GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

I've been looking for something to do with my girlfriend and her nieces this coming weekend when we're up in Lake Tahoe and - it just struck me that it might be a great idea to try out geocaching.

The girls are 8 and 9 years old and are pretty much constantly tethered to their DSi's and surprisingly tech-savvy (they figured out how to work my N810 the other weekend without me even telling them how...) so this might be something that will combine a bit of gadgetry, outdoors fun and a sense of adventure :)

I've read a bit about the application GPXView and that looks very tempting. I love the idea of having a directory of caches with directions/photos and hints. Wonderful!

Thing is, I've never used my N810 for anything GPS-related apart from turning it on and looking for it searching for a location fix :)

What do I need to start?

My assumption is:

1) I need to have Maemo Mapper installed and the maps for the area downloaded.
Q: Where do I get maps that are of a level of detail that is suitable for geocaching?

2) I need to get something called .gpx maps.
Q: Do I view those maps through the Maemo Mapper application?

3) I'm a little bit worried about the reliability of the GPS in the N810. I will obviously not drag the girls deep into the woods requiring a GPS to find my way out...I'm mostly thinking about disappointment in them if it fails us.

Anyway, any step-by-step for kick-starting my geocaching would be greatly appreciated as I'm hoping to do a trial-run on my own tomorrow afternoon if I can get all the necessary pieces together.

Thanks in advance.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

GPXView will load the .gpx or .loc files for GeoCaching. I haven't used it (yet) for geocaching, but I entered in some coordinates and used the compass to navigate while driving.

A good combination would be Maemo Mapper to get a visual representation of where you need to go (with street view, satellite and topography maps if they are all still working) and GPX view for a more traditional geocaching experience.

One catch to get the compass to work correctly is you need to be moving so the GPS can tell which direction your heading in order to calculate which way you need to go. I think there is an option to lock the compass.

If you sign up to geocaching.com you can search and download geocaches in .loc format (.gpx with a subscription). These can then be imported to gpxview. There is an option to check all and download at the bottom of the page after you do a search.

As for the reliability of the GPS, if your really worried, you can get an external bluetooth, but I've never really had any problems with the GPS. Once you get a fix, it holds that fix pretty well. Unless you go somewhere that messes up the signal (blocked or reflected GPS signals) that you should be fine. The only place I've encountered unreliable GPS data is when driving in downtown areas of big cities.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Thanks, this will be my project for tonight.
Too bad that the gpx maps requires a subscription. I'd be a very infrequent user until I've figured out if I, or the nieces, like this.

Thanks again..and to the download page I go :)

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

I just started doing geocaching maybe a week and a half ago. I thought it would be fun for the family... but I'm not too sure. My kid just got bored of the looking around... frustrated when we couldn't find a few caches because the N810 GPS isn't as good as I would like. It's great until you get under about 10-20m away and then it's anyone's guess.

My wife has really taken to it... and I'm enjoying it. If you're going with your family, I suggest a self-imposed time limit on each cache to avoid the kids getting frustrated... and perhaps a more accurate external GPS unit.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Thanks, I'm going to try it out - assuming I can get all the things I need installed tonight. There seems to be about 10 caches just w/in 10 miles of where I am so should be easy enough to try it out tomorrow...

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

G'day silvermountain,

I've been using a N810 for geocaching for about a year now; once you get yourself set up, it's a great tool for the job. Just don't drop it in a puddle!

To answer your questions:
- I use Google's maps. Before I go out, I fire up Maemo Mapper and just drag the screen over the area I want to visit; the maps get downloaded over my home WiFi link, and saved onto the MicroSD card in the N810. When I'm out, I can start up Maemo Mapper and all the maps are there. As you probably know, Google Maps come in a variety of resolutions, and you only want to download maps in 1 or 2 resolutions or you'll fill up your MicroSD card. Here in Australia, I'm using the "zoom=6" and "zoom=8" maps; one gets me to the general area, and the other lets me zoom in to get a greater level of detail. However, we're generally out caching in the bush here, where there may be only 1 road stretching for 30 miles between caches; it's probably different where you are, so you really need to use trial and error to see what works for you
- I download .gpx files from the geocaching.com site. To view them in Maemo Mapper, you need to first filter out all of the log entries in the .gpx file; if you don't do this, they won't load properly. Once you've done this, I start Maemo Mapper, and load in the .gpx file as a POI (Points Of Interest) file - the cache locations then show up as purple dots in Maemo Mapper
- I've found the N810's GPS to be extremely reliable (in fact, it does a better job than one of our dedicated Garmin units), but the battery life isn't great. I think I probably get about 4-5 hours before the batteries go flat, so I've got a Nokia charger set up in the car. When we finish a cache, I get into the car, hook the N810 to the charger, then go on to the next cache

To filter the log entries out of the .gpx file, I wrote a Ruby program which can run on either the N810 or on a PC. I had to download Ruby onto the N810 to get it to work, which was a bit painful; however, it can be done if you can find the Ruby installer for the N810 (sorry, I don't have the URL). If you want a copy of this program, let me know - it's pretty clunky, but works reliably and can strip the log entries from a .gpx file containing hundreds of cache entries within a few minutes. If you want to go out tomorrow, I'd suggest downloading a .gpx file for just a few caches, then deleting the <log> entries using something like Notepad. It's a bit trial and error, but you'll know you've got it working when you can load and see the caches within Maemo Mapper.

Finally, my boys are 11 and 12, and geocaching is one of the few remaining activities that we all enjoy doing as a family. My older boy would otherwise be out kicking a ball around, and my younger boy would play with his DS or be on the Internet - geocaching is one of the activities that just seems to work for all of us, all the time. Good luck, and I hope you have as much fun with it as we do.

If you want to communicate with me on geocaching.com about any of this, our caching name is "monch's mob".

Regards

David aka monch1962

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

The main thing i do with both my n800 and my n810 is geocaching. These 2 devices have lead me to over 500 find in 5 states. For a first timer i would suggest going for ones that are 1/1 or maybe 2/2 max (terrain rating / hide difficluty). And if you are going to bring kids try to do some of the larger caches because kids love the idea of trade items (where you trade something you have for something in the cache).

Now to your Questions.

I use anywhere from level 9 to about level 5-6 to drive around looking for caches. Level 9 is for when you are driving around on highways and Intersates. The lower the level the slower you need to be driving to prevent overshooting.

For your first time having GPX files would be great but don't go off and pay 30 bucks for one weekend. If you and/or your family becomes addicted the 30 buck is worth the money just because of the time it saves you. If you PM me with the zip code of where you are staying i will happily make you a GPX file for your trip.

The GPS on my N810 built in gps is good enough for your first shot at The Game. Watch out of heave tree cover and tall pine tree because they will kill your gps signal. I like using the bluetooth puck that came with the navacore system to prevent power drain from the N810. If your n810 starts saying low battery turn around ,walk out and charge it (its not worth getting stuck somewhere). the N810 does not have the longlife that the n800 has on low power.

Step by Step.
1. install GPXview and Maemo Mapper
2. download caches in ether GPX or LOC format to your N810. (GPX is better because it has all the info in it from the cache page.) Make sure it is in an easy to find to folder.
3. Lanch GPXview
4. Add you downloaded files to GPXview by
- menu
- import
- File/folder (File for something like a Pocket que (GPX) with 500 caches and folder if you have a lot of individual LOC/GPX files)
- Select what file/folder to import and wait
5. Select and open file/folder
6. Export to maemo mapper
- menu
- export
- Meamo Mapper POI
7. Find and select the nearest small, full sized or large cache (best size for first timers) with a max of a 2/2 rating. Use the Maemo mapper symbol in the Goto tab of GPXview to center maemo mapper on that cache.
8. Switch to Maemo Mapper to drive to withing a reasonable walking distance of a cache (no more then 100-200 yards with small kids). Use the compass in the goto TAB of GPXview to get from your parking spot to the cache. If you are looking for a larger cache, like an ammo can, you should see it or its hiding spot from about 10-50 feet.

Things to remember while Geocaching.
1. start slow. This is going to take some time to get good at it.
2. Keep safe. No cache is worth an injury (Not even a First To Find)
3. Have Fun. This is just a game. The fun is in seeing out of the way places and things while hunting small treasure chests full of cheap toys.
4. Protect the cache. Don't cause someone that does not know about geocaching to find the hide. Most of the low rating ones will not require spy like stealth.

Have fun on your first GPS vacation. May all your adventure be grand and full of fun and treasures.

If you need more help massage me here or 'bigscot' on geocaching.com

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

If you use GPXview to export the GPX to Maemo Mapper there will be no need to go and strip the logs out. And as an added bonus the cache type is the POI marker.

Monch1962 is right on with the power limitations. The more you can charge it on the road the better off you will be.

ALSO do not be discouraged by DNFs (did not find), they happen to the best of us and will happen to you.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Thanks for the reply!
My N810 is actually 'dead' right now, it ran out of juice and it's almost 2am here so I'll charge it up as I go to sleep.

Trying to download a map at say, level 12, results in an error saying 'Failed downloading 12 maps'. I keep getting that error message when trying to download maps.
Seems to happen mostly with Google maps...but not consistently...weird.... Oh well, I got SOME maps down.

EDIT: I just was able to download a lvl 8 Yahoo Satellite map. Looks good but will absolutely need something..closer to the ground..

Yes, I can see how I would benefit from a more detailed map but it also appears that any map at zoom level 5 or more granular will be enormous!

Thanks, great heads-up. I'll see if I can figure out what the log entries are and delete them in some text editor on the N810.


Great to hear it's reliable - I'm just having a heck of a time getting a fix/lock. Then suddenly it happens..maybe 10-15 mins later. I'm hoping I'll have a better luck tomorrow when I'm outdoors with it.

Finally, I wish geocaching.com would allow new members to download 1 or 2 gpx maps for free to get a feel for how it works following the directions.

Thanks again!

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Nice, thanks!

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

We use a two-pronged approach with the n810 and an eXplorist 500. GPXview has much more information than is stored in our gps unit. I've made this ridonkulous gauntlet affair to hold the n810 on my arm and my partner in crime uses the GPS. The n810 is best to get us into the area, but once there, having read the logs and the hint, the "real" gps is used to get us right to the cache.

We've found a few with the n810 alone, but it's not accurate enough in rocky terrain or forest.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

If you haven't already, install A-GPS and make sure the cache data is valid. When you start up Maemo Mapper, instead of seeing 0 of 0 satellites, it should say something like seeing 0 of 9-12 satellites. A-GPS will let Maemo Mapper know what to look for, which generally results in getting a faster lock.

For the quickest fix time, make sure you have a clear view of the sky (preferably towards the equator)

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Google Maps and Maemo Mapper have not been getting along as of late. here is a link to a thread with more info: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...750#post271750

Mainly i use Google Street for my caching adventures, the only reason i would pull out satellite view is to scope out an large open area with lots of muggles or find the best dirt road to get to the cache. Getting much lower this level 5 is a getting bit too close unless you are only trying to use Maemo Mapper as your primary cache hunting tool. Even then all you are trying to do is match up the blue dot with the cache POI.

If you love having sat images i would suggest hybrid maps. It is the best of both worlds and would not take up as much space as having both. The idea of having to Download the entire area at level 5 is rediscussed, just get a good level that will get you around like 7-9 (POI markes are removed at level 10) and drill down in and around the cache site. Also, remember that Sat images are older then you think and you should not only rely on them.

The way i get around having to pre download the maps is i do it on the fly with a celllphone tethered to my N800. it allows me to go almost seamlessly between street and sat and allows me almost 100% zoom.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

I exported the loaded LOC file from GPXVIew to Maemo Mapper...but when IN Maemo Mapper I can't seem to find the POI that I thought now was added. It's as if it's not there :(

If I go to where I saved the exported file and try to import it to Maemo Mapper it says it can't parse the file.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Apparently somewhere between June of last year and today they broke loc export. Sorry.

Edit:
Ok i just tested it. loading a single loc files take a the same amount of time to load as 100 cache GPX file. Trying to load a set of 90 loc caches was about crashing the n810. Do the export with maemo mapper off to save cpu power and the export will auto launch Maemo Mapper. I will try to load a multi cache loc file later.

Edit 2:
If you create a loc file with 20 caches in it (i will go throuth how to further down) it loads really fast.

Create large count loc files:
1. go to the page with the caches in your area.
2. scroll down to the bottom part of the page
3. click 'check all' then click 'download waypoints'
4. Load like i described (treat as a file)
5. have fun Hopefully

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

hey and thanks.
we (gf and one niece) just 'finished'. im actually at a library right next to it typing this on the N810 courtesy of the free wifi here.

Since i was not able to import a POI into maemo mapper (after exporting the loc file from gpxview) we ended up just using gpxview for general directions to the place - which was in a park about 1-2 miles away.
when we got to the park gpxview guided us to within approx 50 feet of where the cache was supposed to be.
all was great and both niece and gf were having a great time.
but this is where it kinda went south.
the gps in the n810 were not able to guide us any more precise than that. even standing still the co-ords and distance to cache kept changing with up to 50-60 feet in any direction.
we spent a good 30 mins trying to poke around the area but were unable to find anything.

it does make me question how well the N810 can work on caches as the lone gps device - but im going to see if i can get a poi placed on maemo mapper and the comnination of that and gpxview may work.

the rating od this cache was 1/1

question: so if the auto import for loc files exported from gpx viewe isnt working anymore what editor could i use to manually edit these files? normal Notes didnt want to pick up the files.

thanks again...

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

If you manually enter the GPS coordinates (copy/paste from gpx view or type manually) you should be able to place the POI in Maemo Mapper. Kind of roundabout, but if the auto export to Maemo Mapper isn't working...

There is also the chance that geocache is no longer there, for whatever reason. I guess that's the chance you take when looking for things in public areas.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Like i said last night do not get discouraged by DNFs, they happen. You may have to try 2 or 3 caches before you get the eye for the game. Also Public Area Urban caches get muggled quite often. If you are having trouble getting to within 20 or so (20 feet is close enough to hunt the container but the closer the better) feet try holding the n810 away from your body to allow for a better signal. Also make sure you did not lock the compass by tapping on it inside of GPXviewer. A 1/1 micro has even outsmarted me before. Also do not forget to read the cache page there is almost always some useful info on there.

You will get a smiley some day soon :)

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Lol thanks yeah, I'm downloading some loc files tonight.

Speaking of loc-files. I am still unable to get them loaded into maemo mapper.

So far I've tried;
a) Exporting the loc file from GPXView (to maemo mapper) - but when trying to import the POI from the created db-file I get an error saying that the file can not be parsed,

b) Using geoPOI to read in the loc file and generate a db file. When trying to import that file into maemo mapper..same error message.

ANY help on how to load/convert a loc file so that it can be read by maemo mapper would be greatly appreciated :)

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

That sounds like a problem with your maemo mappers install. If you are using default folders for maeme mappers poi (where GPX view dumps the database: docs/maps/gpxview_poi) then the process should be everything should be almost automatic. Try a full uninstall and reinstall to see if it gets fixed.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

It worked for me when I changed POI-database (in maemo mappers settings) to point the file GPXView made, so reinstalling should not be needed.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Great - changing the database worked perfect!

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Ok..so....went out with the GF tonight in hopes of finally finding a geocache.

Once again I picked a lvl 1/1 so it should be easy.
It had been found just two days earlier.
I had a lock on 9 satellites.
So all was looking good...

The cache was about a mile away so we just walked over there.
I used maemo mapper and had hybrid maps down to lvl 2.

But, when getting to the general area where the stash was supposed to be the same frustration set in.

GPXView program: Just standing still the compass basically changes direction every second. N, S, E....you name it. My 'distance' to the POI was 10 feet and then the next second 50.
I help the N810 straight out and had a clear sky above me.
In the end GPXView was rather useless [for me] when using a loc file.

Maemo Mapper: The benefit here is that you get a POI icon on the map. Using a hybrid map it was fairly easy to see where it should be.
But the lack of detailed and consistent guidance from the GPS in the N810 failed to deliver me to the target.

I seriously doubt that I will ever use the N810 for geocaching again - which is pretty sad as it SEEMS really fun.

My experiences is not that the caches are hard to find or are gone - it's simply that the GPS in N810 is not accurate enough [for me] to enjoy this with. Standing still and it showing that I am 50ft away one second and 10 the next makes it not possible to use.

I'm curious if it's just me though...so I started a poll here

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Yes, you are right GPXViews compass doesn't work if you are standing still. This is a basic problem with any GPS as a GPS only knowns which direction you are moving. If you stop moving the direction stops working. You can touch the compass in GPXView and it locks in place. If you have a small cheap magnetic compass with you, you should use that together with GPXView in locked mode. Perhaps you should have a look at the iPhone. The latest version includes an electronic magnetic compass. Most advanced GPS units supposed to be used at low speeds (e.g. by pedestrians) include a magnetic compass. Unfortunately Maemo devices don't have this. They are thus only suited for fast moving navigation.

Two advices for a beginner:

- Search you first cache with someone who's experienced. An experienced geocacher knows how typical stashes look like.

- Take lots of time and patience. It's pretty normal to search for an hour or two. That's part of the fun. A geocache usually isn't supposed to be grab'n go

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

It is sad to see you are giving up after your second try. The best method for finding caches with the moment compass is the intersection method. come at the cache from one direction until you get close; then move away and off to one side and do it again until you get a general but small area to search. The GPS will not tell you to stop when you are standing on it, the GPS is to get you close enough to 'HUNT' for it. Remember Rome was not built in a day and you have yet to find a cache, I am betting your biggest problem is you have not found the cache eye you need to see good hiding spots. People how do not know something is there are to walk by it as if there was nothing there.

Could you post the GC number to the caches you are hunting and i will see if I can help you find some hints/clues.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Thanks for egging me on... ;)
I DID go out one more time tonight with the girlfriend...and...we...FOUND ONE !!!!


I must admit the feeling of finding it was very thrilling and now I want to go back to the one I tried yesterday as I just read that someone found that one just a few hours ago (ggrrr....).

So, I may not be putting my N810-geocaching on the shelf..quite yet :)

I used Maemo Mapper about 95% of the time as I still find GPXView to be rather useless for me - and it didn't exactly help that I received a note from the developer saying I was a 'complainer' about his tool.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

That's great news that you found one.

I can't say I blame the developer. Any GPS application is only going to be as good as the data it gets.

I've tried any number of gps applications on the n810 and while they are accurate enough for driving down a road, it's just not accurate enough to locate an item 1x1 foot or smaller that is intentionally hidden.

I find GPXView to be indispensible to me as a geocacher. At a geocaching event I showed off my ridiculous n810 mount and GPXView and the consensus was that despite the lack of accuracy, the combination of features and the sheer number of geocaches that can be stored in the database, it's excellent.

May I suggest you check out the Geomate Jr? It's an $80 single-purpose device that has gotten excellent reviews.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

I made Geocaching page in http://wiki.maemo.org/Geocaching. I tried to cover all areas what you need to know how to get in wonderful world of geocaching in Maemo devices. I hope that it will help beginers.

I hope that some native speaker fixes errors in my text. All other additions to it is also most appreciated.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

Thanks a lot! I'll link to this from my gpxview related pages.

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

I have my own question re: geocaching, and I thought I might as well post it to this thread...

Right now, I am looking at this from the point-of-view of *creating* a geocache instead of *finding* them. Long story short: when creating a geocache, it is important to state the most accurate GPS coordinates possible. For consumer-grade GPS devices, this means taking an 'average' of many points. To my surprise and delight, I discovered that my (now ancient) Lowrance GM100 GPS had a 'take an average' feature when adding a new waypoint.

So, my question is this (has it already been asked?): can Maemo Mapper take *multiple* GPS readings at a location, and use that it store the location of a new (geocache) waypoint? It would seem easy -- in principle -- to do this, right?

Re: GeoCaching Beginner Questions
 

GPXView has this kind of functionality. You can found it from tools menu.