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-   -   Article on Nokia Slowing Down (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30626)

Texrat 2009-08-03 19:14

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 308525)
I'm curious: what steps do you think Nokia should have taken? How could this have been fixed?

I'll only speak to the US market.

The potential fix was in the feedback. Not just the stuff I was mining but info made readily available from a variety of sources. Demographic data that revealed to not just Nokia but any potential supplier just what American citizens wanted. Our surveys were flawed (the ones I saw) but even worse was our advertising-- nearly non-existant and poor when it was there. But customers, nonetheless, were talking.

Apple listened.

RIM listened.

Nokia shut its collective ears, and let those two seize a market it should have owned, in blinding speed.

Ragnar, many of the details are things you and I can only discuss in certain confines, certainly not in a public forum-- because what I have to say reveals far too much about Nokia internals. So hopefully you and I can talk in Amsterdam if my sponsorship is approved?

Anyway, it's public knowledge that in the US Nokia faltered on releases it could not afford to (N80, N75 for 2 examples) and bottom line failed to incorporate the needs of both end users and most critically the big service providers like AT&T and Verizon. Some of this was caused by CDMA IP issues with suppliers like Qualcomm, but bottom line Nokia allowed it to impact success in the US which helped allow competitors to gain a foothold.

I think it's safe to say Nokia should not have been caught by surprise by the iPhone. The groundwork for its own product had been laid with the 7710.

As for RIM, are any of us surprised that services matter?

Not sure if this reply is helpful for you, but again, I would be glad to gripe more privately. ;)

karatchov 2009-08-03 19:17

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
I think that what Nokia needs besides good hardware (which is actually provided), and good software (seems to be working on ?), is to care about developers.

I mean, to give the same importance the "developer experience" as the "user experience".
It have to make it easier to develop or to start developing for maemo/symbian .
It have to provide tools for major platforms, good documentation and a good system for publishing/selling applications. I'd say something like the AppStore, but without all the AppStore nonsense.
If Nokia can provide an outstanding and attractive development solution, and create a good business opportunity for developers, it will rule the world .
To see what I mean, take a look at how many questions were asked on stackoverflow containing the following tag:
iphone --> 5,793
maemo --> 4
symbian--> 113

I know that StackOverFlow.com isn't the best place to compare the number of developers for these platforms, but these numbers are expressive.

Texrat 2009-08-03 19:20

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by karatchov (Post 308540)
I think that what Nokia needs besides good hardware (which is actually provided), and good software (seems to be working on ?), is to care about developers. [snip].

That's in the works NOW.

Should it have happened sooner? I think so... but again, the Titannic was very slow to turn... :D

daperl 2009-08-03 19:34

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ysss (Post 308529)
IMHO, iPhone was the perfect device to break the cartel. Why? Because it's actually a trojan horse.

How is the iPhone any more of a trojan horse than a Symbian, Android, WebOS or WinMo phone?

Texrat 2009-08-03 19:39

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Not to speak for ysss, I'd call it a trojan horse because it came with a solid, ready-made developer environment that Nokia is just now beginning to seriously cultivate. That plus iTunes. CONTENT is king... and the iPhone has turned out to be one of the best bearers and conveyors of content.

That said, the small number of Symbian apps compared to iPhone apps *could* speak to quality over quantity... but if that's even close to the case, it's still something Nokia needs to present better.

vvaz 2009-08-03 19:46

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 308542)
Should it have happened sooner? I think so... but again, the Titannic was very slow to turn... :D

Be careful with your metaphores :)

It was that turn which sank Titanic...

daperl 2009-08-03 19:54

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 308549)
Not to speak for ysss, I'd call it a trojan horse because it came with a solid, ready-made developer environment that Nokia is just now beginning to seriously cultivate. That plus iTunes. CONTENT is king... and the iPhone has turned out to be one of the best bearers and conveyors of content.

That said, the small number of Symbian apps compared to iPhone apps *could* speak to quality over quantity... but if that's even close to the case, it's still something Nokia needs to present better.

Yeah, but I was more interested in a trojan horse to do what? I'm in the U.S., without legal tethering, an iPhone contract would actually more than double my data costs. If it's not going to cut my data costs in half, what kind of cartel-busting will it be doing?

sachin007 2009-08-03 19:56

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 308538)
I'll only speak to the US market.

The potential fix was in the feedback. Not just the stuff I was mining but info made readily available from a variety of sources. Demographic data that revealed to not just Nokia but any potential supplier just what American citizens wanted. Our surveys were flawed (the ones I saw) but even worse was our advertising-- nearly non-existant and poor when it was there. But customers, nonetheless, were talking.

Apple listened.

RIM listened.

Nokia shut its collective ears, and let those two seize a market it should have owned, in blinding speed.

Ragnar, many of the details are things you and I can only discuss in certain confines, certainly not in a public forum-- because what I have to say reveals far too much about Nokia internals. So hopefully you and I can talk in Amsterdam if my sponsorship is approved?

Anyway, it's public knowledge that in the US Nokia faltered on releases it could not afford to (N80, N75 for 2 examples) and bottom line failed to incorporate the needs of both end users and most critically the big service providers like AT&T and Verizon. Some of this was caused by CDMA IP issues with suppliers like Qualcomm, but bottom line Nokia allowed it to impact success in the US which helped allow competitors to gain a foothold.

I think it's safe to say Nokia should not have been caught by surprise by the iPhone. The groundwork for its own product had been laid with the 7710.

As for RIM, are any of us surprised that services matter?

Not sure if this reply is helpful for you, but again, I would be glad to gripe more privately. ;)

I am totally pissed of by nokia's decison to stop developing touch screens after the 7710. Seriously it was right in front of them.... the future of mobile devices was touch screens. That was the most stupidest decision they ever took. After all they had billions of phones with key pad..... what is wrong in having some with touch screen?

Some day i would love to get to know the reason behind dropping support for touch screen phones.

nilchak 2009-08-03 20:00

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by qole (Post 308517)
I'll say it again. I know I sound like a crazy man, especially as the months go by, but... We here are privy to the seeds of a revolution. We're going to see a fairly standardized Linux distribution, backed by a big corporation, pushed into the mobile market in a huge way. The lines between PC and handheld are going to blur like never before.

Most of us here see this, but the industry will be blindsided. They won't know what hit them. The rules are going to change significantly. Until now, everything's been proprietary. The only threat to the iron control of the manufacturer-provider cartels were little hacker groups who made headlines when they 'jailbroke' or 'unlocked' phones...

Now, most everything will be open, INCLUDING THE TELEPHONY STACK. Just think of the power that gives developers and users to do what they want with the technology.

I've been repeating this since Summit 08; Maemo will change everything. You just wait.

While this sounds very good and optimistic, I don't see what a new hardware and a new (already existing) software stack is going to do to upend the market ? Really QT has been there before (used in other phones/PDA's too (like Trolltech Greenphone conceptphone) and Zaurus (in Qtopia form) - and none of these bring anything that turns the market on its head .

I still fail to see what new market changing form this new technology will bring.

Apple by virtue of its total control and its unique new device also didn't change the market - but just could wrest some control out of the ISP's and take it upon themselves instead. Android hasn't had any market changing effect.

I believe Google voice actually has some market changing potential, in the sense that it can actually render the Voice ISP's as dumb pipes (as what they should actually be), since nobody needs to depend of the ISP to control they voice number anymore.

And just bringing a slick UI is no more a differentiator anymore - now any and all UI seem to be trying the slick act, so I wouldn't give much weightage there.

Just a open telephony stack might be a good technology differentiator, but I still fail to see how it is market disruptive in any way.

Or maybe you know more than most else ?

Texrat 2009-08-03 20:08

Re: Article on Nokia Slowing Down
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vvaz (Post 308550)
Be careful with your metaphores :)

It was that turn which sank Titanic...

The metaphor was intentional. ;)


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