Re: N900 specs revealed
 

:eek:

No wonder he is talking like that!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I already do that on a smaller screen (I switched away from my phone+N810 in October, when I got my G1). It's not ideal on my G1, but it does work. And, really, I thought the N800/N810 was just barely too small for doing this A LOT anyway. That's part of how I arrived at my conclusion that I needed a middle-range device.

I never considered the N800/N810 to be a good size for those tasks. It's just slighlty too small. As above, that's part of how I came to the conclusion that I needed both a pocketable (for quick/dirty work) and a middle-range device (for more intensive work ... reading, office tasks, web pages that are just too big to read comfortably on anything smaller than a 5" screen, etc.).


While I don't like the decision to go to a 3.5" screen for the NIT (I'd rather have the G1, N97, or Mako get larger, not have the NIT get smaller), if there is also going to be a netbook size device, then I can actually see that working out (for me) as a better pair of devices than a dumb phone + 4" NIT:

A Maemo phone, for calls and messaging, music, VERY light video watching, and quick/dirty web use, all comfortably pocketable.

A Maemo netbook/tablet/convertible-tablet for more intense mobile use (movies, e-books, real web use, more intensive messaging conversations, document reading/editing, etc.).

That would actually fit my model of "a pocketable and a non-pocketable".

A lot of this depends on what the RX-71 actually is (a NIT size device that makes all of you happy, or a netbook that makes me happy), and/or how many Maemo devices there will be.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Good to hear that there are no delusions of grandeur, except we know that it was all leaked for benefit of talk.maemo.org. ;)

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...7&postcount=60

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I've used a N800 for roughly two months, back in February of 2007.

I think I'm entitled to an opinion. But it's great to see that the community on here seems to think I'm not. Really, just underlines what I thought before.
:rolleyes:

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Here's my latest fully useable xterm/keyboard concoction. Forgetting how ugly it is, notice how much "screen estate" I have left for things like word completion and maybe tab selection. Contrast it to the xterm I no longer use. I was thinking inside a box that doesn't pop up.

Attachment 3525Attachment 3527
Attachment 3526Attachment 3528

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Sounds like a companion product opportunity ... you should build a prototype and see if you can get gadget makers to pick up for sale :-)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

1) Smaller screen - yuk
2) Tied to cellular provider and likely extra money for data - nope
3) lesser battery life due to cellular activity - no thanks
4) No dpad - bad
5) No stylus listed as "included in box" - bummer

= Nokia not getting any money from me for this device. A different device perhaps, not this one.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

It was around 400,000 units shipped in August 2007 (770 and N800 only, and this was just as the N800's price drop was hitting), I'd say we're well over 1 million units by now (perhaps 2).

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I apologize for that. It was all my frustration. Dont blame the community for that.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So, would you really rather have an N900 (as its rumored to be) than the G1? Why?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Oh I do understand the difference, and given that this thread is about a rumor that clearly states that it will be a smartphone, I treat the rumor as such.
Any links for that?

Anyway, still a drop in an ocean compared to the phones I've mentioned, even compared to each one seperately. And really, as ragnar mentioned - if devices with 4.1" screens would be thing customers desire, there would be tons more of that sort. I don't see that. And that Nokia is apparently moving away from that size is really telling enough.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I wish it were possible to put more than one thanks on a post (or on a specific paragraph, even).

"Too small to be really useful as a productivity device, too big to be taken whereever you go."

Exactly. Though, I wouldn't say "too big", just that without being a phone, they become redundant when you're wanting to travel REALLY light, at the point where you want to carry JUST one device, even just one pocketable, the current/previous NITs become "too much to be taken where ever you go".

For me, a single NIT/Phone device (like the one leaked/speculated in this thread), that was still as big as an N810, would be fine. It only becomes "too big" when you combine it with a second pocketable device (having to carry both a phone and a NIT).

And, while I'm HIGHLY disappointed that that the NIT would get smaller, I have to plainly admit that what I miss in carrying my G1 is not the NIT's size ... it's the more extensive access to the Linux layer, and everything that Linux can do. The leaked/speculated device may turn out to be great (though, there are a couple of Android apps I've grown highly attached to...).

But, otherwise, I find the sentiment of the quoted paragraph to be pretty spot on.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Well as i posted elsewhere... nokia got it right with the 7710 way before anyone else. Then they used the same logic u are using now and look where they are in relation to touchscreens. Although i wont say they will be big, but i dont understand why they wont do it because it is a simple as to replace the guts of the n810 with those specs.... should be pretty straight forward.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Further comparisons (N900/Rover/RX-51 vs. N800 vs. N810 vs. iPhone vs. G1):

http://sizeasy.com/page/size_compari...ia-Rover-vs-G1

http://bleb.org/software/maemo/rover-size.jpg

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

The keyboard in that picture is an abomination! *HURL*

No, I wont buy a device with that 3 row keyboard. Sorry. I'll keep my G1. And, if that's the case, then the only Maemo device I would buy would be a netbook sized one (since, as I've already said, many times, I wont carry two pocketables).

Man that keyboard looks awful.

I can live with the 3.5" screen on a Maemo phone. I wont tolerate that keyboard, though. Nokia: the G1, and many HTC phones, have shown that you can put a comfortable/usable 5 row keyboard on a device that small. Don't ignore the wisdom in that.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

But, at least they put the control key in the correct location (I get really tired of mobile devices putting the control key on the left ... making it REALLY hard to use all of the important control-key combinations)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

How disappointing this whole thread is. I for one had no problem pocketing my N810. I loved the large size of the screen. Having recently purchased a 5800, I can say I'm not greatly enamored with these smaller screens for browsing. It can be done, sure, but it's not pleasant, like it is on the N810.

With a screen size no bigger than the N97 and generally being happy with Symbian for most of my daily tasks, why exactly would I buy an N900? I bought the N810 because it had a big screen. Great for GPS in the car, for looking at recipes in the kitchen, all sorts of things. Teensy screens are useless for that stuff.

Secondly, I'm displeased with the direction Maemo 5 is going. I liked the UI elements. They would have been annoying were the full screen mode not available, but I like having a task bar/launch menu of sorts. Not having it is one of my biggest annoyances with S60.

Of course, take my displeasure with all this with a grain of salt, as I wasn't pleased with the reduction in size from the E61 to the E71. I liked the bigger screen. Maybe I'm weird, not liking to hold the screen inches from my face to read it well without having enormous text.

The sad thing is that if the N900 was an updated N810 with a phone bolted on I'd probably have bought one instead of an N97. It would be better for my use, presuming battery life wouldn't be an issue.

What I really don't understand is why Nokia would want to put more into the already overly crowded smartphone space. Between their phones and all the others out there there's already plenty of players there. There is no new ground to tread, other than putting Maemo on a smartphone.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Finally, to add something (I think) to all the other points made so far: Maemo needs an infusion of new users and developers to grow the ecosystem. This device, combined with Harmattan down the road, are the proverbial "it".

We're going to see a much bigger community (of both users and developers). For a much larger segment of the market, I think this is a real iPhone competitor. Although, I think it'll probably more compete with the G1 - and perhaps even beat it.

It's interesting to note, as well, that the G1's sole network provider in the UK is... T-Mobile.

Whether it meets my use-cases (occasional ebook, in-car nav, video on the move), I've no idea. Initial suspicions are that it's too bulky to use as my primary phone (and Vodafone would only give me a few quid off my current contract to go phoneless, so it wasn't worth it); that it could look hideous with the dimensions given (basically as brick-like and uninspiring as the G1) and that my optimism over software development will be short-lived.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

I got a little bit bored so googled a method to roughly compare the size of the screen to each other. Well, here is the result, it isn't really that accurate but enough to feel the different. Second picture is N900's screen compared to n97, for some reason I really do feel that n900 is the n97's killer.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

100 per cent totally agree!

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So the default position of your thumb is over the screen? That's very uncommon usage. Why would you care about the screen size if you don't see it anyway.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

In my case, I generally have my hands and thumbs positioned in a way that makes it most comfortable to hit the screen, so hitting a hardware button requires some repositioning.

I generally am not comfortable using any of the hardware buttons on the N810, although the fullscreen button is not so bad.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So what you are saying is that Nokia decided to abandon its attempt to create a new market (IT) and decided to compete instead in the markets created by Apple (iPhone) and Asus (eee).

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Heya everybody !

I hope these specs aren't really official, otherwise, i won't buy such a device. 3,5" screen isn't enough for me. 4,2 was quite good but i would have enjoyed 5".

3,5" is just like many other smartphones, and so, doesn't make a big difference.

The N810 kbd is really disapointing, so if I want a kbd, i can take my E90 with its amazing kbd (and E90 is a lot more powerfull for video than my NIT)

Even the rumored HTC HD pro will be better (better keyboard).

And if i don't want so much a good keyboard, iphone will be enough, with far better multimedia and user interface.

I really really hope this is just a stupid rumor.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Maybe the keyboard is a second lcd display and you can configure any kind of controls on that space? That would be awesome :-)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

When I was using my tablet (I haven't since October):

1) Email
2) RSS reading
3) SSH to my servers to check on them, or work on them while standing between rows of them in the machine room (ssh to console server, work from there).
4) VNC+SSH to my desktops to check on them
5) IM
6) Web browsing
7) Taking notes in meetings, or having light
8) Reading PDFs and similar documents
9) light gaming (to pass time, mostly)
10) various little gadgety apps for my life (weather, dice, etc.).
11) Rhapsody (I never got around to converting my iTunes library to mp3, for using the NIT for general music listening)
12) A very few times, Skype

And, before you list which of those were things I could have just done on a phone:

a) When I was still using my NIT, I had yet to find a decent mobile web browser (I don't consider the NIT browser to be mobile, it gives you access to full web sites, not ones boiled down for Opera Mini, nor even boiled down for the iPhone and Android), or a decent phone IM program, or a decent SSH or VNC program, etc. There were no phones that would fill in for that role.

b) Android fixed some of that, but not all of it.

c) Some of it turned out to be things that a pocketable (any pocketable, including the NITs) just isn't good at -- I found that I needed something in the 7"-9" screen range for more than the most trivial of those tasks (ie: I can take light notes and bullet item type notes on my G1, or on my NIT, but to take REAL notes, I really need something more like a netbook).

To get back to full screen: the ONLY time I ever used full screen mode, or found it to be a noticeable improvement, was with VNC. There were a few cases where it was also useful while using SSH, but not really useful enough to do it regularly. (though, I think Rhapsody invoked it automatically, but I wouldn't have been bothered by it in non-full-screen mode) The rest of the time, no, I didn't use full screen at all. Once or twice I tinkered with it while doing Google Reader, or something, but it wasn't enough of an improvement to be worth losing the status bar and task bar.

It may be significant that I don't use my pocketables for watching TV shows nor movies. I'm a film buff, and I care a LOT about being able to clearly see the screen ... not only is a 3.5" screen too small for that, but even a 4.1" or 5" screen is too small for it, IMO. I never really considered the NIT to be a PMP ... and it wouldn't surprise me if that's the differentiating factor here: people who think the NIT is/should-be a PMP end up using full screen mode a lot.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

The cutoff for "younger people" must be between 24 and 25, then. (Or do I not have money to spend? :rolleyes:) I'll be honest, I don't use a belt holster for my N8x0 very often -- a basicHolster suits me better, because it carries several other essentials as well. But I did buy a couple, and I use one perhaps half the time that I'm carrying 2 tablets. (Pants pocket the other half.)

Let me tell you, not all young folks are quite as obsessed with fashion over function as you and your ilk, and even for those who are, holsters aren't necessarily unsexy -- or else Urban Tool's singularly annoying marketing is completely misdirected.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Yeah how could Nokia possibly think to compete in that "phone" market, which we all know was created by Apple during the jurassic period.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Also the stylus/finger sized menus!

I am, actually. Even on the N810 (while ironically also sliding the keyboard out so I can access the d-pad), it's just faster for anything other than purely alphabetic input.

Well, I can only judge from what I've seen in the pre-alpha/alpha/beta SDKs so admittedly there's not much to go on there yet and it's quite possible that the final on-device UI will be improved. Still, compare and contrast:

http://test.maemo.org/images/maemo/l...l_02_thumb.jpg

vs

http://modest.garage.maemo.org/image...5-editor-1.png

or

http://maemo.org/midcom-serveattachm...orld-7open.png

vs (sorry, I couldn't find any online examples of the fremantle file chooser)

http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php...1&d=1243296764

There is a lot of useful context lost in the Fremantle versions, and I don't think anyone would argue that what's left makes better use of the available pixels.

(PS - I'm not calling anyone insane!)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

A Maemo Phone vs an Android Phone would depend a lot on the specifics.

5 row keyboard vs 3 row keyboard? 5 row wins. a 4 row like the HTC Fortress would be acceptable. Other 4 rows would beat a 3 row, but not a 5 row. The N810 keyboard also loses for bad ergonomics. Not sure if "no keyboard at all" beats a 3 row keyboard or not... In fact, I might just consider the 3 row keyboard to be about as useful as no physical keyboard at all.

Full Linux machine vs Android Apps? Not sure. There are one or two Android apps that I am STRONGLY attached to, and having everything sync seemlessly with my outside contacts/calendar matters a lot too (a constant annoyance I had with the NIT; if it had just had SyncML for contacts and calendar, it would have been a HUGE improvement).

2007/8007 OS GUI vs Android GUI? Android. Dunno about the Maemo 5 GUI.

3.5" screen vs 4.1" screen? While I would prefer 4.1", it turns out the apps, keyboard, and UI matter more to me than the screen size.

Battery life? like the screen, it matters, but not as much as the apps and ergonomics (keyboard and GUI).

Dpad vs trackball vs none: Dpad > trackball > nothing.

WWAN: I'm not willing to carry two pocketables. So, a NIT would have to AT LEAST have data and work well with Google Voice. But I'm not sure if that'd be good enough or not, I'd have to experiment for a bit, first.


A 4.1" Maemo device (shaped like the N97 or Mako) with 5 row keyboard, Dalvik (for running android apps), decent photo camera (usable with Android apps that scan bar codes), USB Host+OTG for peripherals, micro-DVI-I out, USB Client for charging/data-sync, 3.5mm headset jack, micro-SDHC, full GSM/WCDMA phone capability, and 8+ hours of usable battery life? I'd _have_ to buy that. That would just about be my dream pocketable.

The leaked design here? ... I don't know. It's possible. Depends on what I'd do about those one or two Android apps that I truly love. It would be a tough choice. I might buy it just because I don't want a Maemo phone to fail, and just to try it out (swap my SIM card back and forth). But, just adding Dalvik to it would probably push me off of the fence and into the "must buy" category.

If I didn't buy it, or end up using it regularly, I expect the biggest reason would be it's design, not its specs. Like I said before, it's just too plain, and I would be annoyed by the lack of dpad, and I HATE the idea of a 3 row keyboard.

There's a slim chance that it could be due to just _one_ app on my G1 if I can't find a similar way to replicate its functionality on Maemo. (it's a diet related app, that has made my life a LOT easier, and while I can do 99% of it via any web browser, the one thing the G1 lets me do, which makes things amazingly convenient ... is scan a food item's bar code, and just tell it how many servings of that I ate, and at which meal ... and that's it, it's recorded for me; but, I find I'm needing to scan things less and less, as the library grows, so maybe I could switch to only using the web interface via _any_ device, not just a Maemo phone). Faced with a Maemo phone, in the wild (not just leaked), I'd have to figure out just how much that barcode scanning really mattered to me, and how much that need was changing over time.

So, as with any real, non-trivial, question ... the answer to "N900 vs G1" is "it depends". Unless that dream pocketable comes along, it would be a complex choice that I'd need to really weigh carefully.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

To lam in post# 309:

I agree with everything you've said except the part about not calling people insane. ;)

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

All the food that you eat has a barcode on it?

Honestly that application sounds pretty cool but I doubt it would work for me.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

On that level, I think it would be a successful formula. As I've said, I've already come to this conclusion for my own device needs.

My doubts are about the design of the exact device that was leaked. The smaller screen doesn't seem like a necessary choice, but it's probably not a killer. The 3 row keyboard, however, is a real turn off for me. Incredibly so. The lack of a dpad is a major annoyance as well. And the "just a brick" design doesn't help.

Put Maemo on the Mako, and I'd be happier, and more confident in the device's success in that formula. Try to give the Mako a 5 row keyboard, I'll be a LOT happier/confident. Make the Mako into a 4.1" screen device, and I'd LOVE it.

Mako + Maemo + 5 row keyboard + 4.1" screen = my dollars

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Did I say that? No.

I also eat out some (their data base has a ton of common restaurants in it; so if I decide I'm going to get a sandwich or salad from Subway or Quiznos, no problem).

You can also create your own "meals" from more basic ingredients, altering the portions by grams, oz's, cups, etc.

But, I don't have to restrict myself to known foods (made from scratch, where I have had the time to enter in all of the details myself ; or at a listed restaurant). I can scan a bar code and have that food automatically, or I can enter new foods (and share the info with other users, growing the database) from just entering data from the food label (or from a restaurant that publishes their nutritional info). And, if I have a bar code for whatever food data I have just entered (depending on whether it's a recipe or a purchased food item), I can then scan the bar code and associate it with that data.

Like I said, 99% of it I can do without the bar code scanner, just using any random website. But, that 1% of bar code reading, turns out to be AMAZINGLY convenient. Amazingly convenient enough that it made a huge difference in how easy this diet is going (compared to other diets I've been on), and I'm unsure how much it will or wont matter as time moves forward.

However, we're going way off topic here :-}

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

As for the stylus... I actually really like the guitar-pick-on-lanyard stylus on the Tube. I wouldn't mind seeing that become the stylus design for the Maemo devices as well (since we can't really call them "NIT"s anymore).

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

If it's a capacitive screen with a hardware keyboard, why would you really need a stylus? Same for a dpad. It's effectively how I use my n810 now. The only time I need the stylus or dpad are for ui elements that weren't developed for a finger.

Lotta venom here. Some valid points: i.e. how far ahead of its time the n800 truly was, but the truth is a company doesn't stay in business being ahead of its time. So what strategy do you use if you have an idea where you want to take a platform? Open source it and watch what people fix and develop for you for free, then include that in a shipping unit that's had more polish and is consumer ready.

The release of a new product doesn't render the previous one defunct.

Just keep it open for me, so I can get ssh, gnumeric, and ati85 on it, and I'm good. Honestly, wolfram alpha could replace ati85 but for nostalgia.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

So, I realize that some of my "it's too small" vs "it's a lot like what I use now" comments might be confusing here, and over in the poll. So I thought I'd clear up my position:

The more I've thought about it today, the more I think that, as a phone, this would be a fine device for its size (not for its design, just for its size). It's comparable to the G1, which I think does just fine for a pocketable. I even do _most_ of the same things on it, that I used to do on my NIT.

The things I would NOT do on this device:

• full movie, maybe even full tv show, viewing (wouldn't do it on the N810 either)
• detailed note taking (also didn't do that on the NIT)
• VNC (did it on the NIT, but don't on the G1)
• PDF/Document/E-Book reading (I didn't enjoy that on the NIT, either)

But, just about everything else I did on the NIT, or on my G1, I'd still feel fine doing on this device's screen. Those above things are things I decided really belong on my netbook or netbook-sized-tablet. VNC would be a cute novelty on my phone, but just a novelty. Somewhere in these two threads I said I'd do light video on it, and that meant something like youtube video, or other embedded news story clips. Not movies, TV shows, and probably not 15-20+ minute clips of any sort. I'd probably be pleased as punch with a Maemo device the size of a netbook (clamshell or tablet), though.


The things I find really negative about this device are:

• 3 row keyboard (just about a deal breaker for me ... may in fact be a deal breaker for me, I'm still trying to digest that)
• lack of dpad (probably not a deal breaker, but the finger GUI better be DAMN impressive for me to be ok with that)
• Flat brick look (not a deal breaker, but a BIG disappointment, given the sexy look of the Mako).

And to give credit where credit is due:

• I'm ECSTATIC about it being a full blown phone!
• While I'm a T-Mobile customer, and enjoy the fact that it's a T-Mobile phone, I think I would have also been happy to use this as an AT&T Go-Phone (on the $1/day or $3/day options).
• 32GB of internal storage! THAT is amazingly good news.
• The camera sounds OUTSTANDING.

But, still no word, that I've heard, about SyncML for contacts and calendar (or at least syncing with Google, but SyncML would be a bigger deal for me, as I have some SyncML-but-not-Google resources out there too, and I can use GooSync to use SyncML with Google). That could be a huge one for me. Maybe even a deal breaker.

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

If it has a stylus, why would you really need a capacitive screen with a hardware keyboard?

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Stylus: Ever try to make a non-fuzzy/fat-line drawing with your finger?

I agree that a stylus should be OPTIONAL for the general use of the device ... but, it should be available/compatible for those apps that need a finer point than a finger.

As for the dpad ... since it's an open application ecosystem, those UI elements will always exist, on some apps. And even without that, depending on the exact layout, a Dpad can actually be faster, or more precise, than a finger. The G1 has a finger designed GUI, but I still find myself reaching for the trackball some times (and annoyed that I can't reach for a dpad instead).

Just having 1 input method isn't going to cover all cases. I think having all 4 available is pretty ideal (dpad, stylus, finger, keyboard).

Re: N900 specs revealed
 

Because soft keyboards suck ***, and because there are plenty of cases where pulling out a stylus breaks your train of though/operation/etc., and is just a plain pain in the ***.

None of the 5 input elements (touch screen, stylus, finger, physical keyboard, dpad) is a complete replacement for the others, not even in combinations. If you're missing one, you're missing valuable pieces of user interaction.