Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Ok, the entire stack is now in the Extras repository. WooHoo! What a pain that was. These libraries are "optified" so they should not have to be compiled again and these should be final.

So, Pierre you should be able to put up Rapier at any time.

Any other devs that are wanting to test stuff can now pull down the entire stack to their scratchbox also.

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

A quick update: I have verse selection and switching translations done. At this point, not having a good 4.6 version (with finger scrolling, the View Menu, etc) has become a slowdown. I may wait to do a lot more work until I can set up Qt 4.6 correctly.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Thanks !

Would it be possible to change some settings in the control file so dependencies works as expected ?

sword16-dev should Depends on sword16, not on sword. Same for the python-sword module (and could it be called python-sword16 ?)

Oh, and installmgr is packaged in the -devel version. As Rapier use it to install remote modules, would it be possible to have it in the sword16 package ?

I have applyed your patched related to the tuple version of some hildon function, added some more. Now there is still an issue with starting rapier while there is no module installed at all. I will see what can be done about that.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Sure can. I was in a "rush" with the sword package. I'll get another version with those fixes up in a little while.


I assume you also took all the "None" checking I also added which fixed several frequent "warning" messages on the console?

I noticed that; but I assumed it was just normal behavior -- once I installed one and restarted it worked. It has been a LONG time since I installed a fresh copy. ;-)

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

looks great. I hope it works when we get our n900's

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Nathan, what if any texts are included with the default sword package? I'm curious, because I'm wondering how to handle the initial startup.

Also, what do people think about module installation? My initial thoughts are to simply offer the option to download and install texts from a remote location (e.g. ftp.crosswire.org). Does anyone have an opinion on this?

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I liked the way Rapier worked in earlier versions where it was able to download and install modules from ftp.crossfire.org. It should also be possible to manually install modules by unpacking them wherever it is that this program stores them.

So let me get this straight as I have read only a couple of pages in this thread, is this a straight port of rapier or a new program?

Either way are the people developing it looking for help? I have been spoiled lately by a bible application on a friends iPhone and would love to recreate some of the features from there. One thing that I think is useful is for there to be a notes application built in that allows the user to either link the notes with the scripture reference or store it by some name. The idea is that when you are looking at a scripture you can pull up your previous notes on it easily.

Not sure if anyone has the time to work on this, but I will if no one else is taking the lead. What do the rest of you think? Is this a worthwhile addition or do you just stick to Xournal and MaemoPad++ for notes?

Another thing (and I haven't tried the newest versions so I don't know if this is still a problem) that I would like to work on if no one else is is the lag that comes when selecting a book and chapter. It is almost always faster for me to pick up a physical bible and turn to the scripture than it is to select the book (wait) select the chapter (wait again) and then scroll down to the verse. I am not sure of the cause of this but an easy way to at least lessen it's effects would be to have the ability to select a book and then a chapter and then click "Go" or something before it actually loads the text.

So yeah I am rattling on a bit but this is something I really want and don't know how to best jump in and help as it seems the ball is already rolling.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

None. This is just the library.

Rapier runs the InstallMgr (which is why he was asking to have it moved from the Dev tool into the release tools) so that Rapier has access to it without having to install the Dev tools.

Nathan.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Both.

I can't commit to any "features" But I think most of the developers are interested in a maintained version with a several features that we feel are missing from Rapier.

.

We are looking at making it in QT; right now QT is not "quite" ready yet. Both v4.5 and v4.6 are being actively being devleloped by Nokia.

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Hello and welcome to the disucssion JackBeSlow. There are two things happening here.

The first is that Rapier is being cleaned up a bit for Maemo 5. This effort will allow much of the solid work that Pamadio and others have done to pretty much go on as is.

The other effort is a Bible application, written in Qt, that is at one part simpler, but in another respect a more refined take on a mobile bible application. I've proposed some UI/UX frameworks a few pages back, and so far it seems that some of those ideas are being considered by the developers here working on that. This application is called Katana and there's a Maemo Garage project opened for this at katana.maemogarage.com (I believe that's the address).

There are many other persons contributing to this thread as well. Some are developers who want to jump into the project, others are testers, and I believe that in addition to myself that there are a few UI/UX frameworks being developed. If you want to join in, I'm sure that would not be a problem at all. As for who is leading the effort, I honestly cannot say. Pamadio certainely gets the lead role with Rapier as its his application and the hands here are helping his vision for that app. As for Katana, its come together from the posts of many people here. I'd probably have to defer to the developers working on this in respect to a "project lead." Though if asked, I'd nave no problem lending a hand in that role.

So there you (and anyone else reading this thread) have it. Its been rocking for a while, and personally, this effort feels a lot like what community-driven development projects should be. Who knows, maybe Katana becomes a highlight app for Maemo. Would be pretty sweet if that happens. But even if it doesn't, the chance to just throw in a hand where I can here is pretty exciting too.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Thanks for the reply.

Rapier is nice and has been a useful app for me for several years, but I would love to lend my hand in anyway to Katana.

I have developed a couple apps for Maemo 3 (mostly to control my robotics projects) and have been studying up on the Maemo 5 Hildon framework. I will take a look at the Katana page on Monday I guess, and if someone wants to take the lead and tell me where you want me to do some work go for it. I don't mind doing grunt work. If not I will just take a look and start lending a hand where I feel I can help.

I have to thank everyone that is contributing to this, I have been wanting something like this for a while now but complacency with Rapier has kept me from doing anything of my own. I know Katana is going to be great.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Ok, I re-did the sword package. I fixed my mistake in the dependencies (thanks!). I also split out the binaries into "sword-tools" for you Pierre. So you can depend on sword-tools16, python-sword16

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Cool, thanks.

I ll give it a try.

About your patch, the whole set has been commited:

https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scm...&r1=217&r2=218

I added some try/except block when importing module as it seems what works on my sdk does not on yours. This way, both way are try.

About the problem when there is no existing Sword directory, it may be related to the lack of "/usr/share/sword" template directory in the sword16 package (when there is no default directory existing, rapier creates one based on the content of this directory).

I ll try to understand why is it so, and see if i can change that.

Oh, and i ll also check if /usr/bin/mkfastmod is there (it s needed too).

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Good news: Rapier works now (at least seemed to) with the latest svn change if the sword package actually includes the whole /usr/share/sword/* directory, and not only the locales (it needs this as a default module repository to copy file from). Can this be changed in sword16 ?

Bad news: the drive that i used for my dekstop and for storing virtual machines just died, so i have no more desktop, nor sdk for a while.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are wanting from the /usr/share/sword/ directory. I have no issues modifying the sword package, if I missed something -- I'll try and de-install all of sword from my dev env and see if I can figure out what it needs (unless you know off the top of your head?) Is the /usr/share/sword/* in the -dev package?

Once I figure out what it is missing (in the sword libs for you); do you want me to "package" it and submitting it to the builders to (still leaving you as the maintainer) to get it online for others?

Nathan.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Nathan, how helpful would it before me to send you periodic source code dumps of my work? I'm currently committing to my own SVN repository, but I'd be happy to send you my work-in-progress if you would like.

As an aside, I'm currently working on searching. After that, I think I'll try to develop a first-run dialog to download texts as appropriate. It's a little bit of a shot-in-the-dark experience, since I don't have a finished SDK or a real device to work with, but it sure is fun!

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

You could look into using the Maemo Garage SVN.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Throwing this out there as a request, and for some reason I didn't ask about this before, but it hit just a few min ago when doing some admin work at the Bible+ (PalmOS-based Bible reader) site.

Is there any way that in addtion to the Sword support (since that seems pretty much the way the developers are thinking of going), that support for the .pdb Bibles used by Bible+ could also be supported by Katana?

I ask for two reasons: one, people coming from Palm devices to Maemo5 devices would have an excellent option towards keeping the nice amount of BIbles they have created or downloaded. And two, it would extend some of the effects of the great work already done for a mobile-friendly (and quite compact) Bible format.

For those interested, the Bible+ website is http://palmbibleplus.sourceforge.net - yes, I am the webmaster of that site; not a developer of the application. I would like to see an effort like that continue though.

Thanks for that consideration.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

ARJWright, I think that is a great idea.
I just did some research and I found these two major programs for Bibles and Christian materials (Including payware books).

https://www.olivetree.com/
http://www.e-sword.net/bibles.html

It may be worth writing a conversion tool or a plugin so that people who have paid for copyrighted materials on other mobile devices still have access to them; effectively reducing some barriers for entry to Maemo.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I think there are a number of documented formats that use pdb, and probably some that are proprietary. I'm not sure which these are, but the commercial ones may be closed.

The wikipedia page on ebook formats was a useful read when i was looking into this (before y'all resurrected rapier overnight).

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I have some bibles in PDB format and would appreciate if it is supported too.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Actually conversion type programs is my specialty. ;-)
Do you know if their is any "encryption" on any of these .pdb

Nathan.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

http://katana.garage.maemo.org

Then ask to join the project. I can add you as a developer and then you can submit the svn on the project.

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

We would have to write a "convertor" to convert either one of them to sword modules. However, I think their might be one already from olivetree modules. Not sure about e-sword.

Nathan.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

You can get some Palm Bible+ PDB from the site above. There is a converter there for converting sword bibles to the PDB format but I believe it is possible convert from PDB to sword modules.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

What i did was just to change sword-1.6.0a/debian/sword16.install

It originally was

usr/lib/lib*.so
usr/lib/sword/*
usr/share/sword/locales.d/*

And i change the usr/share/sword line so it looks like the following now:

usr/lib/lib*.so
usr/lib/sword/*
usr/share/sword/*

I am not sure this works as expected with the optify rules as it looks i have some file appearing in two places (/usr/share/sword/locales and /opt/maemo/usr/share/sword/locales)

The inclusion of the extra mods.d directory is handy as you can then just copy /usr/share/sword in another place to get a sword directory template.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

not to hijack the thread nor the effort - would there be people who will prefer to use Bible+ via Garnet VM then (if there is going to be one for N900)?

wahlau.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I have just spotted this thread and might be very interested in this. I use two Palm programs extensively. DateBk and PalmBible+. I have put a lot of work into creating some Hebrew and Greek modules for Bible+. Does the Garnet VM display these type of modules properly? If so I may consider getting an n900. I tried StyleTap on a Pocket PC but it messed up the text when in full screen.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Nope, not possible to go from PDB to Sword. That has been attempted by a number of folks, and usually speaking, you can find the resource already within Sword unless you have done a personal .PDB conversion from another source.

---
I would advise against writing a tool that converts copyrighted materials. Since the publishing of that tool on the B+ site, there are always tons of questions (posed to myself actually) about what the copyright rules are for different regions for different versions of Bibles. Its honestly too hard to keep up with - and in many cases is pretty fruitless.

It is because of the work of many people behind the scense at Olive Tree, Bible+, and a number of other areas that more Bibles are available via an open license than what used to be the case. Yes, there are publishers of some popular versions still not able to be used electronically, but as an effort, its better to give them an incentive to open up (as was the case with the Message, ESV, and NET Bible folks), than to do things unethically and subvert the work they rightfully deserve compensation towards.

The tool on Bible+ was developed before many companies - publishing companies - decided to lock down even the electronic dissemenation of their materials. For most - currently - they do not allow the transfer of a licence - aka you cannot purchase the print version and get license to use the digital version. This falls under their legal right as copyright owners (in the US and many Western European countries). Check with your regions' rules before using that or other tools.

Again, its a political issue, not a technical one. And would be better served in a deeper discussion in Off-Topic here or in another forum.

---
There has been no confirmation from Access towards the development of the Garnet VM for N900 devices. And while little prevents them from developing this, its at best a solution that's akin to dragging a cross around. If you will: why would you carry in a modern device an emulated environment for a few applications which have better equlivents on the more modern platform?

Bible+ works fine in the current Garnet emulator. However, instability with handling the virtual memory card can make for some interesting issues for Bibles and related content. In many occasions, you can lose the entire VM partition to just a random reboot - and this is because its still quite beta and not really an environment mean to run in your device for day-to-day tasks.

Hence my question for supporting .PDBs within Katana. In this way, the user doesn't lose the Bibles they have had already. Content such as bookmarks and note do export to memos, which can then be synced to a PC via Palm Desktop, and then migrated to the Maemo 5 device.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

There are is no encryption leveled on any of the .PDBs linked to from that site - with the possible exception of the Message as that was a special case that a few people worked very hard towards opening to the B+ community.

EDIT:
In terms of OliveTree modules, we would definitely be better in going to them directly. I've got a number of contacts there and will not have a problem with opening this discussion with them. However, the inclusion of Olive Tree modules would mean that some type of licensing mechanism would need to be built into Katana. I'm not sure that this falls under the original scope of the project, and this may introduce some other complexities.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

If the formats are really so different that you can't convert from Bible+ to Sword, then I don't see how another reader could read the Bible+ format. What kind of format is it? Is it a text-based format? If so, why is it so hard to convert to Sword?

I'm actually quite interested in being able to read the Bible+ format, but if it's so intractable that it can't be converted from, I don't see how it's possible.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Jesus Christ.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I requested to join the project, and would like to take a look at source whenever it's in a coherent form.

Re: conversion. The sword-compatible input formats have pretty detailed and specific requirements. I don't think it's so much an impossibility as not worth the effort considering there are already sword alternatives.

In any case i will look into supporting something besides sword because sword is a bible-centric tool, and there are other religious books about that people are going to want to study.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

ARJWright,

I'm glad your available to answer these types of questions!

So your saying rather than write a "convertor" because of "legal" ramifications of "converting" them -- it would be much better to write in a set of "engines" of some sort to allow it to use these Bibles from other products directly. Thus no conversion, eliminating the "Legal" issue?

I believe that is not actually that hard to do; we would just need to abstract the engine system, another level. So when it opened up a Module the front end doesn't care what it is; just that the engine support getting text, getting reference, "searching", and a set of enumeration about what type it is (i.e. Bible, Notes, Image....)

In that vein, as I was looking into converting -- I did some research, their is a libpdb that can read pdb files for linux. But the .pdb files appear to have compressed text or something. The pdb files have garbage exported. I believe we could use the pdb import java code to figure out how to update the libpdb to be able to support the Bible+ files.

1. As for olivetree; I'm not sure what their file format is it is some encrypted?/compressed? pdb format.
2. As for E-sword, v9 modules are SQLite. (encrypted and not) -- this engine would probably be the easiest to write.
3. OnlineBible - Unknown, also some compressed format I believe.

This could be a very good idea. It could eliminate the whole issue of trying to get "support" from the publishers to put on certain types of Bibles/Commentaries on our platform. And would by fiat for them open another group of users the ability to "purchase" the modules from them, w/o them having to do any "work".

Nathan

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Nathan, that's a good idea, but I want to sit on it a half day or so before thinking it all the way through.

For companies like OliveTree, Laridian, and even the Sword project, any effort to build another reader should not compete against their efforts, but extend it. I've got it in my to-do list to contact OliveTree and ask if they'd be interested in the compatibility for Maemo devices. As for other entities like Sword, Online Bible, etc., I need to think (and choose my words carefully due to my associations outside of Maemo).

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I'm a little confused by your above statement:
E-sword is a free reader
OliveTree is a free reader
OnlineBible is a free reader
Sword is a open Source library.
Bible+ is a free open source reader (and afaik all modules on SF are also free)
Laridan (Appears to be Paid app $29 & up)

What competition (other than Laridan) are we against? "Free" vs "Free" is not really an issue, imho.

So if all we are doing is offering another "free" reader but allowing the users to purchase the module from them. I would think they would be all for it. Free development (i.e. they don't have to pay any developers to make a n900 version), and potentially "free" money (i.e. the users purchase the commercial modules from them).
Seems to me like it is a major win on their side as we end up doing the hard work, and they get paid for it.

Nathan.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

It's a good question. I have tried all the Palm and PocketPC bible programs and have looked at what is currently available on the iPhone and Blackberry platforms. I have converted all of my Bible+ modules to e-Sword and Pocket e-Sword format, yet I still find myself using Bible+ as my main program. It's not just about the modules themselves.

The issue for me is this: I have yet to find a BIble program which works as well for me as Bible+. It's like a glove that just fits. I am a pastor of a church and my life revolves around it. I rarely use the other programs I have. I use it for sermon prep and devotions. If I abandoned my Treo I would gain a lot but also lose a lot. It would be like taking two steps forward and two steps back. (The same could be said for DateBk. No other calendar program has the features I have grown accustomed to). If a program could be developed which would gave me access to the same modules AND had similar features to Bible+ I would upgrade tomorrow. At the moment emulation seems to be the best option.

As a stop gap I carry around two devices. My Treo does all my work stuff. My HTC Diamond does all the things my Treo can't and as it is so small I barely notice it in my pocket. However I would prefer to only have to carry around one device. I am still looking for that 'ultimate gadget'. It's frustrating. All the ingredients are there on different phones but as yet no-one has brought them all together.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

I believe the idea is to provide a reader to that is able to read Palm Bible+ and Olive tree PDB. It would encourage people to buy the non-free bible versions from them. A reference can be made to their websites in the ABOUT section of the app to guide people to where they can get other versions of the bible that need to be purchased.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

For Olive Tree, the reader is free; all of the modules are not.

Re: Bible App for Maemo 5 Device(s)
 

Does anyone on this thread have an actual N900 device? I'm curious because I compiled the Qt 4.6 alpha that was released, but the kinetic (finger) scrolling doesn't work on the simulator. I'm not sure if this is a problem with the simulator, or not - the demo videos from Trolltech seem to show finger scrolling. If anyone does, could I help you get Qt SDK running, to see if stuff works correctly?

I guess it's not that big a deal. I was just hoping to have a working version for the initial launch.