Re: N900 Specifications
 

Is this definitely the case? The reason I ask is that looking at http://mos.futurenet.com/techradar/c..._12-420-90.jpg and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Types-usb_new.svg it looks like the N900 has a micro-B socket. USB-OTG devices are required to have a micro-AB socket (a square one without the bevelled corners). If it doesn't take micro-A plugs, then either it doesn't support host mode, or it doesn't comply to standards, or wikipedia is wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Univers...-AB_Socket_OTG

Re: N900 Specifications
 

http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtb...emplateId=6123


as for standards (or failure to adhere strictly to them)...just get one of these:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.as...ingid=41883616

You can also pick up a battery-driven powered usb hub to complete the ensemble ;)

Re: N900 Specifications
 

If ext2 & ext3 are the only choices I'd pick ext2 for the internal flash device (microSD cards that will be very cheap to replace by the time they are out of warranty are a different matter).

Running out of power should be an exceptional event, while the journalling is active the entire time the filesystem is mounted. While it's on, every time you change a single bit on the fs the system will have to re-write at least two entire eraseblocks on the flash (one for the journal, one for the actual filesystem data/metadata, depending on the mount options used). Wear-levelling or not, that seems too excessive for my liking.

The main issue IMHO is handling an interactive e2fsck when things go pear shaped (but ext3 doesn't eliminate the need for that completely either).

Re: N900 Specifications
 

This has been discussed endlessly on #maemo, and much smarter people than myself preferred ext3 (including Nokia, it appears). Observation of flash memory survival rates (nearly 100% in what I've observed) seems to bear this out.

I'll stick to ext3, thanks.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Well, Nokia's criteria (eg reduced support costs) may not necessarily coincide with mine (device longevity, especially past the warranty period) while both are valid individually.

Survival over what period and usage pattern? Keep in mind that flash writes impact the entire block device (not partition), so having things like swap, journal, .ash_history etc on the same chip have a cumulative wear effect.

BTW, there was some speculation that there's an extra (faster?) memory device in the RX-51 specifically for swap use, but I've lost track - was that ever confirmed either way? If there is, it could also be used to store the ext3 journal.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

My own internal 4GB SDHC that I've been using since mid-2007 to boot from and for swap and dozens of other people's similar arrangements on both N800s and N810s.

There's not.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Actually, it IS better to have all these on one big device, as the wear is then spread across more flash blocks, unless you plan on introducing more chips with different technologies (=higher cost + more space + higher complexity).

Anyway, if this was a real problem, we'd be flooded with N810 users with dead internal cards by now (as the N810 is swapping on a 2GB flash device = 16x shorter life span than the N900 on equal tech and number of writes).

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Not all users enabled swap space (I didn't), and when it is enabled, I wonder whether it is intensively used in practice.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

ext3 has been shown to be the superior FS many times. This is a pretty good writeup on why. The article specifically mentions is lower power consumption. Always handy in a mobile device.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ext3

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Folks, please, once and for all, let the system worry about flash wear, it's more than capable of doing it, don't burden yourself with it.

As for swap usage, it will definitively be used, Linux likes to keep memory empty for cache and buffers, so if you have something that isn't too active, it will end up on the swap sooner or later.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

I've had one card die while in normal use inside my 770 and another two in the N800 (none on the N810 so far), but I have no idea why or what conclusions can be drawn from that, other than it's made me a bit more paranoid I guess ;-)

Maybe bigger device == wear spread across more blocks, but isn't this offset by more blocks == higher probability of some going bad? Either way, I'd prefer to keep things that cause lots of erase/write cycles out of the soldered-on chip.

Oh, I'm not worried about it dying while still in warranty (all N810s are still < 2 years old).

Compared to ReiserFS & XFS, which is irrelevant here. Compared to ext2 it should use slightly more power because of the journal (otherwise they're the same fs).

Re: N900 Specifications
 

The N900 doesn't support USB host mode and the limitation comes at hardware level. Igor Stoppa and myself provide more details at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...er/020830.html

Re: N900 Specifications
 

WHAT?

Does that mean it's impossible to use any USB periphery with the n900 - not even with power injection?

All previous NITs had this feature. USB support missing on the n900 would be a huge letdown.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Isnt the issue that it cant provide power for the USB device. What about independently powered drives which dont rely on the USB host to power. I may have misread the issue.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Holy S**t, please don't tell me I can't attach a self powered external HD (or ANY other self powered USB device) to the N900, it was really something I was looking to... :eek:
reading the link posted by qgil I didn't get if the problem is with the power of the device of incompatibility between USB hardware and the USB consortium rules... in this last case, wouldn't there have been the same problems with the previous internet tablets?? :confused:

or is the "support" word being used as "officially supported" by Nokia, not providing the Host mode out of the box?


One totally different thing:
the N900 has a IR port; I have a Nokia 6630 since some years, and I *never* felt the need in a IR port having it bluetooth; what should I use a IR port for? anybody can illustrate me some uses for this? thanks in advance.
(hey, not complaining for a extra feature in this case, just curious :p)

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Re: N900 Specifications
 

USB consortium has strict rules for many aspects, including connectors. AFAIK, the previous tablets don't suffer this problem because they don't charge through USB port and, although they don't support USB host mode out of the box, a patch is available through the community.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Ah so the reason why it wouldn't support USB host mode is because you can now charge the n900 over USB..

Bah, that's an awful tradeoff if so. I want both (it's useful being able to plug my flash drives into my n800).

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Now this is one thing I am dissapointed to hear.

Lack of MMS, smaller screen etc were ok and not something I would quibble over.
But lack of any USB Host mode seems like a real loss to me.
If its going to be my mobile computer, I would definitely need USB host so as to attach portable media (HDD) to it etc.

I thougt GA said he was sure USB Host mode would be supported via the host cable or something ... but Quim seems to lay to rest such an idea.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

My endless optimism is endlessly punished by Nokia.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Well thats disappointing - but hardly nokias fault. Sounds like the issue is with the USB standards. People want to be able to charge with USB, so they have to take the tradeoff.

Have to admit I wish this wasnt the case.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Your optimism has gotten others hopes up only to now be dashed it would seem. Your strong presence and seeming depth of knowledge carry more weight than you think.......

Epi

Re: N900 Specifications
 

GeneralAntilles and many others do their best to satisfy your thirst of news days, weeks and months before any official source does. It's a risky and exciting game. If you don't like it you can ignore it but please don't blame those making pronostics, most of the times based on technical accuracy.

The Maemo team also wanted this feature but for the reasons explained by Igor it was not possible. I don't think that yourselves in the same position would have made a different choice. "I want both" is a nice emotive sentence but not a realistic option we had in the time of making decisions.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

I'm as fallible as any other human. Speculation is always that and should be taken as such.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

And the shared punchline to two simultaneous, seemingly independent jokes slams home:

1. Maemo community (for past six months): With USB charging and only one port, how will we power our N900s while they're connected to all our USB gadgets?
   Nokia: No worries! We're way ahead of you.
2. Maemo community (for years): With USB keyboards and mice at home and work, my Internet Tablet is one external display shy of the portable workstation of my dreams!
   Nokia: Hey, we've added that video out you've been wanting...

Ah, well. It just means more creative solutions need be sought.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

I didn't mean to imply that USB standards compliance and USB charging are necessarily incompatible. As Nokia stated, they weren't able to solve the problem in the time they had.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Well, I don't think people ever wanted "charging over USB" functionality at the expense of OTG though.

You could have kept the small charging connector and left the usb i/f (A type?) as like on the N810. Lacking a OTG is a big big let down IMHO. I know even noobs (like me) like this feature a lot and use it more often than we think. I am not sure, if it is justifiable to say that N900 is aimed at Tech Enthusiasts anymore. I care less about anything software-wise missing because if that is that important, some app would be later available for that. But anything missing on a hardware front IS a big disappointment.

First the Digital Compass and now this. By adding few advanced features, we are also missing some basic and well useful things.

Justification for not including MMS was that not many people use it or need it sorts of. But why this. We all knew that many people have been using this and will be using it, right?

So, is there no other way to achieve this even at the expense of adding a small connector or something?

Re: N900 Specifications
 

They must be kidding!

Looks like, Nokia didn't want to make the perfect device. They knowingly left an upgrade path?? Taking wrong cues from the fruit seller?? :confused:

Common Nokia, Keyboards and Mice will probably work with bluetooth, but how will my USB drives/HDDs work now :(

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Today is a SAD SAD SAD day...

There is absolutely no way, like absolutely no way that Host mode can be enabled? I mean, the 770, N800, and N810 had some form of host mode. Its super awesome.

I guess this kills Quake 3 on the TV (without bluetooth), using it with Cannon cameras and s10sh, USB quick transfers to thumb drives... wow...

It also kills the possibility of add on hardware, as some people were thinking about a USB compass and other stuff.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Network attached/shared?

Re: N900 Specifications
 

How about when on the move? Also, not every router people have support USB drives!

Re: N900 Specifications
 

There's a new thread for discussing this relevant issue:

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...499#post330499

Better use it so that other people can look at the title and join the discussion.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Well, you can have PANs, albeit it'll tax some overhead in speed and power drain.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Blame the European commission, friends of the earth, green peace etc, for pushing for a standard in charging, all the big players signed up for it, in the future there will be just one standard charger for all devices no matter the manufacturer, now we have been set back lets vote no to the EU :)
I hope nokia find a solution in the future to make it happen in any upcoming devices.
On the bright side in 2010 we wont need 10 different chargers for all the different gadgets we intend to buy.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

It would be interesting to keep an eye on btrfs, that supposedly has an option "optimised" for flash devices - what ever the hell that means (in terms of real world performance) I don't really know.

Not exactly up to date or reliable info but
http://markmail.org/message/nnjqocag3hildwyz
interesting nevertheless

and from wiki http://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.p...zed_for_SSD.3F

Re: N900 Specifications
 

I would disagree, I desperately need charging over USB.
Especially if I'm using the N900 as much as I think I will, with USB charging it means I can charge my device almost anywhere.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Yeah, but nobody forced the manufacturers to say "Hey, let's use USB for that!". :)

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Which, in my humble opinion, is the lamest thing they could ever decide. But we get what we deserve...

Re: N900 Specifications
 

I don't think that has to do much with wear. On eMMC devices, there are so many layers between you and the actual device it's quite pointless to 'try' to do wear leveling yourself. That said, filesystems COULD be more flash friendly by taking into account flash block sizes, no head seek time, etc.

Re: N900 Specifications
 

Possibly a very foolish question BUT who's 3g network will the euro version of the n900 run on if you were to bring it to the US?