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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   N900 Specifications (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31005)

texaslabrat 2009-09-07 15:54
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaemoGuy (Post 323231)
Not that I can see.

When you open up Conversation aplet, which handles both IM chat and SMS, there's no option for MMS.

Also, in both IM and SMS sessions, I can't find a way to add an attachment either. so it looks like it can handle purely text messages on IM and SMS.
There's a dev link (?) somewhere where it is explicitly stated that MMS was not included for initial release and listed a series of rationalizations for it. So, most definitely "no" to MMS at release.

MaxiKana 2009-09-07 15:55
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Espoo888 (Post 320839)
Just had 10 minutes to play with a N900 in the Nokia Store, Helsinki.

I wish I could have had more time but there were people waiting behind me and my wife's continuous "can we go now" was starting to bring me out of my trance :(

Overall very, very impressed and I will not be cancelling my pre-order :) Switching between desktops, applications and the dashboard is smooth as silk and very intuitive. The build quality is good and the screen is responsive and very sharp. The UI graphics are also pretty sweet and with the user customisation potential I think we can safely say that Nokia have taken it to the next level - chew on that Apple1:p

The only problems I noticed were:

1. YouTube videos did not stream well over wifi - JKK posted a very good video which also shows the same problem

http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/09/jk...o-and-podcast/

2. There is some v-sync tearing visible now and then - scrolling through the panoramic desktops and playing back a video I shot with the device

3. Whilst zooming in and out during browsing the phone had problems keeping up with the rendering.

4. Activating links in the browser was a little tricky - but I think that most of that was me not being used to the touchscreen - I also didn't have time to play with the "mouse cursor" thingy

All of the above should be fixable in firmware updates. I do not know if there will be a firmware upgrade before the production models ship (probably) but my feeling is that the N900 will need a couple of decent firmware upgrades before it really starts to fly.

Also, the device could have been better set up as a demo model. For example there were no video clips, photos or music library pre-installed - which is pretty poor given the its capabilities in those areas.

In my opinion, Nokia firmware/application development and support and community application development are the factors that will make the difference between this being a very good or a truly great device. Let there be no doubt (I know there's not much here :)) the N900 and Maemo have enormous potential.

Roll on October :cool:
I went to see the N900 on Saturday. The Nokia rep that was handling the device at the time didn't really know anything about it (I knew more). I think it may be because they haven't yet recieved training on it?

I asked her if it was a pre-prod or a prototype. She said it was a prototype with about a month old software loaded (NOT the latest version & NOT the version at NW AFAIK). She also said the hardware wasn't final and that the touch screen in this device had already begun to loose its sensitivity when I tried it on Saturday (they received the device on the 3rd of sept). I wonder if they now have a device from NW or several devices? You'd think it would be better for the compan to show of a newer device with a touchscreen that is not a prototype.

tl;dr version:

My experience with the device was awesome. I tried playing youtube videos (clicked on the first one I could on the main page) and it loaded and played without problems or stuttering as seen in some videos, I wonder if the device was booted before the poster I quoted tried the divce? The rep said that over 200 people try this prototype every day, and since it's an early software it might suffer from memory leaks which would deteriorate video playback smoothness. The device froze just before I tested it and the rep booted it just prior to handing it to me. Flash seems to take around 10 seconds to load after the main page has loaded, the cursor that you load from the left side worked just fine once I got to used it, as did the spin zooming with one hand, to get better performance out of it you need to spin in a small circle, not a wide one.

I loved the stylus + web browsing. That combined with the Highres screen made web browsing awesome. It limited the need to zoom in to click links like you have to do on the iPhone (if they are closely spaced). It loaded heavy sites like engadget or hs.fi easily, beating IE 6 on the PC.

The screen was IMO just as sensitive as on the iPhone, eventhough it wasn't as good as it was suposed to be.

I like it, will be definately buying it.

If you feel I missed something, ask. I could go back and test it again later in the week, since my school & work place are quite close to the flagship store.

Oh yeah, they should reveale availability this week, and the rep told me to expect it in the first half of october, possibly the first week.

tso 2009-09-07 16:06
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoDude (Post 323228)
Will a user be able to browse the internet while in a call on speaker phone or with a BT headset using only the N900's cellular connection (no WiFi)? ... BTW, is there even a dang speaker phone? :confused:
if your connected by way of UMTS/HSPA, yes, as it was specifically designed to handle data and voice at the same time (how else would it be able to handle a video call?), but not with a GSM/EDGE connection.

korbé 2009-09-07 17:32
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaemoGuy (Post 323231)
Not that I can see.

When you open up Conversation aplet, which handles both IM chat and SMS, there's no option for MMS.

Also, in both IM and SMS sessions, I can't find a way to add an attachment either. so it looks like it can handle purely text messages on IM and SMS.
No file transfer via IM?

SD69 2009-09-07 17:53
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tso (Post 323248)
if your connected by way of UMTS/HSPA, yes, as it was specifically designed to handle data and voice at the same time (how else would it be able to handle a video call?), but not with a GSM/EDGE connection.
Not necessarily, for example, UMTS/HSPA was also specifically designed to handle MMS but the N900 can't do that due to complications of integrating linux with telephony stack (or possibly a bug or something else). And 5800 (or other Symbian phone) isn't an accurate indicator of what the N900 can do.

This is a big step forward - integrating linux with 3G, so I think it's prudent to watch reviews and videos to ensure that certain functionality or use cases do in fact work.

tso 2009-09-07 17:58
Re: N900 Specifications
 
well the umts data should be a radio thing, as the gsm radio used the same channel for both talk and data.

still, nokia's mms explanation makes about zero sense, given that android seems to handle it fine, without a need for kernel patches.

all in all, there should be no technical hitch, in theory, when it comes to surfing and talking at the same time.

SD69 2009-09-07 18:12
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tso (Post 323297)
well the umts data should be a radio thing, as the gsm radio used the same channel for both talk and data.

still, nokia's mms explanation makes about zero sense, given that android seems to handle it fine, without a need for kernel patches.

all in all, there should be no technical hitch, in theory, when it comes to surfing and talking at the same time.
UMTS standardizes the cellular connection and the user equipment is always abstracted in the specs. Just because simultaneous data and voice is supported by UMTS doesn't mean that the N900 supports it. MMS is a case in point. It is supported by UMTS and yet there is some hitch, technical or not, which prevents the N900 from performing MMS.

Point is, we can't assume that the N900 supports a particular feature just because the feature is part of the UMTS standard.

tso 2009-09-07 18:42
Re: N900 Specifications
 
heh, why do it seem like nokia is rushing the release to reach the christmas shoppers?

kinda like "get basic phone and data in there and working! the rest we can SSU in later!"...

texaslabrat 2009-09-07 18:49
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tso (Post 323326)
heh, why do it seem like nokia is rushing the release to reach the christmas shoppers?

kinda like "get basic phone and data in there and working! the rest we can SSU in later!"...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_Razor ;)

tso 2009-09-07 18:50
Re: N900 Specifications
 
texaslabrats and texrats, color me confused ;)

R-R 2009-09-07 18:59
Re: N900 Specifications
 
from:
http://mobile-review.com/review/noki...-n900-en.shtml
http://mobile-review.com/review/imag.../scr/scr14.jpg

Any reasons why the apps space is so small?
Hopefull we don't go back to a 256MB internal storage space for the / fs, tell me we do have a full 32GB!!

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-07 19:04
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-R (Post 323334)
Any reasons why the apps space is so small?
Hopefull we don't go back to a 256MB internal storage space for the / fs, tell me we do have a full 32GB!!
Because he's using an older build with a different partition arrangement.

korbé 2009-09-07 19:46
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 323337)
Because he's using an older build with a different partition arrangement.
The internal memory, with 32G, is mounted in /home/ ?

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-07 20:07
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by korbé (Post 323355)
The internal memory, with 32G, is mounted in /home/ ?
The current layout as I understand it (all pre-release specifications are subject to change, of course):

32GB eMMC
  • 768MB of swap
  • "Over" 1GB of ext3 mounted on /opt
  • Remaining space mounted on /home/user/$MYDOCS as FAT32
256MB NAND
  • Bootloader
  • Kernel
  • rootfs
MicroSD
  • FAT32 partition

tso 2009-09-07 20:22
Re: N900 Specifications
 
ugh, i truely wish that some regulatory office would slap microsoft into including a open, unpatented FS in future os's, and pushed out ASAP as a update to existing ones, and make sure it follows the specs to a t, both present and future, no extensions or omissions...

attila77 2009-09-07 20:25
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 323364)
32GB eMMC
  • 768MB of swap
  • "Over" 1GB of ext3 mounted on /opt
  • Remaining space mounted on /home/user/$MYDOCS as FAT32
Wait a tic... How is this going to help applications ? Don't tell me we have to shove everything in /opt...

dansus 2009-09-07 20:28
Re: N900 Specifications
 
After watching Peters videos, couple of questions came to mind..

How is notifications handled. ie if im in the browser and an IM or tweet comes in, will something pop up like the Pre?

Im guessing the usb is host, so can i just plug in a usb key and it will show up as mass storage?

korbé 2009-09-07 20:35
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 323364)
The current layout as I understand it (all pre-release specifications are subject to change, of course):

32GB eMMC
  • 768MB of swap
  • "Over" 1GB of ext3 mounted on /opt
  • Remaining space mounted on /home/user/$MYDOCS as FAT32
256MB NAND
  • Bootloader
  • Kernel
  • rootfs
MicroSD
  • FAT32 partition
Thanks.

A posibility to format 32G internal memory on ext2/ext3 ?

Jaffa 2009-09-07 20:58
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 323374)
Wait a tic... How is this going to help applications ? Don't tell me we have to shove everything in /opt...
Presumably yes (unless someone finally produces a realistic unionfs for Linux and makes it available as a module on Maemo).

But that isn't so bad, icons and desktop file in /usr/share and application code, images, translations in /opt/application.

This is all conjecture though, as Nokia haven't announced yet how they intend developers to use /opt (although it's being left a little late!)

geneven 2009-09-07 21:02
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 320816)
As GeneralAntilles points out in the thread qole links to, I'm not being sloppy with language here - and thought the difference between these two statements would be clear. Perhaps I should have made the first and the inverse of the second:
  1. Nokia does not support host mode.
  2. The N900 does not permit host mode.

The word "support" in the question was not the word the questioner was looking for - it's too vague and has too many meanings in IT.
Yep, the word "support" is probably the most misused word in tech support, in my experience. Even the people who use it frequently don't understand what they are saying.

What it usually means is, "hey, you may be able to do that, and more power to you if you do, but we aren't going out of our way to help you and we take no responsibility for how well you do it."

People misinterpret it thus: "well, you don't support it, so you obviously oppose it," like we were talking some sort of political process. It doesn't mean that. Often, technicians themselves use this line of reasoning to chase away people who are trying to do something, like "we told you we don't support that, and if you are having problems now, it's your own fault" as if people trying to do it are somehow immoral.

Users who do something that isn't supported are perfectly free to do so, but they can't expect help from a company that has announced that it won't help. That is all that "we don't support that" means.

attila77 2009-09-07 21:07
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 323386)
This is all conjecture though, as Nokia haven't announced yet how they intend developers to use /opt (although it's being left a little late!)
Yes, I should have seen this /opt thing coming when kimitake said he's using /opt/qt4 to hold the Qt libs... Was hoping for some unionfs action, myself, too. Duh. Back to my Qt-on-loop-device monstrosity, it looks like we might be needing it for Fremantle, too :) :(

texaslabrat 2009-09-07 21:36
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by korbé (Post 323380)
Thanks.

A posibility to format 32G internal memory on ext2/ext3 ?
I don't see why you couldn't format it ext2/3..though you would lose the ability to use the N900 as a mass storage device on windows machines.

attila77 2009-09-07 21:40
Re: N900 Specifications
 
It's not that easy, or better to say not without consequences on Diablo, where certain bits expected to have a VFAT partition on /media/mmc2. We'll see if the N900 inherits that stance or not :)

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-07 22:40
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by attila77 (Post 323397)
It's not that easy, or better to say not without consequences on Diablo, where certain bits expected to have a VFAT partition on /media/mmc2. We'll see if the N900 inherits that stance or not :)
I talked to timeless about this one and the assumptions are a lot more limited in Fremantle than they were in Diablo. So, no, ext3 shouldn't be an issue.

scaler 2009-09-08 22:12
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dansus (Post 323375)
Im guessing the usb is host, so can i just plug in a usb key and it will show up as mass storage?
Join the club. I too guessed that any normal computer user reading the specs, with references to USB mass storage etc., would interpret them as you have. I got flamed by the big man. Apparently Nokia's customers are not supposed to be interested in host mode, even if the device is billed as a "computer", for Nokia's first time ever.

You need to read the earlier part of this thread and the discussion about what "support" means.

You should also read the long threads about host mode on earlier Maemo devices. It eventually turned out to be very easy to switch USB modes, once you got some basic facts that Nokia wasn't handing out. For a long time, Nokia's line was that you needed to have a Linux PC handy if you wanted to switch modes.

For the N900, as for the earlier devices, the default USB mode is to act as a peripheral device, connected to your PC for transferring files back and forth.

It is generally believed that the Maemo community will be able to figure out how to change modes on the new device, as it did for the earlier ones. Watch this forum for the next few months.

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-08 22:22
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaler (Post 323980)
It is generally believed that the Maemo community will be able to figure out how to change modes on the new device, as it did for the earlier ones. Watch this forum for the next few months.
It's as simple as having an OTG adaptor and the hardware handles the rest.

epilido 2009-09-08 23:11
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 323988)
It's as simple as having an OTG adaptor and the hardware handles the rest.
as per qoles earlier post....

Quote:
Originally Posted by qole (Post 320585)
OK bad news, using the standard micro USB cable, my always-useful Female-Female adapter, and an 8GB USB key, I installed and ran "usbcontrol" from the repositories and the mode wouldn't switch from "b_idle" to "host" at all. Trying the old "echo host > /sys/.../musb_hdrc/mode" had the same result. Whatever you write, it is overwritten with "b_idle"...
Is this just because he did not have a powered adapter. I havent seen anyone that said host mode was working with and OTG adaptor.....

Epi

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-08 23:30
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epilido (Post 324006)
Is this just because he did not have a powered adapter. I havent seen anyone that said host mode was working with and OTG adaptor.....
USB OTG isn't powered, pin 5 is simply grounded which tells the software that it needs to be in host mode. jolouis manufactures these adaptors for the N800.

theflew 2009-09-08 23:30
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epilido (Post 324006)
as per qoles earlier post....



Is this just because he did not have a powered adapter. I havent seen anyone that said host mode was working with and OTG adaptor.....

Epi
For the N810 you either used the software switch mentioned by qole or a USB OTG adapter which I don't think anyone has tried yet.

theflew 2009-09-08 23:36
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 324011)
USB OTG isn't powered, pin 5 is simply grounded which tells the software that it needs to be in host mode. jolouis manufactures these adaptors for the N800.
Also found on ebay for the N810 (should also work with the N900 - micro USB). I grabbed one off of ebay about 8 months ago. Works fine with my Linksys USB ethernet adapter.

epilido 2009-09-08 23:57
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 324011)
USB OTG isn't powered, pin 5 is simply grounded which tells the software that it needs to be in host mode. jolouis manufactures these adaptors for the N800.
I have only used a home made reverse powered hub for my N800, and that's been awhile since I have gotten big SD cards. I was just questioning your statement that the OTG adapter will work when I hadn't seen anyone saying that they had plugged one in.

Epi

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-09 01:10
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epilido (Post 324023)
I have only used a home made reverse powered hub for my N800, and that's been awhile since I have gotten big SD cards. I was just questioning your statement that the OTG adapter will work when I hadn't seen anyone saying that they had plugged one in.
The hardware is USB OTG, so there's no reason for it not to work.

joshua.maverick 2009-09-09 06:07
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spock (Post 316331)
I'm confused about the 3G data connectivity. First of all, the n900 doesn't have any frequency that is relevant to me in Canada, but does " Maximum speed PS 384/384 kbps (DL/UL) HSPA 900/1700/2100" seem really slow to anyone else? My E71 technically connects to Rogers' 7.2Mbps network and I typically get 1-2Mbps in speed tests. 384kbps is a big step backwards...
Oh spock it is relevant, Wind Mobile, which should be launching in October (crosses fingers) uses that band for 3g. Screw Rogers.

joshua.maverick 2009-09-09 06:08
Re: N900 Specifications
 
I've heard mixed things about the digital compass, is there a definitive answer? I saw a video where a Nokia Rep says there is one, (although not in english)

attila77 2009-09-09 12:29
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaffa (Post 323386)
Presumably yes (unless someone finally produces a realistic unionfs for Linux and makes it available as a module on Maemo).

But that isn't so bad, icons and desktop file in /usr/share and application code, images, translations in /opt/application.

This is all conjecture though, as Nokia haven't announced yet how they intend developers to use /opt (although it's being left a little late!)
Well, it's official now. For better or worse, it's 1GB of /opt ext3 to shove everything into.

quingu 2009-09-09 13:03
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflew (Post 324016)
Also found on ebay for the N810 (should also work with the N900 - micro USB). I grabbed one off of ebay about 8 months ago. Works fine with my Linksys USB ethernet adapter.
sorry for bringing this up yet again. I am still unsure what kind of usb micro adapter i would need that doesn't involve power injection. what about this one? Description says its a "Micro-A" plug. Yet it looks different than the plug of the n810 adapter you linked (which looks more like a micro-b plug).

qouth the wikipedia:
Quote:
The device that has a micro-A plugged in [...] is a power supplier. [...] The default link configuration is that A-device act as USB Host and B-device is a USB Device.
excuse my stupidity. I can't make sense of this. n810 plugs look like micro-b, yet it would be logical to use micro-a.

Help please!

R-R 2009-09-09 14:52
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Do we have any idea how long will the battery last just using it as a phone and letting it idle just on GSM?

And than on GSM / SIP over wifi ?

I'm guessing that playing heavily with it will kill it within 3-4h like the n810 but what about non-desktop-like usage...

matthewcc 2009-09-09 14:57
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Will the N900 support an upgrade to Maemo 6?

sjgadsby 2009-09-09 15:15
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewcc (Post 324300)
Will the N900 support an upgrade to Maemo 6?
That question has been asked multiple times.

The answer is that there's no official answer yet. It is too early for Nokia to commit to anything. However, expectations are that Maemo 6 devices will bring a smaller processing power jump than is occuring between OS2008 devices and Maemo 5 devices. Therefore, it appears probable that Maemo 6 will work on Maemo 5 devices.

If not, there's always Mer, which will be developing alongside Harmattan.

Buy (or not) based up on what the N900 will give you now though, not what might happen in a year or so.

GeneralAntilles 2009-09-09 15:17
Re: N900 Specifications
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-R (Post 324298)
Do we have any idea how long will the battery last just using it as a phone and letting it idle just on GSM?
Nokia claims 2-4 days in their spec sheet.*


*This number is, of course, based on pre-release hardware and software and is subject to change.


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