Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Just a couple of small corrections...

No, the media player has a crawler that scans your cards for you and adds anything it finds to your library. It should work automatically in the background (unless you manually disable it because you use another media player anyway)...

This isn't really fair either. You don't have to add Extras, you just have to enable it in the Application Manager. And it is pretty straightforward to do that. And the Extras repository is stuffed full of fascinating, fun, cool software that is ALL FREE.

That's not a very good example. Tech enthusiasts will figure out how to hack rotation onto their device (well, they will if they know how to search the forums), but OS2008 isn't really set up for portrait mode; it would require a complete reconfiguration of the home screen and the application menu. The "ready-made code" doesn't address this large and complex issue at all. No, official rotation support requires lots of work on Nokia's part, and without the hardware (ie an accelerometer to detect physical device rotation), it understandably wasn't really worth it to them.

I'm really looking forward to rotation in Maemo 5... The whole interface is being designed with rotation in mind.

Hopefully my link above will help that situation for you! It includes a custom kernel that has rotation and faster SD card access. (Install Advanced Backlight for a nice rotation button right on the task bar)

Search for the Tear browser.

Try one of the several excellent YouTube players available in Extras, like MyTube and (so I hear) Digia @scene. I use MyTube all the time, it does a great job. The iPhone uses a dedicated youtube client, too. It's the best way to do mobile video. browser-embedded Flash video is just too resource hungry for this generation of ARM processors.

They didn't put it on a CD, but a quick Google shows you that Nokia made one... Seriously, it's the first hit on a search for "tablet video converter"! And if you don't have the Internet, then why are you buying an Internet Tablet?

There are better third party converters, anyway. They aren't too hard to find, either.

Wrong again. If you buy an OTG adapter the tablets work just fine as an OTG host without any hacks at all. You just plug and play. USB flash drives and USB keyboards both work just fine, again with no hacks.

It is just difficult to find an OTG host adapter because there are almost no mobile devices on the market that can be OTG hosts, so there's no market for the adapters. But I got one for my N800 for about $10.

And don't say that Nokia should have included the adapter in the box, it is part of the USB OTG standard, and most people wouldn't use it. Most printers don't even come with the ($2) USB cable!

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

I stand corrected. Was this in OS 2007's media player as well? I must have totally missed it then, but I've been living with Canola ever since.

But if the built-in media player is horrible, then having even a three-step installation for a better one is about two steps too many.

(Noted and noted ;))

This is noted, and I understand that it'd be a large issue. However, it was still frustrating to read the "it's in the new version" arguments, and I wonder if Nokia could have put the hooks in and allowed an app to access that functionality. Comparison to the installable camera app comes in handy. (Incidentally, my experience with the camera app has been nothing short of disastrous, which I think might undermine my argument a bit.)

Thanks for the link. I hate to sound like a scaredy noob, but although from what I understand kernel replacements are no longer the USB-connected joy with Diablo's updates, something with definite potential to brick my tablet still makes me a bit uneasy. As I said, a hook left in the kernel could have made this much less painless.

I do have Advanced Backlight already, it's super nice :D

I actually just found it a couple of days ago through the forums. Looks great and confirms my belief Mozilla/Gecko on mobile devices is generally speaking a joke (then again, as an Opera user I'm probably not the most objective). Unfortunately, I just timed it now - 58 seconds before Tear was done loading and rendering facebook.com.

I do however have to say the iphone version loads acceptably fast and everything works, including photo albums which were iffy at best in MicroB. Hooray for Webkit.

Again, however, your ordinary user isn't going to just realise they should search these forums for "Tear". The built-in browser isn't even named, so if anything, they'd go looking for a newer version of, I don't know, "the Maemo browser"? More likely they'd just assume the browser is the browser is the browser.

Noted, and perhaps this particular point was a bit unfair - still a tiny bit disappointing on a device possibly marketed more on its web abilities than any other of its time.

I am going to stick to my opinion in this case - finding a site, albeit Nokia-branded, that says "beta", "archived", and "no customer care" would be pretty unconvincing to a "normal" user. If Nokia wants the tablets to be considered as a movie player, that needs to change.

It's not really about being hard to find. Hardly anything is hard to find in the age of Google. It's about eliminating the questions of "Should I be using this?", "Which one should I be using?", "Is this going to break my computer?"

I installed tablet-encode (on Linux) without a blink, but someone new will see "beta" and "unsupported" and will wonder if they'll break something trying out the Nokia software.

Oops. I was honestly under an impression that software would be necessary to put the tablet into OTG mode. Is this a recent development, or is it because of a proper OTG adapter as opposed to just USB plugs soldered together?

I wouldn't - I was surprised and impressed they've thoughtfully included a backup stylus.

Writing this post rather made me sympathise with Pittsburgh's players today :p. It was good experience though, and thanks for the corrections. Nevertheless, I'm seeing a lot that still rules out "normal" users, and for the more advanced folk, I'm still concerned that Nokia isn't really sure what they want to do with the tablets themselves. If they are, they're not really doing a good job showing it as far as I can see. (And feel free to prove me wrong... I want that excuse to buy shiny N810 goodness.)

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

my $0.02 worth.

After reading the inishal post, I was oddly moved, most of the conserns raised were the very reason I bought the device and payed an additional $120 to have my brother purchase it in Chicago and ship it to me.

I bought my N810 after realizing the 770 (or waterer it is) had an 800 pixel wide screen and wifi, it was a Palm replacement, and I wanted the full web experienced, to be mobile.

What blue me away on my N810.

I have tyred Linux on my home PC from time to time and inevitably come to the conclusion I am a Windows user and stuck without a GUI. I have got to say installing aps. with preloaded repository in Linux beats Windows hands down. I had never installed an application in Linux until my n810, it is so eazy to install my mom could do it. (i now use many embedded Linux devises and i think it rocks)

my n810 was my first GPS device - I wanted something GPS, the n810 was a little disappointing, but suitably impressed with Meamo map and the ability to download odd back country maps.

Multitasking OS, the n810 could record audio and take written notes at the same time (cant express how long I have waited for this ability in a hand held device) now I want the ability to track my note taking with the the recorded audio (so clicking on a word will start playing say a recorded meeting 10 seconds before actually writing the note) Imagen a journal linked into your calendar, recording all the audio in a meeting, and taking key points, and using those key points to navigate the audio recording and synking that with you PC (you can skip all the crap that gets said and jump right to the gems) - that said the first company to patient that app. and integrate it will probably win my business - i expect it to be palm. So multitasking is a huge winner, still blows my mind what it allows.

I Hate DRM - "DRM = stones", anything DRM is dead for me I cant buy it on principal, so all those DRM pay per use e-books, audio books are non options. I love my freedom wont compromise it and this device gives it to me the way I want it. FB Reader handled all my Palm content 100% and gave me more options, i am impressed. UI took a little getting used too but it is good. (it took me some geting used to the folder structure in Linux to actual find my content, this is the only thing I would fix (as an option to make this device consumer ready)

Canola wow what an interface for photos and managing podcasts.
I never thought I would uses it so i didn't download it for a while, I was impressed with what i saw on the Zoon and i-pone when it came to managing photos, so I took the plunge and installed Canola. what makes the n810 500% better, is i can be on sight taking photos, unplug the card, and plug it into my n810 and 3 or 4 people can view it almost as seamlessly as if they were prints.

as for pod casting i could improve Canola a lot, but it has set the bar high, and no device to date can match it (i-pod all you like)
i can subscribe to any (ANY) RSS feed in Canola and download 5 -6 podcasts at once just by viewing the RSS feed and have them on hand. (I though the nokia e71 may be a replacement for my n810 and phone but its pod cast plication and download speed made me feel like I would expect an XP user reacting to windows 3.1 would feel.) Canola must have memory leeks or use CPU when the device is unused my only problem is time to launch and i cant leave it running in the background as it flattens my battery.

Download in the background while you brows the Internet- haven't seen a device that comes close to the n810, i do thin in windows all the time the n810 lets me download stuff and carry on with what I was doing, no need to single window. (I can also use my n810 as a computer with it comes to interacting with my download.)

I never had or used a PMP, (other than palm OS as my audio book reader) so the N810 I though was fantastic for video, my only disappointment is not being able to play videos downloaded from www.ted.com without needing to convert them (a faster CPU would make it a little more smooth). But I have used it to entertain kids, keep me from sleeping on 24hr flights, I have found many ways to convert video and I love the fact I can circumvent DRP so I can future prof any content I deem fit for keeping. grab a few 8Gig Micro SD cards after converting you have a huge video library on hand.

Browsing a windows network was a plus although I found it a bit slow to be useful.

A BIG Bonus was ssh - for a person who needs a GUI I have leaned some thing just have to be and I have to change. SSH tunnelling wow, all the money I have spent setting up a VPN at work and home, only to discover ssh, it has proven to be the most reliable solution, after connecting to work via SSH VNC and RDP I have standardize on remote assess via SSH. - this SSH thing has probably been around a lot longer than May 2008 but I only just discovered it and now any device that docent sport SSH is a "Stone" (non option) SSH is ironical also the most eco-frendy program I run allowing me to send WOL commands to any PC I may interact with - the result is all PC's at work and home are off untill i want to acsess it (thanks to DDWRT and Qnap).

RDP - thats also cool, I can use it to log into my PC my n810 is like a remote for my PC, just wish there was a way to press F11 to exist full screen as I find browsing in Fierfox on my PC via n810 way faster. after my n810 I can now remember IP addresses and not computer names.

Wikipedia in my pocket at the diner table I love it, my kids know if they ask where does a cashew come from they will get an answer.

I also love the VMGarnet. so i keep my contact there as.

big screen and phone support and i will upgrade.

that's it,
Tim

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

I am a little puzzled by your numbers, actually. I just tested Facebook in MicroB and it took 43 seconds from hitting the Login button to the completion of my home page. I wonder why it is faster for me?

Tear is still in beta testing, but I don't think it will be that way for much longer, and then it will be easy to find in Extras, along with all the other great stuff in there.

I'm sorry if I sounded harsh or something...

I agree fully with your overall point that the current tablets aren't really for your "normal," average user. I just thought some of your particular points weren't really fair.

I also agree that the tablets were (relatively speaking) a marketing "flop". Nokia didn't know how to market them, and they really didn't do a great job aiming for any particular user group.

I seriously hope that will change with the new device. All indications are that it will.

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Maybe Facebook hates me :p Meh, I wouldn't attempt to load the full facebook on a screen this size anyway (web apps: killing One Web since 2007), so it's irrelevant really... but it's not really that fast.

Fair enough, considering several were actually incorrect...

... I'm mostly happy with my N800. I'm rather confused as to what exactly Nokia's point is, which fueled the one-day rant, but that doesn't stop me from using their arguments, so to speak. I'll be on the lookout :D

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Unfortunately not. See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4618 .

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

From the bug:


From the API refs:
....

:eek:

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Official landscape support only = the "N900" not being a phone for certain. If I have to use both hands for most tasks due to UI constraints, it's worthless as a phone.

Terrific.

Another hope smashed - right in line with poorly executed Ovi services, Symbian/S60 v5 and its half-assed UI implementation, and the generally "a generation behind" hardware Nokia has planned for the next time...
Seems like they need to have another <30% market share dip like in 2004 before they wake up...

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

could be that the parts that do phone (dailer for instance), if any, is designed for portrait...

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Why is so hard for Nokia to create a nice GUI. Since N810 launch passed 2 years... since iPhone launch passed 2 years... they could have done a nice UI in that time if they started to write that from scrach... Maybe they should move all the software development to Russia or Romania or other Eastern European country - they have very good software engineers... if not, move everything to US but the development price will be 10 times more expensive...

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Could be, but that doesn't really solve the problem imho - I want to be able to type a quick "OK" SMS one-handed while I walk down the street and hold an umbrella in the other hand, for example. Or skip to the next song. Or change the music's volume. Or read an incoming mail. Or...or...or...

With a phone, being able to do small things like that with one hand only is paramount to me, and with a like 95% landscape-only UI this is simply not possible.

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

And i fo not think there is anything stopping them from making that happen, tho it may be that the apps in question presents a special "portrait" ui rather then trying to reflow the "landscape" ui...

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

The problem with many companies that develop software isn't a lack of ideas or a lack of good engineers ... often its misquided managers or a very poor development process that causes the issues. Not much a programming peon can do when idiot project managers control everything. :-(

Thankfully, I'm not in that position at the moment. :) But I have been, and know many others who are.

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

No big deal, but a Computerworld writer making my point; in his words: "Hardware doesn't matter. Network is everything."

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

The biggest issue i have with my n810 is the browser which for an Internet centric device just plain sucks. its too slow and hangs easily. plus the lack of tab support is a real deal breaker .. its almost as if nokia is trying hard to put a cap on the success of this device which is a real shame.

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

bigbrovar, install the alternate browser called Tear

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

optionally, webkit-eal...

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

"my only disappointment is not being able to play videos downloaded from www.ted.com without needing to convert them (a faster CPU would make it a little more smooth). "

Sorry I'm so late reading this. But, these beautiful interfaces all come at the expense of the tiny CPU and memory. It's not just Canola, but that one is the worst. I like to stream a lot. That requires a lot of CPU power. Fast stream video made it balk awfully until I learned to unload the glitz and use mplayer's simple interface raw. I even use it on World99TV streams on KMPlayer. These streams start balking, too, as soon as the video becomes busy. Here's how to get smoother video, even on FAST-playing DivX movies:

If you're going to play a movie off a card or internal memory, simply open mplayer directly, point to the movie on the simple list and click PLAY and it will play fine....No DivX movie from usenet makes it balk IF THE MOVIE IS THE ONLY THING PLAYING. If you get balking, unload the applets, like the weather applets calling home, as they make it balk. Less Applets, the better. It's only a 400 Mhz machine!

If you're going to play a stream, say from a webpage, copy the stream location to memory, but do NOT close the app you got it from or it simply disappears!...a stupid problem never solved..... Open mplayer's simple interface and use the PASTE function in the lower left of the keyboard to paste the location into mplayer's URL box. NOW, go back where you got it from and close the app it came from, even the browser which is constantly cramming new spams and sucking up the cpu cycles. Once you have the app closed down, click PLAY on mplayer and notice how smooth the formerly unwatchable TV station or online movie runs....with the CPU working on the STREAM, not servicing all the FLUFF.

All the media players cause the same problem. Get rid of their load and everything runs better.....(c;] I know, it sucks but that's the reality of such a small multitasking machine.....akin to an old 486 PC.

Why maemo deletes what I've copied to the clipboard when I close the app I got it from is just crazy, but it does it. Copy the URL of a WorldTV99 station to clipboard, close KMPlayer, paste that URL into mplayer....it's blank...erased. Stupid....

Re: The "Ecosystem": Why I can’t recommend an N8x0 or N900 to my friend
 

Granted the tablets do get bogged down for short periods occasionally, as does just about any other computer, but please bear in mind the current N8x0 date from 2 and a bit years ago now, and everything, especially expectations have moved on since then.

If we are sticking to Media Players as an example, then in my case at least I find the worst offender is the built-in player. Canola and Media box are both much snappier. Granted, there is a overhead, and that can highlighted best in both players when trying playback video which is right on the limits for Mplayer.

A couple of guys at work have iPhones, and 1 a G2 phone, and my N800 holds up very well against either newer design. What lets the tablet down is not the hardware, but poorly presented and inefficient applications, especially from the commercial side (Nokia, Wayfinder). The overall user interface is not consistant enough at the minute for the average consumer in my opinion.