Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

That is surely a nice pic for newcomers wandering on this thread...:(

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Just a thought: Maybe there's some history you need to read up on.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

And you've completely missed the point. Good job.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I don't know, if Dalvik looks like Android, walks like Android and talks like Android, isn't it Android? Sure there's a Linux kernel in there, but is there any Android functionality outside of Dalvik?

OSX has a BSD-based kernel, but I wouldn't call it a BSD distro.

I wonder, when they get Dalvik running under Maemo (like they're doing with Ubuntu), whether people will call it Dalvik or Android.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Tell me that's from The Onion, it cannot be real.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Good reply, but you could have also responded with the easier question to answer:

What's not to hate?

At this point the onus is on Microsoft loyalists to explain themselves. Not the other way around. And after they've answered that question, maybe they'd be willing to answer one or both of these:

Is Microsoft still relevant? If so, why and for how much longer?

I'm really most interested in part two of question two.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

There is now an API for accessing portions of the underlying OS.

And, of course, there are side-distributions that are doing things to Android outside of Dalvik (jailbreaking to get shell access, etc.). for a while, there was also a no-jailbreak-required pseudo-shell ("pseudo-shell" because it used a sort of text box for input a text field for output, instead of a tty or pty interface).


I would. And do. It's a Mach kernel (Mach being a derivative of BSD as well), with BSD microkernel (bound inside the kernel memory space for perfomance), and BSD command-line userland (at least, up through 10.4; 10.5 has started to adopt some sysv-isms, in things like ps arguments and stuff -- so lately it's "ps -efa" instead of "ps -auxw"). The BSD family tree includes the various other Mach+BSD platforms (NextStep, the direct predecessor of Mac OS X).

Sounds like a BSD dist to me. The kernels have some differences, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were major differences between BSDI and OpenBSD's kernels, as well.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Whoa! Just saw the video now! Not only is the editing impressive, but so is the advertising they are throwing at it!!

I like the way the music builds to the end, and the subsequent tagline 'Nokia Booklet 3G. All day mobility'.

I hope the Maemo Devices marketing team has something equally impressive and catchy for the Maemo 5 marketing campaign.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....itw-rm-eng.jpg

An image for scale, also to demonstrate why I hate glass/glossy screens :) BTW Not sure if eevrybody realized it, but the HDMI seems to be *instead* of the usual VGA/DVI port. Also unclear is what under the hood is going to produce that HD output, but hey, maybe it's just well hidden.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

We didn't want them wandering anyway. We setup a nice, neat labyrinth for just that purpose. :D

Re: Nokia's Netbook
 

He speaks the truth - I'm spending my first post just to point that ;)

This netbook look incredibly slick. It's like Apple had done a netbook, (but better - the macbooks looks dated already, imo).

And calm down, people. Nokia start shipping Maemo on phones (what would happen sooner or later) and lots of people bad mouth it cause it's "not just a tablet" - tablets are a dying segment, only Nokia and Intel spend money on that - sad but true :(

And now, that they announce a simple netbook, everybody expects it it would have Maemo? Already? Maemo on this thing would be a terrible choice, since nobody besides us knows what Maemo is - and Win7 IS the next big thing, despite we like it or not. And why Maemo, if a full fledged distro like Ubuntu would work much better?

Give the N900 some time... Maemo just got his first baby step in another type of device ;)

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

There's more to life than computers and opensource ;)

It's kind of sad to see how many people think so, looking at the youtube comments in that video.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I just think it's ironic that her inability/unwillingness to learn almost prevented her from being able to take the courses and...well...learn.

///EDIT

what a shitty 500th post... and apparently it took me 500 posts to figure out that I could say shitty :D

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Good riddance, too. I won't miss it!

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

kind of agree... windows everywhere? i want a break from nokia's path

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Speaking of breaks, here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwL0G9wK8j4&NR=1

:D

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I remember that!

Whatever happened to IBM?

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

They became a service company.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

What kills me... that was Professor Gates, the Harvard professor that was recently arrested.

Wow, I remember those commercials too. IBM has made a lot of in-roads on medium to enterprise level with Linux.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Well you can't drive a car without a drivers license. And you can't excuse it by saying "I just need the car to get to work, I didn't know it had this steering wheel and brakes and all that complicated stuff!"

Youtube trolls are the worst ones anyway.

A lot of small-town cable networks do sound like The Onion btw, I don't know what to make of that...

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I'm just shocked that they pronounced Ubuntu correctly... either they called somebody, or they've been watching The Goode Family...

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV...100_SY133_.jpg

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I think the relevant points here are that the buyer:
a). Bought from a name that she trusted (ie: Dell)
b). That Dell recommended Ubuntu with said product from that web page that she bought it from (flashed briefly in the news reel).

if you don't know about Linux, then you surely wouldn't know what to ask about it. You'd probably just ask if you can perform the normal tasks with it, which the answer be "Yes, but...<very long and detailed technical answers to follow>.

Linux hasn't been in the public's radar before this, so people (90% of the mass, the non poweruser) never had to care what OS is on their non Apple computers that they're buying. Cause they're getting Windows with it.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

So just because the answer is long and technical I should blame the product, because I didn't listen after the "it's cheaper, and you could perform your normal tasks if..."?

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Since we're using cars as an analogy, none of the following are considered valid thinking:

• I didn't know the Ferrari couldn't carry a piano, therefore I should get my money back.
• I didn't know the Ferrari isn't supposed to carry a piano, so the dealer should pay for the damages to the car due to my having transported a piano on/in it.
• I didn't know the dump truck couldn't pull a tight corner at 80MPH, therefore I shouldn't have to pay for the damages my crash caused.
• I didn't have a drivers license, therefore I shouldn't be arrested for running people over. After all, I didn't know anything about the right way to drive.
• I don't know anything about brakes in a car, so I shouldn't be prosecuted for negligent homicide just because my car's ill/never maintained brakes failed and I ran over that person.

Ignorance is not an excuse for poor decision making. It does not earn you a free lunch, nor a get out of jail free card ... nor should it earn you anyone's sympathy.

She didn't know it wasn't suited for the task for which she was buying it? She doesn't deserve any more sympathy for that than the idiot trying to transport a piano with a Ferrari.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

If you want to call someone idiot for being ignorant, the least you could do is not propagate nor expand upon a bad analogy.

Those car analogies don't work in the first place and you're putting on physics related examples that is far too obvious and doesn't represent this situation well enough (piano in a ferrari, etc).

Fact of the matter is that most people 'out there' don't care as much about computers as most people here do. So all the subtleties and technicalities that are obvious to us are 'unimportant, uninteresting and ignorable' for them.

I'm not gonna judge them. I only see them as potential users :D

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Dismissing users due to their lack of knowledge is not the best way of gaining them.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Yes, all cars have gears. And you can make it off the lot in first gear. I didn't choose this analogy anyway.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Much as I dislike Windows, I recall all the whinging on ITT about how people wanted to sync their calendars and mail from Outlook... Apple worked with MS to make that happen with Entourage, no way will MS let Linux do that. (Evolution is not really there yet)

I won't buy one until someone has a linux port for it, but I know I'm in the minority. Most people want what they are used to and which will run the things their friends give them in the way they expect.

What's in the way of a Linux port? We can hope there are no binary blobs for wireless or 3G for example...

How long will it take to port a suitable distro to this thing?

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I'm not sure if it's U.S. federal law, but the car analogy would fail in California because the buyer has to beware when purchasing an automobile. If you want your money back after you drive off the lot you have to use the legal system.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

I believe the car analogy originated from an european citizen. Also, it did not prove any major point so can we please start using the horse and carriage analogy now?

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

It's not because of lack of knowledge, it's because of lack of will to learn that knowledge.
The best you can do is try to explain them what it's all about, but if they only hear "it'll be cheaper that way", then it's their fault.
Fact is, they are making an uninformed decision, that has nothing to do with not being a geek or a nerd. But with some common sense.
You can't drive a car and not check your brakes, isn't that an obvious technicalitie? Well yes, but if you don't do it, you might die. Just like if you don't pay attention what laptop you are buying might drop you out of college like that girl.

Just like there are design courses that require an Apple Notebook, but buying an Apple is expensive and it has an unfamiliar OS. So I'll just buy a cheap Dell Laptop with Windows, but then I can't do anything with it for the course, because it's not an Apple Notebook! Oh stupid Dell and stupid Windows, you've ruined my life, it's all your fault! :D

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Analogy is a useful tool to quickly pass an approximation of a concept to a broader audience, provided you can come up with a good analogy. It's no substitute to actually understanding the issues.

Still wanna talk in analogies?

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Seriously, you guys...
If any of you get satisfied by an operating system, you need new values in your life.

And if you don't understand that not everybody wants to prioritize spending a large percentage of their free time on learning an additional operating system (or a first one, for that matter) then you need a life for those values.

Learning how to get the best out of an operating system is not knowledge, it is time that should have been used on something else. We're geeks in here. But don't expect everyone else to be.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Sorry but do you mind specifying your sources? In our communication we are always clear that Maemo focuses on touchscreen devices that fit in your pocket.

Wait until Nokia World and the full details about this product (hardware, software, services, sales channels...) before making solid conclusions.

If you only care about the hardware running Linux I personally share this curiosity. Thinking specifically on Intel's Moblin. But it is clear that the business case with Windows, Ovi services and etc is there, no matter whether this sounds appealing to this audience or not.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

The issue is that if you buy something that doesn't work for you, just because you didn't RTFM before you bought it, or don't want to RTFM after you bought it, then it's your problem and not the problem of the product
The analogies are only in the second part of my post, you can freely address the first one.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Noone on the planet Earth did ever read the - impolite - manual of a computer before they bought it.

Never.

Ever.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Maybe not computers, because I wouldn't know what to expect from a computer manual exceptg for "how to connect the S-ATA cable"... but I admit I read manuals (if available online) of cameras, phones and other gadgets I bua because they tell me more about what a device can actually do than the spec sheet. (Like: How good is the built-in video editing capability of a given phone? Which options do I have in the syncML settings? etc.)

Unfortunately, a lot of companies (including Nokia) have very bad and short manuals recently. They only state the obvious. ("Camera: Your phone has a built in camera. Press the button with the camera symbol for high-quality photos.")

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Computer manuals are bloatware centric as far as I have read in them. Also there's a quick start guide, that a lot more people read. Because they have to.

If I suggest to my family members that they can find some information in the manual, they look at me like I am rude. Those are the average computer users. Many don't even understand the manual if they do try to read it. It is too much information in one place for someone who basically just wants to open their excel sheets, faster, in a slimmer, cooler notebook.

There is no certificate required to use a computer. Or a dishwasher. Most people will buy their first dishwasher without knowing anything at all about dishwashers. That is the norm. It is also true about computers, even about cars. Again with the cars. Heck, I don't know anything about checking the breaks. Most people don't. That's why it's legally required to have them checked every second year by someone who do know, here.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

Of course you didn't announce any plans of Maemo being targeted at netbooks or for that matter even phones. But there's always been some hints here and there that while the official usecase for Maemo is for "touchscreen devices that fit in your pocket" eventually it'll be used on a broad range of devices. And if you read the blagosphere :D before the anouncement of the Booklet most of the speculation were that the rumoured netbooks will be running Maemo. And now all the tech blogs are either going "wtf, win7 no maemo?" or "here's why it's win7 and not maemo". So there was certainly something in the air.

And I don't want to get anyone in trouble, and I know that there weren't official announcements of anything. But there were still some hints here and there:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=259

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=115

Sure, but if at Nokia World you don't announce that the Booklet will have a Linux option, then I think the conclusions are valid.

Yes, Moblin is very nice. And I'm sure it'll be community ported to the Booklet. I just regret that Nokia for the time being didn't want to invest in porting Ovi services and what not, to give a Linux choice to the consumer.


Volt, so again you're saying that ignorance is an excuse for every stupid action people do and they shouldn't be personally held accountable for them.

Re: Nokia Booklet 3G
 

No, I am saying you have an unrealistic view of how much people know about computers.