Maemo & Closed source
 

I'm an Android developer and i'm considering to support maemo too in case it's getting more mature and more phones are running it.

However since i don't know much about maemo i got some questions about the platform.

1. Are closed source applications allowed on maemo?
   
2. Are closed source applications equal to open source applications? (in terms of promotion compared to closed source on Linux distributions where open source if preferred)
   
3. Are manufacturers allowed to use maemo on their devices with/without asking for permission?
   
4. Are manufacturers allowed to extend maemo using closed source?

That's it so far
Thanks

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Welcome to the Community!!

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Some parts of maemo are closed source, so they can't use these parts, but the rest... Why not?
4. I think so (Why not?)

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Thanks.

3. Which parts? Are there plans to change this in the future?
4. I think it depends on maemos license model. If its GPL they couldn't do that.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Nokia's working hard to open as much of Maemo to us as possible and over the years that has happened more and more.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

3. The parts have been identified somewhere on this site. There will always be some parts of Maemo which are not open.

4. AFAIK, Maemo as a whole is not available under any license, but the open parts are generally LGPL.

You might want to participate in the mer project which endeavors to have a completely open-source analog of Maemo.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Ho Ho, Were? :)

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

I believe this thread has the most up-to-date discussion on the subject.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30607

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Hmm seems that maemo still needs some time... but i'll keep an eye on it.
Hopefully it will become a healthy competitor to Android some day.

Thanks for your replies

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Short answer: Yes.

Many libraries are LGPL. You're free to develop and sell or share proprietary software on an open source platform such as Ubuntu or Maemo. Some proprietary software has existed long time for Maemo. Examples: Adobe Flash, Fring, Gizmo, Skype, Wayfinder/Navicore, Devicescape.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

I think Android and Maemo are on different sides of the fence. Google does not produced devices, they produce services. So they want as many manufactures to use their OS as possible. But the OS isn't as open as Maemo. Nokia on the other hand sells millions of phones so they can be the soul manufacture with Maemo on it and still out sell Android devices because of their scale.

I wouldn't attribute Android volume to Maemo volume just by the number of manufactures using the OS. Using that calculation you wouldn't do anything for the Blackberry or iPhone since only a single manufacture uses those OS's.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

I don't want to start a flamewar here and i like the idea of maemo.
Anyways let me give you my thoughts on your comment.

The OS is completely open and under Apache license.
Whats not open are some apps like Google Maps and Google Mail but those are not important to the OS and can be replaced with one click.
Also parts of the SDK are not open but still thats not that important to the OS.
Android is not as standardized as maemo meaning its not using stuff like gtk, x11 and qt but still googles replacements for those are open source.

True. However i don't like/support any hard combination between hardware and OS no mater if it's Palm and WebOS, Apple and iPhone OS or Nokia and Maemo. As a developer i want to reach devices of as many manufaturers as possible without having to modify the application each time.
Hopefully maemo will move into this direction. I remember that Nokia created a mobile alliance similar to Androids OHA a while ago.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

This post talks about openness, and points out it is more than merely what license you have.

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=309621&postcount=1

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Nice article.

Of course i meant open in the sense of open source.
Openness is a whole different topic and the various branches of Android are of course driven by different companies on their own with the hope that much of it will come back to the main version.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that ...

While Android is sort of Open Source, the handset manufacturers are entitled (obligated?) to lock down the operation of it so that it is open for the manufacturers to adapt it for their specific devices, but that the users can't access (and modify) its guts once it's embedded in a device.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Okay, this is way off-topic but I can't resist. What you see as a problem, I see as an advantage. Eventually, the concept of paying for a copy of something (song, application, whatever) will be on the trash-heap where it belongs. Selling copies of something that can be copied for free is just plain crazy; and, in the information age, everything can be copied for free.

Once most everything has moved over to a pay-for-production model, as I expect it will, then having a bunch of different platforms that require customised code will be an advantage to the developer. It will allow the same thing to be sold over and over again to different niche markets. The actual size of the market won't be very important as it will only take a select group of people, people that care, to fund production, to pay the developer. The rest are not going to pay anyway, no matter how many of them there are.

In the future, I see a lot of both closed and open source developers making a living off long-tail support for non-standard platforms. I fact, I see so much of this happening that the drive to standardisation that you express will go into reverse. I see developers jumping at the chance to support weird, non-standard platforms, because that's where they'll be able to make money. I know, it sounds backwards, but that's what I think will happen when the current pay-for-consumption model collapses. It's teetering now.

See Keliso for more on this.

David...

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

For the reasons why some packages are not open source also see http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages .

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

You are right that Android devices while using open source are
usually (manufaturer choice) locked down and can't be modified by the end-user.
The openness of Android is solely targeted at manufacturers not at users and any manufaturer got the choice of how open his implementation is and how customizable his device is.

@fixerdave
Sorry but i disagree with you from the first to the last word.
The ability to copy banknotes using a high-end printer doesn't mean you got the moral or lawfull right to do so.
Same is true for stealing the recipe of CocaCola and replicating their drinks.
Standardization is in most cases a big gain for computer science.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Are Google Maps and Google Mail part of the OS yes or no? If yes, the OS is not completely open. If no, they don't deserve to be mentioned because they're an add-on.

IMO its more important to understand why (for Maemo reference see Andre Klapper's post above).

Which is why its as problematic as iPhoneOS to me. Sometimes, using open or defacto standards is more important than open source. Sometimes, a proprietary yet compatible product is better than an open source product which does not use open or defacto standards. Case in point: X11. TCP/IP stack. No X11 or TCP/IP stack sucks for me.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

It depends on the licensing model of Android.
There are 3 Models and in the least restrictive "do whatever you want"-license they are not included.

I got no idea.
I hope its because they are moving step-by-step and it will become open source over time (Like the OS).

I got no idea why they didn't use a X11/GTK/QT combination.
Would be interesting to find a statement from Google about that. Maybe it's because the application model is much different in concept or maybe they thought X11 is just too old.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Entitled but not obligated. Maybe there is something we don't know, but from what I know so far, it seems to me that people should be scrutinizing the manufacturers who are locking down their devices rather than the party who provided the FOSS in the first place.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Exactly...

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

Why ? The manufacturers didn't force Google to choose the license and are perfectly in line with what the license allows them to do. Or are we mixing Open with Free with regard to governance again ?

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

And Google didn't force manufacturers to lock down their devices.

I'm not mixing up anything.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

They are and i like this model of full choice.
However after all the consumers decide by buying those products.
It wil be interestig to see how open Android implementations will perform against closed ones.

Personally i think it won't matter to the average user and design/usability will win.

Re: Maemo & Closed source
 

I did some research about those topics and this is what i found out.

The SDK contains proprietary elements like integration with Google Maps but those are not essential to Android as an operating system.
In fact you can build the whole SDK from scratch. (Excluding those proprietary extras).

From what i found out this was a design decision.
Using a combination of QT/Gtk/X11 was considered too CPU intensive and not suited for mobile devices.
Of course it's another topic if this decision was correct but IMO it's a valid excuse for not using those defacto standards.