maemo.org - Talk - Portrait mode use cases

maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)

- Maemo 5 / Fremantle (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=40)

- - Portrait mode use cases (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31173)

Re: Portrait mode use cases

the on-topic part:
Does somebody know about the N900 Canola? ;) It sounds like a good candidate for this then. Now that the N900 Media player does a lot more than previously, user need for Canola to exist separately has somewhat decreased. Anidel, anybody?

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 331486)

the non-topic part:
As my personal opinion, Maemo is not some ideological struggle. We don't open source because of ideology but because of the pragmatic thought of it being the best method for us to make compelling experiences and products for our customers. That's how things should be, as far as I see. Open source is utilized because it is good, not because it is some holy crusade. For me that is the far more interesting angle in Maemo and open source: balancing openness with interests of a multinational corporation. Sticking to absolutes is easy but easily gets you nowhere, making compromises is hard but it can get you somewhere. Making something where everybody, including Nokia, wins.

the on-topic part:
Does somebody know about the N900 Canola? ;) It sounds like a good candidate for this then. Now that the N900 Media player does a lot more than previously, user need for Canola to exist separately has somewhat decreased. Anidel, anybody?

Uh?

Anidel...what? :)

I thinik I missed something in this thread... why am I been called to comment?

If the built-in media player does its job, I don't see a need for Canola,
But I am sure many people are used to it, like it and we'll ask for it. I've seen Etrunko working on the port, but he also stated it was slow due to some 32bit library? Confused...

Canola's also had some new plugin development from this summer Google Code, so we'll see what it'll bring on the table.

Anidel

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Quote:

Originally Posted by anidel (Post 331489)

Sorry for missing the question. :) I was wondering about portrait mode support with Canola. Would you know anything of that - has that been tested/considered at all?

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 331492)

Sorry for missing the question. :) I was wondering about portrait mode support with Canola. Would you know anything of that - has that been tested/considered at all?

Uhm not sure why you're asking me :)

But I remember the brasilian guys testing it in portrait mode on Diablo (with the XndR patch) and it looked like it was nice in portrait mode.
But I don't think it was designed with that option in mind.

I hope they redesign it, I'd love to see it adapting to the Maemo UI interface (btw, what's going on with the Maemo UI blog?!?!) so that it doesn't sound too alien...

Anidel

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Quote:

Originally Posted by qgil (Post 331490)

(someone please spin off this oss discussion since it is interesting but I don't feel like keeping it as OT)

Done: Closed Source Packages in Maemo

Re: Portrait mode use cases

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...it_mode_input/

Brainstorm for input in portrait mode, need more input on solutions etc. :)

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Quote:

Originally Posted by anidel (Post 331495)

Sorry, it's my case of mistaken identity. :) I should check before I type.

Anyways, I do remember the Diablo hacks, it will be interesting to see what the Fremantle version does.

Re: Portrait mode use cases

GETTING BACK ON TOPIC...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 331278)

Kind of, but the framework part is already pretty much done. You can do it, for instance Phone or Conboy show it.

The work that is not done is the UI design and implementation work for each of the applications. That's why imho the design tasks per application make more sense. if we would just enable the ASR everywhere right now - i guess in theory we could - the UI would be a complete mess.

I thought the OS already allowed apps to auto rotate. So the individual apps can always be made to rotate. That's already understood. But if the UI already rotated on its own, developers would work to make sure their apps conformed if they fit that possibility of being used that way.

It totally sucks to be holding a phone/device as you wish to hold it an launching an app that opens in the opposite mode, as if it makes choices for you. Imagine that, an open source OS and the device takes away choices smartphone users have been making for years.

I'll be getting an N900 anyway, and I won't be paying for it, so its all good, plus the OS is magnificent, but it feels like Maemo needs a history lesson. No matter how you slice it, N900 is now a phone, and phones have a bloodline. Recent times show all touchscreen devices to have autorotation throughout the main UI. History shows users want to choose between QWERTY and T9, landscape or portrait. Is Maemo going to make those choices for us now? Or shall we?

Ignore it all you like, but Maemo 5 is a step forward in mobile computing, where most of the trails were blazed by the smartphone. What did Maemo learn from those pioneers? Nothing?!

I understand certain apps will be more pleasing in certain formats, but having to grab a device with both hands and hold it in landscape just to open a list of apps that all support portriat will be a PR nightmare for Maemo. We'll just be giving the hater bloggers something to talk about.

First there's the fact that unless there's some sort of memo, no one will know an app rotates, since the UI doesn't, and most people will avoid holding the device one handed for the most part. Then there's the apps that open in portrait when you've held the device in portriat. Its a disconnect unless all apps open in landscape. So everytime you open a new app, check widget data, or use the device settiings, you'll have to go back to landscape. This is so inefficient, and so NOT smart. Isn't this a smartphone?

AGAIN, I request the focus be on getting the UI to rotate. THEN work on getting the apps to do so as well. And does anyone have an N97 or a 5800 style device, or even an iPhone? Let that be a case study, and build off of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 331278)

Also there is a lot of work for certain GTK components that don't automatically rotate well.

Is that the real problem of why the UI doesn't rotate from a development standpoint? I don't see why that would be true, but I'm just a whining user, right?

From my experience, you just need a portrait UI and a landscape UI, which we already have. Make a nice transition animation to make it look slick and voila! Figure how the widgets and running dashboard apps get rotated within the screen and its all good.

Why isn't it as simple as I imagine? Why was it so sijmple in S60, OSX, WinMo, and Android, but not Maemo? Did Maemo's designers not anticipate this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ragnar (Post 331278)

So you can write it like that, but that request is then almost meaningless.

The work is with the UI's of the applications (and the UI framework), and with the UI components.

I don't understand why, and no one has a real explanation that "normal" (which is everyone but me, according to popular opinion) folks can understand. Where are the Symbian OS UI developers? Any here? Maybe we can recruit someone with knowledge and experience doing something like this. I can't believe after 5 versions, Maemo isn't close to S60 in the UI orientation game...

Re: Portrait mode use cases

I think the concensus is most of the tablet guys don't want the phone, and aren't as interested in portrait usage, despite the outcry from the smartphonerati (it IS a word! shut up! LOL). Ditch the workarounds and lets get the UI rotation solved. I don't know how, but you guys do. Is a rotating UI planned or not? I don't think it sounds like it is.

Re: Portrait mode use cases

Chris, what do you mean by "the UI to rotate"?
It's pretty generic and I think that's the source of confusion.

Maemo 5 DOES handle rotation. The accelerometer does tell you that.
Not sure if Maemo emits a D-Bus event for that.

Any application can detect it and rotate if they wish so.
Xournal will probably do it.

The issue here is that (a part from the Phone application) no other stock application does rotate.
It's just that the code to rotate (i.e. to generate the NEW UI in portrait mode) is not done.

You must understand that the N900 is not a phone that comes with Internet as we know it.
It's Internet with a Phone capability added. Even more specific, it's an Internet Tablet that can make GSM calls.
Internet Tablets always had the Call feature, now they can do it over GSM as well.

The landscape mode is a direct heritage of this past. And it is MEANT to be used as such.

Indeed, I didn't want the Phone. It was fine to have a slot for a DATA only SIM card for me but still having a nice 4" screen.

Hopefully I am not missing the point and I am not saying what's already been said.

Anidel