), wallet and train ticket I find an N810 too uncomfortable to have in a trouser pocket for any length of time.

Don't forget, Rover is 18mm thick: that's about half a centimetre more than an N810. With the smaller width & height it's going to properly look like a brick (as my colleagues' N95s and Sony Ericsson X1 do).
I didn't realize that Rover was that much thicker... damn.

And, yes, about the keys: you are very right. I usually end up keeping them in the same pocket as my E71 when I have its softcase, and, if I don't, they're usually buttoned up in my breast pocket. (Unless I'm wearing some of my favorite shorts, which usually have an extra, lower, buttonable, pocket on each side where I keep my keys and such.)

But... I wouldn't need a tablet + phone if Rover's screen was bigger ;)

Edit: And, btw, I would suggest at least trying a pair of those shorts for anyone here, especially if they enjoy bringing their gadgets and such around with them and not looking like a complete nerd :D Besides, they're very well made.


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