How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

The success of Maemo 5 depends a lot on the applications available for it. Imagine all these users that will get a maemo 5 device for their first time: what difference would it make if they would find plenty of cool apps ready to be downloaded, and for free!

You can help making this happen:

1 - Think of your preferred Maemo applications.

2 - Go to their related talk.maemo.org thread, or to their http://maemo.org/downloads page or to their details dialog in the Application Manager. Whatever is the best way to reach the developers of those applications.

3 - Contact the developers asking them to have their apps ready for Maemo 5, pointing them to this thread, to the instructions to upload packages to maemo.org extras-devel repository, and to the extras-testing info page (they might not be aware of it).

Or simply said: get the developers of your preferred applications to put their nose in Maemo 5 if they haven't done it yet. They won't regret. :)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Since this is in General and not Developers...

Pardon me for asking, but what's in it for us users of current (well, "past"...) Nokia Internet Tablets (i.e. all of us current NIT customers) who've stopped getting Maemo updates already since early to mid-2008? :rolleyes:

Try motivating me.

(OTOH if/when Mer becomes usable and user-friendly enough for the existing customer-base, there should be interest in asking the developers to target that offshoot platform...)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

First off, I really do like the community aspect to the NITs - the hard work of developers that have made various apps is one of the things that has kept my devices things of everyday use.

BUT, with the expected wider-market launch of Maemo 5 and its device(s), is it still a reasonable expectation that these people should be doing it for nothing? Surely one of the reasons that the apple store apps have taken off so much is the opportunity for the devs to make some money? So asking people to make cool apps to be given away free by nokia is maybe not the right way to do things - especially if it's based around getting users to hassle them into it!

Wouldn't it be better for an official Nokia approach to them? maybe with some kind of incentive?

(I'm not a developer so not angling for a free device!)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

yes, agree with that too. It does kind of assume that we're all going to jump in on the new device, when it actually seems a lot of people here are in the same mind as me, ie passing on the phone and waiting to see if there's going to be a N8xx screen sized tablet or otherwise sticking with what we've got and waiting for mer...

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

1. A lot of Fremantle apps will work on Mer, since it has the new and updated APIs.
2. Because being active in the community helps the community, which in turn helps you.
3. Because being active in the community gets you rewards like possible future device discount vouchers, summit sponsorship.
4. Because the price of RX-51 might be so low as to entice you to buy one.
5. Because the features of RX-51 might be so mind-blowing you'll spend more money to buy one.
6. Because you don't want to spend all day trolling a forum like an arse? ;-)

For your average application developer, Mer isn't an offshoot.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Nokia aren't "giving cool apps away for free" - the authors are when they released it as open source. There have been recent discussions about monetary incentives thorugh an App Store-like approach here:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30799

One thing which Nokia could do to help would be to clarify if the Ovi Store is going to target Maemo 5 devices as well.

Every little helps, and there are incentives (or have been in the past), like discounts programmes (not just limited to developers!), summit travel & accomodation sponsorship and you're name in lights.

Don't underestimate the lure to a developer of having ones app and name up in lights.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

This thread made me register. I do not have the time to develop apps, but I would love to submit patches to Nokia. Ever since I moved from s40 to s60, I've constantly felt like I want to make small improvements to some of the more unpolished applications.

Here's my suggestion:

1) When you finally reveal the device and its UI, immediately release the code for the newest versions of the applications. Then let us submit patches, accept the best ones fast, and recompile the standard image before you start shipping devices. If you attract talented developers (I'm not saying I'm one of them), you will have a much more mature platform with extra polish and neat small features on day one. The developers get to have a better platform as users. Make sure reviewers get the final product.

2) For all the patches you don't accept due to being too complicated for the average user, implement them as compile time options and create a single separate repository that advanced users can activate. As an advanced user, I understand the necessity for easy to use defaults, but absolutely hate how I have to manually change hundreds of things to customize apps. Maybe then I'll only need to change ten (no one will ever agree on everything). I think it's really important for you to cater to advanced users this time, because they shape opinions, and many of the less ethical ones are currently backing a certain closed as hell platform...

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Quim, the point is that there are a LOT of applications that I would like to see on Maemo Fremantle and they don't exist for N810 too.

Some of them are on the way (as far as I know), but we need stuff that doesn't exist yet. Do you want a short list? Ok.

1) A working, complete, easy to use and fast Facebook Client: not just a feed reader and status updater. Something that allow me to see comments, reply comment, post new photos (taken directly from the camera), post videos ecc... I don't mind if we don't have support for Facebook Applications (I hate them :P ) but at least the main features: status, feed reader, groups, photos, videos ecc...

2) Full integration of Flash Plugin with most famous websites: UStream.tv, Justin.tv, TinyChat.com ecc.... flash plugin must see the front camera and let us to use it for this services.

3) Supposing I can do a VOIP call with Nxxx, I really would like to have the possibility to record it to listen to it later.

4) Compare Everywhere app: an app similar to the one on Android: you take a picture of the barcode, the app check online and show you all the prices of that object so you know where is cheaper.

5) (I know this is a dream, but) native clients for: GMail, Google Maps, Google Talk (with audio/video support this time).

6) Possibility to upload our media to most know services (Youtube, Google Video, Flickr, Picasa, ecc...), not only to Ovi :P

Another point: leaving the door open to ALL developers, we should at least give more visibility (in the Application Manager) to "Freemantle Stars" application. Give a look at the current applications available for N810: there a lot of good apps, but there is also a lot of sh** :P

If a end-user who has never user a tablet, gives a look to all of those... well... I don't think it would me much impressed.

n.b: how to choose "Fremantle Stars"? Of course letting the community choose them (voting, sending feedback ecc...).

I'ts important that all developers can push their apps to Maemo respository, but we should give more visibility to "stars" and good one only, not to all.

That's all for the moment :)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

This is work in progress, see Shop-Mate and Maemo-Barcode.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Well, that's not the intent of this thread; but in its spirit, perhaps contact the authors of those apps and point them in the direction of the SDK, the RX-51 rumours and praise them to the hilt. A high-level wishlist is pretty much off-topic on this thread, though, I think.

The QA process will stop anything which is properly rubbish (rather than just not very interesting) from getting to Extras. The new "app karma" (to go with "news karma" and "user karma") will also help highlight the currently trending apps.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I think people are going OT with these posts.

The meaning of this thread is: do you want use Maemo Mapper when you have your Maemo 5 device? Well, then send a mail to the developers asking for that. If developers are receiving this interest for its users, they will be more open to start before the work, and before will be available for Fremantle.

I put the example of Maemo Mapper because is a popular application and AFAIK it hasn't code for Fremantle yet, but the same goes to your favorite application.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Both Ovi and Google Talk are XMPP, and they already cooperate. I would personally not waste time on Gmail and Google Maps either, because Google themselves already support s60, so you can bet they'll do it for Maemo too. As a user I'm happy with IMAP and Nokia Maps.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I apologize for any "trolling". Different arses on different lines perhaps.

Maybe Mr Quim could have added a footnote about Mer as well then, considering the current userbase.

Thanks, I didn't know that for certain, with all the Clutter/3D etc. differentiation.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

you know that for 2,3 and 5 is not possible with only the help of voluntary developers :)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

If Nokia hadn't already thought about them, it's probably too late. And it's off-topic for what this thread is about: see yerga's post above.

There are some often-used apps which aren't in extras-devel (let alone extras-testing) for Fremantle yet - this is a prompt to help nudge the authors in the right direction.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Well, I guess most developers already know about the existence of the Maemo 5 SDK. It's just that for many applications it's an awful lot of work and... anyways I'm always looking for help. Everyone can help even without coding skills. Website, icon, translations, testing....

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Hi livefreeordie,

Many (Diablo)/ some (Fremantle) modules have their sources (already) public. >80% of the "default, official software" on the N810 and its successor is/will be free.
Patches are definitely more than welcome (keep in mind that Nokia concentrates on Fremantle and Harmattan - patches for Diablo are more unlikely to get in except for the case that they still apply for Fremantle of course).
Just file a ticket in bugs.maemo.org, attach your (clean) patch, and add the patch keyword.
Looking forward to any submissions! :)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I think we are skipping some important points here. It's not just having good apps ported to Maemo, it's also about apps having a consistent look, optimized to run on the device, and takes advantage of the device's features.

Here's Palm's criteria on how they will approve apps (repeat post). Note #2, #4, and #5:

1. Apps should be useful and engaging to users.
2. They need to have an appealing design and user interface aligned with Palm UI guidelines.
3. They are written specifically for webOS and not delivered through the browser.
4. They leverage webOS platform and device capabilities, for example, notifications, multitasking/background processing, location services, accelerometer.
5. They have acceptable performance and response time on the device; apps with slow UI response or sluggish performance will be rejected.
6. Applications that consume excessive power on the device will also be rejected.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

There's also going to be a TON of bugs to verify against Fremantle. Can't wait to snack down on that sandwich. :)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Nice list Andy ....

You might want to update some of the apps which are common to other platforms (iPhone, Android, Pre etc) and update this Wiki list here

Applications You Wish Were Ported From Other Platforms

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Sure, but I was under the impression that there's a lot to the N900's UI and default applications that we haven't seen yet. Due to that, I don't see a reason to start playing with the existing SDK:s now (I don't own an old Maemo device). I'm sure the Fremantle beta SDK would be extremely useful, but only if I wanted to develop a full application. Am I wrong about this?

Qgil said "Imagine all these users that will get a maemo 5 device for their first time". This will not only be true for the available packages, but for the default install as well. I think many developers would be extremely motivated to submit patches within a short window of opportunity were you to give them an official chance to have their code on the shipping device. Even if you end up having to reject all the patches, the publicity would probably be great ;)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I think it's safe to say that anyone who has apps in extras is aware of Maemo 5 by now.

Rather than having random users contacting the developers requesting Fremantle versions (which will get old really fast) it would be much better to have a coordinated approach.

How about we list our favourite packages and project contact details in this thread and in a couple of days someone (Nokia, council or debmaster perhaps) could go around contacting the authors?

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

We've been doing that for a while now on the bits that are available in the pre-alpha .. beta SDKs, come and join the fun :-)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Seconded (obviously this only applies to the open ones). This has already worked well for modest & hildon application manager, and osso-xterm is now starting to see some patches too.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I'm really really hoping that the Fremantle browser will be fast and full-featured enough to avoid needing dedicated "clients" for all of the web services and applications like the iPhone and other devices. I would much rather have the "real" Facebook page than a Facebook app. Facebook chat would be nice to integrate into the system along with all of the other chat protocols (it is so great the way everyone duplicates functionality, eh?), but it sounds like that's already being done...

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

There was a discussion a while back about all of this. I'll use the example of Maemo mapper which was brought up a page back or so. But, Nokia has basically been so discreet with what will be included in Maemo 5 and the RX-51/RX-71 that some developers have stated that they don't want to waste their time coding for an alternative to a pre-installed software that may be already more up to date. So, for instance...why would the developer of Maemo Mapper spend their time working on porting that application if there is already going to be a equal or possibly more featureful mapping software included that they could instead contribute to?

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Bad example; Nokia is not going to do an app like full Maemo Mapper. If they do an online map viewer, it'll be probably hardcoded to a single map repository, and it'll have no track recording capabilities (so it'll suck for me and will probably be useless for the maemo mapper developers & main users).

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I was more or less thinking of Wayfinder, only free... Either way, my point was that there was a thread a while back with people complaining of this problem. The main point here is that more people will probably jump on board once everything has been revealed and it may be hard to convince them to contribute until then.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Maybe neatojones example wasn't the best (I don't know, actually) but his basic idea sounds right to me. For example, we have a number of not-so-good personal information manager apps (calendars, contacts, notes, etc., integrated together or not); why would a developer put effort into porting one of these until he knows that Nokia is not providing a pre-installed PIM? (And, hopefully, Nokia is.)

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

A bit off-topic, but as far as I can tell in Maemo Mapper, it's "just" a matter of coding it towards liblocation-dev instead of libgpsmgr/bt-dev (back when I experimented with MM on Mer and the new hildon).

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Hi there. Sorry, I wanted to say exactly what I said. :)

Yes, many Extras developers might know that Maemo 5 is coming but I think it's everybody's interest that a) they know about extras-testing and the new QA process with time and b) they realize that now it's a good time to promote their stuff to extras-testing.

I said they won't regret and I believe they won't regret.

Most of the current great Maemo apps are open source. Open source developers use to have their own motivations to develop that way. If the apps are cool and things go well, Nokia might help them getting more users and personal promotion than they ever had. There might be even other ways to help and compensate that effort, but usually oss developers are happy just because of the process and the things that come out of it.

Yes, there are many potential apps and features that could be developed but *you* (the average *you* following General) will have a harder time convincing an outsider. Of course if you want to do just that, go ahead! I just wanted to propose a simple action to the readers of this thread.

I can't believe a Maemo 4 developer would be upset after getting a lot of emails from old users and fans calling him to the Maemo 5 party.

... and yes, I believe this call benefits current Maemo users. Some reasons have been posted and you can find your own ones. Otherwise no problem: don't do it. :)

I personally believe it's a good chance to say personally Thank You to people that works for your user happiness. Having a motivated developer is good for Maemo 5 and I believe most of you will have it in your hands in a way or another, sooner or later. Also, some of those great developers are paying a lot of attention to the long time, backporting newer versions even to the 770. If you established a first direct contact you will be in a better position to lobby for Diablo updates as well.

Anyway, it was an idea that came to mind this morning and I wrote the post in 5 minutes right before leaving the office. A proposal for a simple action for those excited these days about Maemo 5 and willing to help in some way.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Ah, about developers not willing to do duplicate work or simply prioritize what is more needed. If you are one of those send me an email and I will do my best helping you.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I think I finally understand you: You are a day dreaming masochist. But I fear your power. I'm afraid if you use one more really that you'll conjure up Facebook's version of Pinhead. Pretty pretty pretty please don't.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

Now... please go back to my first post and read again. :)

If you want to see your preferred Maemo apps ready for the N900 sales start, now it's the time to start pushing them through the maemo.org Extras QA process.

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

I sent a request to the gizmo people in hopes they can update their application for Fremantle so we can use the front facing cam on the N900.:D I submitted as a bug since they dont have a feature request option. Perhaps if everyone let them know there is a demand they can fulfill it.

http://support.gizmo5.com/

Re: How can *you* help getting Maemo 5 in shape
 

hello guys,,,
i just wana know can we use the Nokia N900 front camera as webcam. mean c2c chat as we do on normal PC. after all its Maemo. and i guess its not required rocket scince to provide application for it in N900.