Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Hey guys,


I'm just trying to get as much information as I can about Linux before I order the burned cd of the OS ( linux ubuntu) to use for my PC. I was so enchanted by the nokia n810 tablet(disperatly waiting for it in the mail still) and even more so by the Maemo community backing it that I wanted to go further with the full experience. I heard such good things about the OS that I can say I'm anxious to try it out, and if its any thing like the tablets system with all the cool things that can be added to customize and make it your own then I know it will be one of the best kept secrets I stumbled onto. If there is any help at all you can give me as a person looking to make linux my main OS, please do, I really want to learn more and do more with my PC, I no longer want to be a person that is parlous to the world out side of windows/Mac...



Thanks,:)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

My advice -- don't order any Ubuntu CD. Use Wubi to download & install it for free right w/i Windows. You may have missed my post in the other thread.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Another big shift when moving from Windows to Ubuntu: you don't generally get software by surfing the Web & downloading. You generally use the Add/Remove Software feature. There's a lot there, all free -- like you're in candyland.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Part of the beginner Linux explanation, I have these 2 questions, I read something on wikipedia but cannot get this straight:

1) If compared Debian, Fedora, Slackware, etc, what is the diffrence on the architecture (APIs / libraries / components)?
Can they be compatible at application level on the same processor architecture?

2) On what distrib is Android linux OS based? Debian, Fedora, Slackware, ...? Maemo being Debian.

Thanks

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Thanks buurmas, I hope i dnt annoy you with any further questions...

like whats the difference in wubi and the ubuntu sites download as far as funtionalty, will i be able to only dual boot or do i have the choice, like the ubuntu site download. also i just downloaded the wubi and it had a menu for installation size, is that how much space it need to occupy...

the only thing holding me back from just making the transition now is that i have some things on my pc that i would like to transfer and not lose but other then that i would do it now, if there is any way to transfer data from vista to ubuntu please let me know (its just pic's & movies that are the most important thing really)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

If you want to try mandriva (IMHO it's better than ubuntu, but then it's just my opinion) you can find some documentation for beginners here.
I suggest you download the kde4 version of Mandriva Linux One 2009 Spring, so you can try it before installing it.
If you don't want to burn a cd, you can use Mandriva Seed to create a bootable usb stick.
(The link is for the windows version, there's also a linux version, but it's easier to just dd the iso image to the usb stick).

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

not bad luca,


I went to the link and also to youtube to see it in action, it doesnt look to much different then ubuntu... in your opinion whats the main differences that make it better? i didnt know linux had so many OS's ... i really wouldnt mind either one, ubuntu or mandriva but i've seen more and heard more about ubuntu and i guess from what i've seen basically it seem like it would be a easy transition but again thats just based on what i've seen and from quite a few linux users too.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I have found the gentoo installation documents very nice and helpful when learning the innards of Linux... If you are not in a hurry of getting it running right away, installing gentoo linux following their install guide can be very educating experience.

www.gentoo.org

In the past (many years ago) when I started experiment with Linux the Gentoo was the only distro that I was able to boot my PC. (All others I tried just locked up or something... never got to a console.) Therefore I took the challenge and did install Gentoo from scratch. It started from the disk partitioning steps, compiling kernels, and downloading and compiling all the apps to use. While it really takes a lot more time than just extracting some precompiled packages on a CD, compiling on the fly you can use optimized CPU flags, include/omit packages you need or don't need, etc. The end result was a very nice and fast running linux machine that you actually knew what was there under the hood... It was nice feeling to be in control, just what the gentoo slogan says... :)

Maybe if you try first some of the "boring precofigured" distros and get bored with them, try gentoo next... ;)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Well, it's just that I've been using it for a long time, and when I briefly tried ubuntu it seemed less polished to me. Everybody is raving about "new" features of ubuntu, while mandriva had those long before it.
Anyway, today they're quite similar.

Well, you'll have to try for yourself and see which distribution you like most. It's not that you'll have to pay extra for every one you try ;)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

No problem at all.

Either way (Wubi or Live CD from a download site), you will be able to dual boot. Wubi is just simpler, IMO. With the download sites, the typical rigmarole is that you are downloading a CD image (ISO file), burning a CD ("Live CD"), booting the CD, and then following instructions to either install Ubuntu (or whatever flavor of Linux) over your existing operating system or (more likely) creating a partition and installing onto the partition so that you can dual boot.

Right -- the amount of space available to Ubuntu. You don't need a whole lot. I chose 30GB, and the only time I ran out of space was ripping DVDs.

You don't need to transfer anything, actually. You can leave your pictures & movies where they are and you'll be able to access them under Ubuntu using /host. See this.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Hi there, just a few suggestions from me as well. I don't know that much Mandriva (never tried it), but I've used Fedora and Suse quite a bit. I definitely recommend Ubuntu for a "first distribution" over those two.

Ubuntu is very user-friendly these days. From what I've seen in the other distros, the community support for newbies in Ubuntu (The Ubuntu Forums) is the best I've seen: www.ubuntuforums.org . Usually questions get replied to very fast by other users, even "dumb" questions get very friendly replies - none of the RTFM talk that used to be all over the Linux forums (and that I've sadly actually seen here too in the past).

I think Ubuntu's popularity among new Linux users is an asset to it: you will find that many people are asking the same, very basic, questions that you will think of too, in the forums. There's plenty of support if you just keep browsing the forums for whatever is on your mind. The forums have nice how-to's and explanation sections as well. For a first step into Linux, I think it's great. (For what it's worth, I started with Red Hat 9 and would've loved to see the type how-to's they have now in the Ubuntu forums back then.)

Wubi was already mentioned here. My recommendation is that you go try it: http://wubi-installer.org/ . It's a Windows program you can install, it will install Ubuntu for you under your Windows as an application and make an entry in your Windows startup menu for starting it. After installing it, you can boot straight into Ubuntu, Windows does not get started. However, it makes no changes to your hard drive partitions and does not touch your Windows data. Wubi is a brilliant piece of software for anyone wanting to try Linux without messing up their Windows. If you don't like Ubuntu, just delete Wubi from your Windows like you would remove any other program.

Live CDs and USB bootups are nice but they don't give you the performance that a hard drive install does (Wubi actually is a bit slower in accessing the disk than a native install due to filesystem issues but still, it's much much faster than a Live CD). So go try it, it's the best way to try Ubuntu. And IMHO, Ubuntu is the easiest way to get to know Linux. Remember to visit the forums, register and search for replies to problems often. (I'm there as well, same user ID).

Anyway, just my few euro cents here. Hope this helps =)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Also, with PuTTy (free-ware) running on your PC you can hook-up wirelessly to your Nokia tablet and get a window on your PC with the Maemo OS running in it. That's how I, for now, get a Linux environment to learn things on as I figure Linux out :)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Thanks Mara, I'll keep that in mind, I like your avatar by the way. its cute ( I love the tablets and the linux penguin is cool too lol)

I'll keep that distro in mind as well Luca thanks

you got it all coverd Buurmas, i'm a little worried that i might make some big newbie mistake but hopefully i wont...


with all these different "flavors" as they're called i dnt see why the world hasn't jumped on this OS and its vast intuativeness, its like i found a new religion, with nice ppl to help me all along the way, and they give me milk and cookies in the form of helpful hints (loving the milk and cookies guys thanks)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

phenominal Batpenguin! i am on it right now thank you so much...


as usual Silvermountain your advise also phenominal, thanks, when i get my tablet ( god please make the mail come faster!) i'll use it as well and let you guys know every step of the way in my road to Linux.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Minor plug here, but my site, Raiden's Realm (www.raiden.net) actually teaches people how to use Linux. It's our primary focus. On a side note, we're also working on a 5 part teaching series that helps introduce people to Linux. We plan to build it, and then give it out to others to use to help introduce Linux and FOSS to others. :)

But anywho, if you ever need Linux help, feel free to either PM me or stop by my site. :D

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

A couple of things to say to someone taking the plunge:
1.) Ignore the distro bickering. They're free, try one for a week and switch. It's difficult to know what feature of which distro will be "it" for you.
2.) Really give yourself time to acclimate.

I strongly recommend "In the Beginning was the Command Line." It's a great introduction to the community.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Funny story actually. My dad needed a Linux machine for doing some scripting work for his job, and he did not want to reboot his computer (I gave him a live cd, and he said "no, I am watching Hulu..."). So I got mad at him and told him if he wanted a Linux machine, he could SSH into my Nokia.

He looked at me and said "Your Nokia runs Linux? Whats the IP address?" Nokia to the rescue!


Oh, and just remember that Wubi, AndLinux, and other emulated linux (VMWare, etc...) are not really the experience. No graphics acceleration, shitty hardware support, etc...

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

From what I've seen, Ubuntu is by far the most popular Linux distribution. If I remember correctly, Google makes heavy use of it. Some of the Linux netbooks use it (e.g. Dell Inspiron Mini). However, Linux market share (vs. Windows & Mac) is somewhere around 3%. Why? There are many opinions. Here are mine. (Special note to Linux enthusiasts -- when I make this list, please understand that I have people like my dad in mind, people for whom (for example) using the command line is simply not an option. I'm aware that many of these issues have workarounds.)

Advantages:
* It's free! And all the programs are free!
* Almost no viruses target Linux.
* Feature set has developed so much over the years that it does most of what you want.

Disadvantages:
* It takes time for former Windows users to get used to different apps. "Used MS Office? Try OpenOffice.org." There are many web sites that help with this, though.
* Lots of Windows apps that obviously don't run, notably business apps & serious gaming apps.
* Many apps have a "by geeks for geeks" feel, with less-than-intuitive interfaces.
* Hardware support less extensive than Windows (well, XP at least!).
* Many people don't want to solve their computer problems by searching forums -- it's just not an option. They want to be able to call someone. In the Linux world these options are limited.

All that said, my parents are happy with Ubuntu. They are afraid of Windows b/c they are scared of viruses (which often succeed very well in fooling less savvy users). They can do e-mail, YouTube, blogs, read Office files, what more do you need? Just for the Webcam & the printer to work, that's all. ;-)

Re: the various Linux distros, yes, Linux is a world of diversity. Some of that diversity is fragmentation & duplicated efforts. (Can't some of them, like, merge?! ;-) ) But the flexibility allows Linux to be used in amazingly creative ways, including:
* desktops
* servers
* netbooks
* smartphones
* Internet Tablets ;-)
* boot from a CD
* boot from a USB drive
* MP3 players
* breathing new life into a five-year old laptop

and many more.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Wubi is a way to install a dual-boot Ubuntu system. I don't think it has the problems you mention. But I have tried Ubuntu virtual machines and was disappointed for the reasons you mention.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

just a quick update: I downloaded the wubi aforementioned by buurmas, it was excellently nice, i can say it will be very fun to feel my way around. just a few snags, but i just joined the ubuntu site that helps newbies and between here and there i will bonce around to find out how to tweak it. :o

"i havent been able to get the cool cube thing to work yet or succesfully change the LOOK of it to see how it would feel to have the setup like the guy from the youtube video i seen, with a setup similar to the "mac os desktop". I just like the lay out of it since eveything you need is at the little tray at the bottom of the screen with a neat and tidy desktop look i love, i'll keep trying, also i cant watch video's either even after i used the help menu and followed the steps to enable the two things you need for flash.":p

aside from that the funniest thing was how much i loved it but i felt so naked with out my CHROME... google chrome is my favorite browser but i never realized how much more it does for me until i had to use firefox. i dnt hate firefox but i'm not a huge fan. but for Linux i'll try to make due with what i can.:p


none the less i really really like what I'm discovering and was thinking... with all these extremly cool effects that linux has just for a desk top look, and to piggy backing off of one of the things in buurmas list.. "mp3 player," i wonder why no one has put the pretty effects on a nice device and won the mass consumer market over like the ipod touch has with its Pretty and easy interfcae to say the least, (pretty being the operative word when refering to the mass cosumer markets take on all things tech) they like it because its pretty, and pretty easy to use, but thats pretty much it.. dnt get me wrong nice device but its not the queen marry lol :rolleyes:

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

There's a project for using Chrome under linux right now: http://www.codeweavers.com/services/ports/chromium/ . No idea how well that works, tried it months ago and it was OK, but I prefer Firefox and all its nice add-ons. But Google is actually making a proper Linux version, too. No idea when that will be finished, but you'll have it sometime in the future if you're still with us in Linux land then :)

As for the desktop cube and other graphical effects, make sure you have accelerated graphics on: Restricted Drivers under Adminstrator menu, I believe, not at an Ubuntu machine now. Reboot and you should have them on, then you can start customizing your desktop effects, I think Preferences > Appearance or something like that.

I think you'll be sick of exploding windows and cubes in two weeks but the flashiest effects are great fun to play for a while. I used to drive my wife crazy with the wiggling windows for a bit before I got sick of them too :) And the other effects can actually be useful too, very slick looking.

As for videos, look up installing flash (for youtube) in the forums and look up installing VLC for watching other videos. Ubuntu should just prompt you for downloading proper codecs too if you try to watch videos with other programs or play mp3s/whatnot but VLC is a very nice program for video watching.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Oops, sorry I missed this. Can you link to what you enabled? Did you just try to go to Youtube and click on a video? At least in 32-bit systems I think it should prompt you to install flash. 64-bit may be a bit more tricky. Which one are you running?

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I'm runnig the 32-bit, (unfortunatly i'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll see what i can do to give you better insight) i didnt wana sound stupid in trying to explain because I downloaded it and messed with ubuntu a bit after my bed time so I cant remember fully but I think when I was given the message after I tried to view a youtube video; it gave a message and link to the actual flash site(which didnt work when I tried downloading form the site)... but I went to the help menu on the desktop and typed in "flash" and it gave me a few choices and steps for each. I enabled macro and sun something plug-in's if i'm not mistaken... sorry when i get home i'll be able to better explain.:o


ya i think i will grow tired of the over excessive effects but that clean, simple, and some what elagant/clutter free look is something i know i will want to keep (i.e http://images.apple.com/hk/en/macosx...ro20071016.png ) but hanks for reminding me about the chrome for linux i heard about it awhile ago but since i wasnt using linux i didnt pay much attention to it at the time, but trust me I think after some tweaking I'll be here to stay with linux, Thanks:D

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Well said! Yeah, distro bickering is rather silly. Most of it occurs between the elitists and the fanboys anyways, both of which I highly recommend everyone avoid at all costs. ;) Stick with the more level headed people when getting distro info.

And props too on the acclimation suggestion. I see far too many give up on Linux because they dive in expecting it to be just like Windows, and it's not, thank God. Some can take to it like a duck to water, and others take a little time of kicking it around the park before they get comfortable.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I'll chime in here too. Amen to both comments. As a Linux user and admin for something like 14 1/2 years, I have tried the bulk of the larger distributions, and I have my favorites. You will find that one distro or more fits your workflow better than the others. For instance, my preference is Debian for a number of reasons. To not belabor the point, you can PM me if you want my opinions. But don't let someone else's opinions change your opinion. Thats the beauty of the open source community. It is open, so your opinion matters.

Also, in addition to Lord Raiden's site, there is a ton of Linux documentation out there, most of it free. I invite your attention to the following sites:

The Linux Documentation Project - http://www.tldp.org
The Debian Documentation Project - http://www.debian.org/doc/ddp
The Gentoo wiki - http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/

The nice thing is that most of the documentation can be transliterated to your distribution. I have used docs from Gentoo to accomplish tasks on Debian or Redhat machines.

Now if you learn better by audio, you might want to check out one of the many fine podcasts available for download.

Dann from the Linux Link Tech Show maintains a list of Linux podcasts at http://www.thelinuxlink.net/. [shameless plug] My not currently active podcast is the Armored Penguin[/shameless plug]. A couple which would probably stand you in good stead would be Linux Reality (no longer produced, but all 100 episodes are still available), Free Linux Help Line, Productive Linux and Going Linux.
In addition, you can look around for Linux screencasts. In fact, some of the podcasters do screen casts of their shows.

Hope that helps,
--vr

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

that really does help guys thanks a lot, I think i learned how to just listen and gather the information i need dispite some ppl who take a simple thread and make it into a dispute from this site sadly:( as much as I love talking about the n8x0 and other topic's about it I was verbally slashed a few times when commenting (opening my big newbie mouth) in the middle of a heated topic, while the big wigs of this site were trading lethal blows, so to speak lol, but i kindly bowed out, so it cool I appriciate all advice and read enough forums to know how easily things can get two sided or how you can be virtually mobbed:eek:... but in any case thanks alot guys, now i just cant wait till this weekend when i have plenty of time to figure this out.:o

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Don't let it put you off. Keep learning and keep asking your questions. As with any segment of society, there are a certain percentage of people in the Linux and open source community that are just ***holes. Don't let them dissuade you.

--vr

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I wont, because I love tech/gadgets and have an annoying detremination to educate myself, and because I was always taught the more you know the further you go and I dnt like to limit myself for anything... thank you for the encouragement:)

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Linux distributions are actually just collections of software and system libraries.

Most of those pieces of software and system libraries are created by individual projects which are completely independent of any Linux distribution, and the distribution maker links the products of these projects together via distribution-specific installation and administration tools in an effort to make things easier and more consistent for an end user.

While the Debian folks (for example) might provide their own version of Firefox (for example) in their own .deb package format, that software is almost completely identical to the .rpm version of Firefox found in Fedora. The main difference is typically the format of the package, not the included software itself.

If you're running on a specific architecture (say a 32-bit x86 compatible CPU), the same generic software package (normally in .tgz or .tar.gz format, known as a "tarball") can be used on several different distros.

I've installed software from the same tarball and run it on Puppy, Ubuntu, Mandriva, and Austrumi Linux, for example. Worked just fine as long as the required libraries are all present ... or I was able to hunt the missing ones down and install them. That's how the commercial version of UT2004 is able to run on several different distros ... it tends to use fairly standard libraries, and its installation routine provides the things it depends on that might not be present on a given system.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I figured it out, I had to give the (?) or help menu a better read, when I typed in the word flash it gave me the the option to due a few things dealing with flash. I picked the one for viewing video and just add the plugin for marco media and sun java so now I'm watching youtube and other video on ubuntu:D... I had to sit for a bit and have patience but thats what windows does to ppl, it makes them impatient and forget to read direction when trying to figure things out:p

now all I have to do is try to find out how to update firefox to the 3.5 version and I'm set...thanks

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

Ugh reading this makes me want to give linux another spin, but mt graphics card does NOT play nice with it.
Cheap intergrated stuff.

I'd reccomend giving windows 7 a test drive. I enjoy it immensley.

Re: Linux for an OS, Beginners Guide...
 

I actually have windows 7, but for some reason was not able to get it to boot using the disc a co-worker gave me... I took that as a sign from the tech deity that I don't need it, I've seen it and got to use it on another computer though its very nice but I'll continue on with the Linux learning.