Re: N900 specs revealed
 

... ok, stupid question time. I know what Mer is... what's Tear?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Your post conjures up some interesting mental imagery :)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I suppose "interesting" is better than "disturbing" ;)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

"Whilst I have my phone in my other side pocket, and my wallet in a back pocket."

I would say as a rule that world travelers do not put their wallets in their back pockets. I was in Barcelona for a few months and had close brushes with pickpockets trying to get my wallet in my FRONT pocket.

In my recent two-week cruise, to London, Amsterdam, Berlin, Helsinki, St. Petersburg, Tallinn, Stockholm and Copenhagen, there were serious pickpocket warnings for each city.

So, after my Palm Centro and keys and walllet, I don't have room for a Nokia anything in my pants pockets.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Actually both of those are slants against the current tablets (with boy genius also assuming that this rumored device would still be a tablet you'd have to use in addition to your phone, which doesn't actually match the rumors) more so than the rumored device itself, which somewhat underlines Captn's point.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Please search! Tear is a webkit based browser for your tablet.

It is amazing.

I love my tablet again thanks to it. :D

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Huh?!? I don't get what you are saying? You think Nokia is speaking in code to maemo.org through this leak by using the acronym "TMO"? :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:

The complete text from mobilecrunch is:
"This documents all specifically and repeatedly mention “TMO” launch targets. We’ve never seen this stand for anything besides T-Mobile in this context, and everything still makes perfect sense after swapping out every instance of “TMO” for “T-Mobile”. As such, we assume that is what they mean.

Target launch dates, as of the beginning of this year:

* T-Mobile International: July 2009
* T-Mobile USA: August/September 2009
* Middle East, Asia, South-East Asian Pacific: July 2009
* Europe: October 2009"

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Are you confirming that this leaked device does conform to what you knew about Rover/RX-51? Size, phone, storage, RAM, camera, etc.?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I can't say anyone has ever tried to pickpocket me... But the buttons on the pants I linked to earlier are very sturdy... and I would feel someone undoing the ones near my *** :p

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Look closely at the keyboard, it doesn't match the layout of the mobilecrunch recreation. So at least one of them is bogus. :)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I think it's too early to make decisions. I will decide soonest, when someone posts his first impressions.

The n900 has no dpad? Maybe the Ui will be better usable without dpad.
Nobody knows. There are more things that changed with the next IT.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

That's quite possible, although Nokia Experts seems to make specific reference to the fact that this would be very similar to the N97.

I am actually a little excited if it turns out that it has voice functionality. I think I might be a little hesitant to run Maemo as a phone (considering the voice functionality isn't present in the current version, and therefore is most likely very new).

It would be somewhat ironic if I'm cautious about a new phone from Nokia because of voice concerns (who I always prefer for their voice capability).

I honestly don't see voice being in the device if it really is coming out in the next couple months. I'd love to be wrong though.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Probably not going to be read by folks from Nokia, but here it goes:

I think Nokians have not been warned just how anxious the waiting community is, so coming here to comment was/is nothing short of putting one's head in the lion's open jaws, and a might hungry lion's at that :) Also, I could kind of sense the target audience if this was a phone. It's mostly not for people who currently own a N8x0 (that's where the flak comes from), it's more like for people who are currently turned down by the fact that NITs have no cellular voice or consider them just a tad too bulky. So, to reiterate, if one of the devices we of course know nothing about DOES cater more for the current N8x0 form/screen crowd and this split is just to make it more appealing to a wider range of people, we're cool. Seriously. Not saying this to get an early device. Really :D

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

ya 13 keys per line vs 11.

I think the second one is a photo shop...

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

...and besides Jaffa, if the initials did stand for us, wouldn't they be TmO instead? :p

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I do. Thus, your statement is false.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Install it right now and find out what your tablet has been missing: a light, fast browser. Don't walk. Run!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

That is a rank mischaracterization.

No user is acting against success of anything.

We are TALKING about preferences.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I'm a Maemo guy, not a devices guy. (I do care deeply about devices too, but that's another topic.) I like to talk in general terms, so I'll continue doing that.

I've said it over many years and I'll continue saying that Maemo is not about any single device but about a software platform, eventually running many different kinds of devices. Just like any other software platform wants to do. From my perspective as an UI designer I'm interested in the limits of scalability: how much can the devices vary while still running essentially the same software.

Scalability is hard to build into the UI and the software. But any one particular screen size is a really poor competitive advantage or a differentiating factor. Say 3" or 3.5" or 4.1" or 5" or 6" or whatever is your preference. It's a very poor differentiator because it doesn't take much for any competitor to buy the same display component and throw it into their device. I'm sure a company like Samsung or Archos already has one device for every of the previously mentioned screen sizes. There is only a finite amount of display component manufacturers in the world, we're all using the same components basically.

Now, naturally you can do a small device targeting certain use cases and a bigger device, better suiting other use cases. Then again, the more variation you have between devices, the harder it becomes to do the actual software for these devices.

Therefore I haven't, and I still don't really see Maemo being about "big" displays - or "small" displays. If the secret sauce would be 4.1" display, everybody would be doing it.

I've used a whole bunch of touch devices, from the Nokias 7710, 770, N800, N810, 5800, N97 etc., as well most of the known touch competitors - you know their names - and I don't see that whether a given device is using 3.1 or 3.5 or 4.1 or whatever is in the top 3 most important factors of overall usefulness or usability or desirability of that device.

Me, pretending to be a consumer, like rather small and slim pocketable devices, but that's just me. I'd cautiously say that I'm with most consumers on that one. I do believe in form factor evolution insofar that the general market and the general range of devices from Nokia and from the competitors try to match the general preference of what consumers actually want to carry and to use.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

It was a joke: "tmo" is an abbreviation of talk.maemo.org which has been used a number of times.

<joke>As they're not aware of talk.maemo.org, I can forgive them their obvious oversight.</joke>

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

To everyone here: I know they're childish... but they are rather helpful in determining a poster's mood/intended attitude... could you throw in a ":p" or ":D" every once in a while if you're making a sarcastic statement or such? (No more confusion between jokes and serious statements. So no one will get worked up over something truly silly...)

Just for the hell of it :p

(I rather liked your little joke, Jaffa, just fyi)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

What you're overlooking in your rush to post and leave is that many of us quite frankly never cared about the pocket fit issue and that the continued focus on that is a red herring. Especially where pants pockets are concerned. IF I carry my tablet in a pocket, it's in a shirt where it fits very well.

There are numerous pouches for carrying the tablets, clipped to a belt, over a shoulder, whatever.

In my case I typically trot out the door with N810 in hand and slide it into its convenient dash stalk. The GPS guides me (sometimes frustratingly) to my destination, whereupon I may remove it and place it into a belt pouch, shoulder bag, shirt pocket or my hand. If I need to use it I pause and do so. No biggie.

You're amused by the screen change complaints-- I'm amused that the "neither fish nor meat" remarks must always be seen in a negative light. It's a good thing inventors over the years never let such closed-mindedness dissuade them.

So the tablet sweet spot doesn't work for everyone. Welcome to a world rich in varied opinons, needs and wants. Viva la difference!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Something to keep in mind (and I'm not defending it, just illuminating it), when a company needs to grow the market for a given product lines, the "use-cases" or desires of the "existing users/customers" are often of secondary concern ... when compared to the use-cases of the new target market (real, or imagined/envisioned by the marketing department).

There are plenty of NeXT geeks and Unix geeks who are constantly disappointed by the Mac (and iPhone in particular) product lines, because Apple consistently doesn't live up to the full potential of the devices ... because that full potential doesn't fit into (or directly detracts from) their target market.

This isn't new. And if you're in that segment who is being alienated by the marketing department, it sucks. A lot. But, it is what it is. You just have to figure out if the device is "close enough" to what you want, or if there's another device that is "closer", and whether or not you're willing to jump ship to those other devices.

But, it's not idiocy, it's just not consistent with the market segment you live in.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I would love for maemo to be in a diverse variety of devices. I have no problem with that. But i don't know why it is being called a tablet just because it runs maemo. We surely understand that it is a phone. I am going to complain because nokia is not clear on telling us whether it is going to release tablet like devices running maemo. Until they do so i will continue to rant about the screen size. I understand that this is not an official release, but with the amount of support for the smaller screen size from nokia employees makes me believe that infatc this is real.Just give me an announcement that we have tablet like devices running maemo and this whole thread will stop right now. I promise.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

What's so funny is: I did. I didn't like them and said so in this forum, stating that they reminded my of the workflow on my small S60 phone... and people sneered at me behind my back then. (I remember because I got upset when I noticed that.) - And now I read they could really be made for a small phone. Well...

But you know, these interface guidelines won't explain how the 3.5" will work for me. On the contrary: They tell me that Maemo 5 wouldn't work well for me even on a 5" screen. Why? Because they make false assumptions about my needs.

Your quote is a perfect exaple:

Reading this, I feel like a sick kind of freak. Like i've been horribly abusing my tablets and should be punished. I have used my tablets (770, N800, N810) as a drop-in replacement for my desktop and laptop computers since 2006. It Just Works. Yes, screen size is an issue sometimes... but why on earth would you make the screen smaller to address this?

So yes, I read the interface guidelines, but the problem is I didn't see my needs addressed there. They don't work for me. So (for me) they cannot justify or explain the 3.5" screen. It's the other way round. The 3.5" screen needed compomises, so uses cases like mine were thrown overboard and user interface guidelines were written accordingly. Or so it seems.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

And if there isn't going to be one, then just let us know that there isn't going to be one.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Whoa whoa WHOA! Bad logic alert.

That isn't necessarily true, friend ragnar. There are often unfortunate disincentives against embracing a best practice that overwhelm the value it provides. We can go off topic and spend the rest of the year listing and bemoaning them. I'll just cite one: smoking in restaurants. For decades here in the US there was opposition against eliminating it, the conventional "wisdom" being that "if that were good for business it would have already been done, no law required". And yet, when laws were implemented, universally no one lost net business and in fact I saw the business of our local establishments increase.

So the jury is actually out on the LCD secret sauce. But I'll bet ya that the first company to put out a 4.1 screen with no appreciable bulk surrounding it will kick major marketing @$$. ;)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

ya please. If that is the case please let us know.... I need to take better care of my n810... looks like it is staying with me a lot longer than i thought it would.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Not sure why you've emboldened me; but given Quim doesn't care a great deal - and it's his company's trademark - and no amount of explaining has clarified the differences (albeit confusingly named, but that's what we've got) between Maemo Software, maemo.org and Maemo; I'm not sure it's worth the dig.

...and besides YoDude, the joke wouldn't have worked so well if I had to correct some hidden document's Finglish!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I didn't mean my question as a set-up for a gotcha (I just couldn't understand why anyone would use apps in less-than-full-screen mode), but your reply makes a point of mine. Why did you want something like a Tablet at all? You already use the Tablet pretty much as a smartphone. It seems to me you would have been at least as well off with an iPhone or a G1 or a Nokia N97 or a web-enabled Blackberry. In the future, why go with an N900 instead of one of those?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

No kidding. If anything different than is available today would be wanted by consumers, it would have been made already. So let's not consider making anything new.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Yeah, that's one of the few things I like about it. :p

Seriously, that's a hair thinner than my N810, because she always wears a 3.6Ah battery. It may look a bit brickish (not that there's anything wrong with that), but after it comes out, I think I'm going to strangle the first person who complains it's too thick for their pockets.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

No, that is not the issue.

The issue is how big the app is in whatever mode MOST USERS are/will be using it in.

I, for one, rarely used full screen mode (and what Peter says makes _some_ sense to me). Lots of posters in this thread sound like they often used full screen mode. Peter is implying that marketing assumes infrequent use of full screen mode. But, NONE of those is an actual indication of what most users are/were ACTUALLY doing (nor what new users are likely to do). The first two are anecdotal (ie: worthless in determining an actual generalized truth). The third is speculative.

We wont know which assumption is correct without a rigorous and well designed usability study. We don't know if the marketing team actually did one of those or not (I hope they did, but Peter hasn't revealed that to us).

What we do know: unless there is also going to be a tablet sized product line, our usage patterns of the devices will change. We don't know yet if that's good or bad. We just know it's going to happen, either because existing apps will be smaller, or we'll be moving to new apps that better fit the screen, or because we'll be changing how we do or don't invoke full screen mode, or .... etc.

(I'm sort of hoping that the RX-71 is a tablet ... but I'm also sort of hoping that the RX-71 is a netbook, or netbook sized tablet, to fit with that set of rumors)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I can take that bet. :) Perhaps not in terms of marketing *** - but in terms of actual mass market sales. I'm personally skeptical, I personally think that it's too large to be carried by most people. But I'm not responsible for making any decisions about Nokia devices and their sizes, so I guess I can say my personal opinion on this topic.

Anyways.

http://www.archos.com/products/imt/i...try=fi&lang=en
http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5...try=fi&lang=en

There's your 3.5 inch, 4.2 inch, 5 inch and 7 inch models. That was my main point anyway, about screen being a very poor competitive advantage.

I guess the difference here is that whereas smoking wasn't previously tested, ... Every screen size has been tested, in many devices. And it's not too hard to do consumer research. We of course do plenty of research. Doing mockups and realistic prototypes with different sizes is perfectly feasible. It's not like Google testing fourty-something different colour variations for a given shade of blue, but still.

I don't think the jury is completely out. I'd say that for a given set of key use cases for a device, I can ballpark a screen/device size figure that is pretty close on the the money. The size of course differs depending on which use cases you put to be the most important. And of course the jury is still out for one-device-does-all -size. (But the jury should be out on whether such a thing makes sense or not.)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I don't want it to be. I want a phone to be pocketable. The RX-51 is too big and big for a phone. (Way too big and heavy.)

The tablets I use at home (bed, couch), or when I'm travelling (keep them in a bag then). For that, the RX-51 is too small - it doesn't offer enough benefit over a phone.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

"Many of us" refering to what? A hundred people on here? The maybe 50.000 (if that) people who bought one of the completely non-marketed 770/N800/N810?
Compared to millions of iPhone/5800/G1/BB Storm users?
Elaborate, please.

Yeah, and a lot of potential customers don't wear shirts 24/7.

Yeah, try selling a belt clip that to any person under 35 or even 40, so that they can actually carry that tablet around. They'll likely smile politely and ask for something else.

You can't sell a device that is supposed to be part of your daily life without making it sexy - and a belt clip or pouch or whatever pretty much kills whatever desirable design the device has to offer otherwise.

Really, that suggestion alone is amusing. I'm 24, and let me tell you, you're a bit out of touch with what younger people with money to spend want.

So, in a forum full of people who cry "FOUL" over any tiny little change, you accuse me of closed-mindedness? That's really just rich, my friend. I could say the very same thing about you, for that matter.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Well, I'll ask you the same question I asked sjgadsby, who also uses full-screen only rarely: what do you use your Tablet for?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Well, the second one has blue "alternates" on the keys just like the N810... but no way to get to them. The UI is also Diablo's (more or less, the task navigator icons look like Bora's!), not Fremantle's:

http://media.cellpassion.com/post/14...s_nokrover.JPG

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So you've never even actually owned a Tablet (despite your 130+ posts), am I getting this right?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

We totally agree the screen size for a maemo phone.... not for a maemo tablet. Please understand the difference.

Thanks