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-   -   Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch! (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31001)

anidel 2009-08-28 10:24
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 317050)
Everyone was saying what a great video it was, as if that was relevant. I didn't hear any of you who agreed with the (above) comment saying, "you're praising the N900 because of a marketing video. You're praising the N900 because of a marketing video."

Let me say that again. They were praising the N900 because of a marketing video.
The video with Quim Gil was not really a marketing video, was it?

anidel 2009-08-28 10:25
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qgil (Post 317055)
btw, it almost looks like we were waiting for bug 5000 to announce Maemo 5...
Are you going to call it Maemo 5000 then?

:)

ragnar 2009-08-28 10:29
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
it's Mambo number 5.

attila77 2009-08-28 11:16
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 317054)
784 is a power of 2
Err... No ? It's 3x256... :)

zerojay 2009-08-28 11:18
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geneven (Post 317050)
Everyone was saying what a great video it was, as if that was relevant. I didn't hear any of you who agreed with the (above) comment saying, "you're praising the N900 because of a marketing video. You're praising the N900 because of a marketing video."

Let me say that again. They were praising the N900 because of a marketing video.
Let me say this again. Just say no.

I still can't believe people are talking about the fact that they used smaller hands in a promo video when it's obvious that the reason why they did that is so that you could see more of the interface instead of having a giant hand in the way.

Absolutely shocked no one's complaining about the touch circles. :rolleyes:

anidel 2009-08-28 11:20
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 317077)
err... No ? It's 3x256... :)
3*256 = 768
28^2 = 784

What I am saying is that the NAND memory use some bytes for error detection/ checksum for EACH block of the memory (4k or less each)

So 784Mb of total memory could be a 768Mb chip (with error detection / checksum)

But I am ignorant at NAND, SDRAM and so on... I'm just guessing.

You confused my statement "is a power of 2" thinking I was speaking about the number 768 :), right?

ragnar 2009-08-28 11:25
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Marketing videos of course take a lot of time to create, so they need to be created based on the ideas and targets that the final UI has. i.e. created alongside the creation of the actual software, i.e. before the software is actually ready. So there is naturally the element of guesswork. As well as ... well, people know that loading web sites take time. Starting something up can take time. Showing the finer intricacies of network connectivity for instance does not make for a compelling marketing video. :)

Anyway, I think they're really nice videos, capturing the spirit and intent of the UI design.

anidel 2009-08-28 11:27
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerojay (Post 317079)
Let me say this again. Just say no.

I still can't believe people are talking about the fact that they used smaller hands in a promo video when it's obvious that the reason why they did that is so that you could see more of the interface instead of having a giant hand in the way.

Absolutely shocked no one's complaining about the touch circles. :rolleyes:
Actually "you were praising the N900 because of a marketing video" is plain wrong. There are videos of the actual device and we are appraising the N900 based on that also.

This latest statement is a different one. Related to someone who was complaining that people were complaining about a smaller screen (3.5" instead of 4") and were appraising the N900 based on what was on the marketing video (that was showing a bigger device compared to a human hand).
People can call that deceptive, but you're right that they were focused on showing more of the UI than of the hand itself (for which we can't care less).

attila77 2009-08-28 11:31
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 317080)
You confused my statement "is a power of 2" thinking I was speaking about the number 768 :), right?
Right, sorry :) Still, very odd choice if true :)

anidel 2009-08-28 11:33
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 317087)
Right, sorry :) Still, very odd choice if true :)
The chip is there for sure. It can be a chip made of 3 x 256Mb each chips as you said. I don't care. But I'm confident is a standalone chip that's there only for the swap partition.
Nice touch IMHO.

attila77 2009-08-28 11:35
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Actually, that screen/human body part scale disrepancy inspired me to do a littlescreen scalability analysys, which Nokia probably did X years ago :)

st5150 2009-08-28 11:35
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/
Quote:
Music playback file formats: .wav, .mp3, .AAC, .eAAC, .wma, .m4a
How did WMA make it on the list and OGG didn't?

Kypeli 2009-08-28 11:38
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st5150 (Post 317093)
http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications/
How did WMA make it on the list and OGG didn't?
In the real world, WMA is much more common than OGG. And N900 will target the real world. And I am sure the community can add OGG support to MAFW anyway.

attila77 2009-08-28 11:41
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
I believe it's far more of a legal/corporate thing than an actual technical choice.

TheDagger 2009-08-28 11:50
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 317080)
3*256 = 768
28^2 = 784
28^2 is power of 28 and not power of 2.

2^9 = 512
2^10 = 1024

Anyway, I've been really excited about N900 since I saw the launch videos yesterday. Time to try little programming with the beta SDK. :)

anidel 2009-08-28 11:56
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDagger (Post 317102)
28^2 is power of 28 and not power of 2.

2^9 = 512
2^10 = 1024

Anyway, I've been really excited about N900 since I saw the launch videos yesterday. Time to try little programming with the beta SDK. :)
Ah my fault!
You're right... it's friday...

So everything I said about checksums and error detection is just crap :)

I still think the chip is there. They wouldn't have written about it.
But we'll see soon.

Bundyo 2009-08-28 11:56
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 316984)
Hey, is it just me or does the N900 have vsync issues when horizontally scrolling the screens? (swapping apps, home screens).

I saw it on the youtube video (interaction documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE ), and pretty apparent just a few seconds into the video when showing the multiple home screens.
Yes, I saw that too yesterday. Maybe a newer Epson chip? :D

st5150 2009-08-28 11:57
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kypeli (Post 317095)
In the real world, WMA is much more common than OGG. And N900 will target the real world. And I am sure the community can add OGG support to MAFW anyway.
Yeah, but it's linux. You almost have to try and not support ogg out of the box. So far, I'm willing to bet a vast majority of current maemo users use OGG much more than AAC or WMA. It also took the community a while to get ogg support into OS2008 and it still has some issues. Not making a big deal out of it, I just don't see managements mindset on something so trivial. I hope Nokia higher ups force all the managers and engineers related to this product use a N900 every day. No other phone allowed.

Andre Klapper 2009-08-28 12:25
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
yes, *current* Maemo users, but probably Nokia targets a broader audience with the N900.
And ogg support in Diablo worked fine for me, so I'm looking forward to get community-provided ogg support for Fremantle too.

anidel 2009-08-28 12:33
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
I look forward to that as well, but I don't get it. Where's the legal issue with Ogg?

attila77 2009-08-28 12:38
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
I believe it's the story of submarine patents. Ogg is not developed by a large corporate entity, so if anyone has a patent that it might break, it does not pay to sue anyone. However, even if the owner doesn't care about OSS users and is dormant, Nokia might be a tempting target to aim for. As Nokia had no part in development they can't guarantee/verify that ogg is really-really free for them to use without risks. I hope this makes sense.

zerojay 2009-08-28 12:40
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
It is Nokia's position that OGG is a proprietary format: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/09/2045200

ColonelKilkenny 2009-08-28 13:01
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anidel (Post 317125)
I look forward to that as well, but I don't get it. Where's the legal issue with Ogg?
It's the same thing what happened with HTML5 -video. Nokia is afraid that there are submarine patents. Thus, they are afraid to use Ogg. The same thing dropped Ogg from HTML5 spec.

They are more willing to pay for using non-free codecs than take risks that could lead into legal fight(s) against patent trolls.

edit. Okay, seriously, I should refresh before posting...

korbé 2009-08-28 13:15
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
If it is the community who support the OGG Vorbis, Ogg Theora and FLAC, will it be possible to make complete support (play + record + tag) in all software?

anidel 2009-08-28 13:41
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Well according to Vorbis :

Quote:
We make commercial, closed source software. Can I use Ogg Vorbis at all? What licensing do I need to pay?

Again, there are no licensing fees for any use of the Ogg Vorbis specification. As a commercial developer, you are free to create and sell (or give away) open or closed source implementations of Vorbis encoders, decoders, or other tools. However, if you use our software rather than writing an independent implementation, you must respect the terms of the license. Our libraries are available under our BSD-like license and can be used whole or in part by closed source applications.
After reading the Nokia answer to W3C, no they don't support OGG because they think it's not free, quite the opposite. They don't because IT IS free.
Or better, because it lacks DRM support. They claim that the majority of quality content is not free and is currently served via non-free codecs that people THINK are free (MPEG2 and so on).

Quite an interesting point...

allnameswereout 2009-08-28 13:52
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 317127)
I believe it's the story of submarine patents. Ogg is not developed by a large corporate entity, so if anyone has a patent that it might break, it does not pay to sue anyone. However, even if the owner doesn't care about OSS users and is dormant, Nokia might be a tempting target to aim for. As Nokia had no part in development they can't guarantee/verify that ogg is really-really free for them to use without risks. I hope this makes sense.
OGG is a file container. I assume you mean OGG Vorbis or OGG Theora.

What you state here can be said also about the Linux kernel and many other open source projects. Submarine patents are a potentional problem in every software; not just OGG.

Many corporations already use OGG Vorbis instead of MPEG 1 Layer 3 in their games. It means less royalties and better quality.

Issue does not matter much though. If all is well, this feature can be added by 3rd party.

Venemo 2009-08-28 14:33
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
I've just noticed when watching the detailed specifications of the N900, that it doesn't support the Hungarian language (among others).

Does it mean that the device won't be available in my country, or it only means that it won't support the language?

If so, since Maemo is an open platform, is there any way to translate it?

chilko 2009-08-28 14:34
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
some info about roadmap from m-r

"Maemo Device 2 end of Q1 2010, Maemo device 3 some time in 2nd half of 2010. Maemo device 3 will run next generation UI environment."

maxinflixion 2009-08-28 14:36
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
The fact that this has finally been officially announced can be directly atributed to my purchase of a n810. I forced their hand.

I did the same the week the n810 came out. A fresh n800 was delivered to me that week.

You are all welcome.

This thing looks great. Rather than crippling it by adding my corporate security on it, I may keep my crackberry for work and just grab a T-Mobile data plan on a 900 (if they'll let me do data only).

zerojay 2009-08-28 14:37
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venemo (Post 317207)
I've just noticed when watching the detailed specifications of the N900, that it doesn't support the Hungarian language (among others).

Does it mean that the device won't be available in my country, or it only means that it won't support the language?

If so, since Maemo is an open platform, is there any way to translate it?
Maemo is an open platform and the community is pushing for community-sourced translations starting with an attempt to check out Transifex, which looks like it would be perfect for the job. It may be too late to have Nokia/Maemo start using it officially for Fremantle, but we're interested in making it happen - for all languages.

attila77 2009-08-28 14:44
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venemo (Post 317207)
I've just noticed when watching the detailed specifications of the N900, that it doesn't support the Hungarian language (among others).

Does it mean that the device won't be available in my country, or it only means that it won't support the language?
Rossz híreim vannak. Officially, no Internet Tablet was sold in Hungary (yes, I actually asked them :) ). Of course many were imported and resold, but it wasn't a 'real' Nokia release.

Quote:
If so, since Maemo is an open platform, is there any way to translate it?
I believe you can translate most of it, but I'm not sure about the closed components.

korbé 2009-08-28 15:05
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulkoan (Post 317057)
Does anyone know if the bluetooth stack in the n900 exposes a DUN profile?

The longer version of this question is "can I use this as a modem?".

The US translation may be "does this phone support tethering"? I am never certain about this last one, as the phrase "tethering" seems to have only come into parlance recently, and from the US, whereas I have used every phone I have owned for 10 years as a modem - even over IR before BT came on the scene.

So I wonder sometimes if it just got a name recently, or if it is a CDMA thing, which thankfully the rest of us in the world never really had to put up with.

Err.. sorry, rambling. Is there a DUN profile?
According to the product page on the website of Nokia Switzerland, it can be used in USB Modem.

Source:
Quote:
Réseau de données

* GPRS classe A, classe 32 multislot, vitesse maximale jusqu'à 107/64,2 kbps (DL/UL)
* EDGE classe A, classe 32 multislot, vitesse maximale jusqu'à 296/177,6 kbps (DL/UL)
* WCDMA 900/1700/2100, vitesse maximale PS 384/384 kbps (DL/UL)
* HSPA, vitesse maximale 10 Mbits/s (DL), 2 Mbits/s (UL).
* Réseau sans fil IEEE 802.11b/g
* Sécurité réseau sans fil WLAN : WEP, WPA, WPA2
* Assistant WLAN
* Conçu pour la connectivité continue TCP/IP
* Peut servir de modem via la connexion USB
http://www.nokia.ch/produits/tous-le...specifications


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The N900 has a backlit keyboard!

See this picture:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/...eb049813b3.jpg

See the source and other size here: Flickr Photo of Mdamt

pelago 2009-08-28 15:21
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 316984)
Hey, is it just me or does the N900 have vsync issues when horizontally scrolling the screens? (swapping apps, home screens).

I saw it on the youtube video (interaction documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP5R-5NX1BE ), and pretty apparent just a few seconds into the video when showing the multiple home screens.
Could that just be a mismatch in the refresh rate of the camera and the screen? I.e. it might not actually look like that in the flesh.

Venemo 2009-08-28 15:26
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 317223)
Rossz híreim vannak. Officially, no Internet Tablet was sold in Hungary (yes, I actually asked them :) ). Of course many were imported and resold, but it wasn't a 'real' Nokia release.
Actually, because the N900 is not just an internet tablet, but also a mobile phone (and it is much more hyped than the previous tablets) and according to some gossips, Maemo will replace S60 on the 'flagship' devices, so it should be available in this part of the world, too.

Quote:
I believe you can translate most of it, but I'm not sure about the closed components.
Could you drop me a PM about this in more detail? (In Hungarian, if you prefer it. I only wrote in English, so that the others can understand it.)

eltinio 2009-08-28 15:28
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelago (Post 317247)
Could that just be a mismatch in the refresh rate of the camera and the screen? I.e. it might not actually look like that in the flesh.
Maybe an lighting that only works if it's dark enough like the nokia e65 had.

zerojay 2009-08-28 15:29
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
It won't matter if the components are closed when the strings used won't be. That's what we're aiming for here as I said in my earlier comment.

dansus 2009-08-28 18:06
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Who wants this one..

http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/e900_2.jpg

:D

zerojay 2009-08-28 18:07
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansus (Post 317373)
I wish the people that made that mentioned on the image that it's just a mockup. There's a lot of people out there saying "I'll wait for the E900 now" because of it.

Venemo 2009-08-28 18:08
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 317223)
Rossz híreim vannak. Officially, no Internet Tablet was sold in Hungary (yes, I actually asked them :) ). Of course many were imported and resold, but it wasn't a 'real' Nokia release.
I think the existence of this page answers the question.
http://www.nokia.hu/termekek/teljes-...#/main/landing

tso 2009-08-28 18:10
Re: Now it's official: Maemo 5 and the N900 launch!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansus (Post 317373)
gimme gimme gimme :D


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