Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Responding to the topic title,
I found this forum from a website which linked to the portrait mode thread and asked people to give their reasons for portrait mode.
My main reason at the moment is one handed use.
I was injured playing sport earlier this year and walk around with a crutch now, so stopping in the middle of the street to open a keyboard in landscape just to type ok in response to an email, SMS or IM is not really appealing. This is analogous to holding a shopping bag or basket, or carrying your suitcase in an airport etc

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Implementation: (mods move to appropriate thread if this is the wrong place)

First, assume there is no hardware keyboard, and typing can be done via the touchscreen in both landscape and portrait mode.
(It would be a nice aim to be able to use it as a touchscreen only. Personally I prefer a hardare keyboard but the options are nice. Eg. Watching a movie, SMS comes through and you quickly reply "yes" then back to movie)
This means we need onscreen keyboards.
I assume a landscape OSK is already in place. Perhaps even a T9 landscape keyboard. The latter may not get used much but may help in keeping with the conventions for the portrait mode version.
I would think there would be a button (when the OSK is onscreen only) to switch between T9 and full QWERTY. Eg a button that say T9 hen you are using QWERTY and vice versa so switching between the two is simple. Similar to having a 123 button to switch to numbers/symbols.

- a question: how do you bring up the OSK in landscape mode? If it is pressimg a button in a corner like it is for pullimg up the multi-tasking screen, the same can be implemented in portrait to bring up its OSK.

-Auto-rotation seems to be the thing here, but there should be an option to switch it off (the option is there on my N82). Useful if you like to lie on your side in bed watching youtube videos, for example.

-The application should also be able to override ASR if the designer wants it to. Eg. It wasn't designed for portrait mode or landscape mode. This prevents such a program being a garbled mess when turned to another orientation. On my N82 the only thing that doesn't seem to rotate is the homescreen and camera (I think).

-i'm not sure how a rotation animation should be handled, but perhaps there can be a setting for turning the animation off/on for those who don't care for it.

The accelerometre can send a signal as orientation changes which triggers the ASR (if switched on).
I'm not sure how this would be handled from a software point of view. Will it have to 'keep an eye out' for the signal and does it cause bloat in the code?

My thoughts essentially are:
- Nokia need to provide a portrait keyboard which can be switchable from T9 and QWERTY which is then the choice of the user.
- Nokia need to provide information on accelerometre auto-rotation events (possibly already available from the N810 days?).
- ASR can be handled by each individual program to switch UI from portrait or landscape mode, so the desktop does not hapharzadly get garbled in portrait mode, for example.

Someone like Anidel will know better how all this is handled, having read his posts on his program.

I hope my ramblings make some sort of sense!

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

As the headphone connector is on the bottom and usb is on top, I suggest its just a matter of fact to have everything usable in portrait mode upside down (or not) in case someone creates a desktop stand it would be upside down and you wouldnt use the qwerty for input cause you dont want to lift it or detach it.

so I'd like to have all four orientations for everything as long as it is useful (eg phonecall just one portrait mode if not charging), the on-screen keyboard in portrait modes could/should have smaller caps?! or adjustable (fingers/pen) size osk caps at all cause some people like to use their pen instead of fingers from time to time or depending on case.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I still don't know why people think I am an UX expert (but thanks :) ), but all my knowledge of how Fremantle handles rotation comes from this wiki:

http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantl...#Portrait_Mode

Anidel

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Hey, don't complain, but build up a reputation on that :)

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

In past Maemo releases, the on screen keyboards have been summoned by:

1. not having the hardware keyboard (if any) opened
2. not having a Bluetooth keyboard (if any) connected
3. tapping (or otherwise moving focus) into any text entry area on the screen

I've not yet used a Maemo 5 device, but I've heard nothing to indicate there's been any change in that behavior.

Well, the N900 is the first Maemo device with an accelerometer, so no, there's nothing from previous Maemo devices that transferred forward in that area. However, through a lot of trial-and-error work, and some time spent teasing information out of Nokia developers, the community has obtained and documented a solid understanding of how to add portrait support to applications.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I actually recognize your knowledge of the software development process, and have asked that everyone post to this brainstorm instead of mine. Best we join efforts. I've already added my solution for the widget rotation. Hope to see more coming.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I always imagined the portrait mode being all four the home screens compiled and compressed in one view, like the four homescreens being 4 big widgets in one view

wouldn't that be easier and more practical to implement?

I guess that would be true portrait support, what I don't understand why people just want everything to flip, that would mean in portrait mode you would still have to use "two handed" because you would need to swipe to the other home screens, so making them all in one would be the best way to go kind of like in N97 portrait mode with the widgets but instead active home screen rectangles

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

uh, jayhule, I'm not sure you said that right. Rotating the N97 doesn't require 2 hands to swipe the desktops. What makes you say that? It rotates, you still have the 4 desktops, and you swipe the same way as before.

And to the 4 screens in one, no. Its hard enough rotating one, but now cram all the widgets in an unviewable mess? no thanks

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

More portrait mode support is coming:

http://maemotalk.com/2009/10/09/maem...it-2009-day-1/

Seems the browser will work in portrait mode for this year's Christmas.

Edit: Also http://www.slashgear.com/maemo-6-ui-...irmed-0959800/

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

This is very exciting news.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I am a bit late to this thread (and I haven't read it all yet), so apologies if the below has already been covered, but just wanted to add my thoughts on the idea of a portrait desktop.


If there is going to be a Portrait desktop, I suspect the best way to implement it would NOT be to rotate the existing landscape desktop (given all the problems you have highlighted above), but rather to have a completely separate Portrait Desktop - ie a 5th Desktop that the user can configure with its own Portrait Wallpaper and set of widgets, located as the user wants in Portrait mode.

This desktop would only be visible when the device is held in Portrait Orientation.

Perhaps we would then need a 6th, 7th & 8th desktop so we could have 4 Panoramic Portrait desktops.

If the user is looking at the "5th" Portrait Desktop and then switches to holding the device Landscape, then the desktop switches to the last used Landscape Desktop.


EDIT: Ok, so I have now read the entire thread and it seems that Elimoon8 hit on the same idea (see here), so my post is another vote for a separate set of Portrait Desktops as the solution to how do your rotate the landscape desktop and deal with the freely placed widgets.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I'm curious that why are people so enthusiastic about having the home screen in portrait. Perhaps someone can elighten me, as I would mostly just want the apps to work in portrait (e.g. media player, email, messaging, pdf reader, file manager, browser,...) and keep home as it is (especially when we get the input methods up and running there).
Continuing on that logic, dashboard does make sense to support rotation if apps support it.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

because the widgets are designed for convenience, so we can get info at a glance without launching an app, and one-handed/portriat lends itself to convenience more than landscape. I suggest reading the various reasons in the many threads about it. Just my answering your question could be the beginning of fireworks. It has been a polarizing topic to say the least.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

A fair question. A good reason is to consider using the device in portrait mode and starting up a new app, or looking at the widgets as chris mentioned.

If in the chat program in portrait, for example, and you want to start up a tune in the background, it would be nice not to have to tilt the device to do this, and again to resume chatting in portrait. Consider commuting via the subway during rush-hour, and this becomes an almost required feature!

A quick glance to see a widget while in portrait would also be more convenient than having to tilt the device twice to perform this action. For example, if you're surfing maemo.com and would like to glance at your twitter feeds widget, it can all be done without tilting the device and comfortably with one hand.

I think adding portrait mode is about convenience and improving the user experience. While it's not necessary, it would make the device more usable in certain situations.

}:^)~

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Because a device like the N900, that handles multi-tasking so well, it is going to be painful to switch and navigate between apps without the desktop supporting it too.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Portrait mode: I missed that first time around Day 1. That takes care of one concern.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

As I said, switcher / dashboard and launcher I can understand that they need to support portrait for this exact case, but home is still something I don't fully get why to do that. The 5th home is a bad idea in the sense that then users would complain that why cannot the usual widgets be accessd from there. And full rotation means that the background images won't really work too well for non-abstract images if they get rotated, and if they dont get rotated, but instead supporting 3200x800 images, well that would not work either too well for obvious reasons.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Ok,

so Maemo 6 will have full portrait mode, but Maemo 5 (N900) will not?

Then I will not buy the N900, but I may consider a Maemo 6 device when in the market..

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

To be honest, if the E71 were running Linux and as open and had a development community, I would have bought an E71. It's a lot cheaper after all, and it's got a good enough screen and keyboard and connectivity for most things, including xterm ;-)

But it's not. For me the real reason for buying an N900 is the Linux, the community, and the ability to write my own apps for personal use.

All this talk of no portrait mode is disappointing. At the least, a web browser is more usable in portrait mode for many things like long articles and things that resemble lists - such as forums like this one! (If you have good enough eyesight to set the text very small, anyway).

But not disappointing enough to put me off buying one. How hard can it be to hack the browser, or for that matter, the framebuffer, into a preferred shape :-)

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

The more interesting question must be: Is it realistic for us to port Maemo 6 to the N900?

I guess that'll depend a lot on whether Maemo 6 fits in the available memory. I can't think of anything else crucial that would prevent it.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Wow, a year is a long way away. Come this time next year I will be itching for a new gadget, and I know most of you will too.

Mike C

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I haven't got one yet, but simply having to turn the phone 90 degrees every time you switch back and forth between tasks sounds like it would be quite confusing. Even with two hands.

For a start, it means you'd have to pick it up off a table if that's how you're using it.

It'd means you can't do things as quickly. Just pressing an icon would have to be followed by turning it around in your hands. Imagine if you have to press a few in a row quickly...

So I'd anticipate getting used to doing some things by reading text and icons text sideways... Just because it's quicker than turning the phone around. Quicker, but confusing and annoying.

So because of that, I appreciate why they've settled on making everything run in landscape primarily, rather than a mixture. At least you don't have the delays and eyestrain of rotating the phone or reading sideways when you want to tap through a few different things quickly.

But I do wonder how well browsing things like Twitter, facebook, scrolling through lists of email subjects, etc. can go using landscape.

After all, my desktop and laptop browser windows, and my laptop email window (and text editors etc.), are nearly always a lot taller than they are wide... for a reason. Wide doesn't let you see any more at once, to scan down the text quickly; tall does.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

jjx

Got your point, but the physical keyboard is where it is on the N900

Mike C

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Just like on the N97, mikec, but that doesn't impede ASR on it. I think the N900 is landscape only now because that has been Maemo's heritage. Most users weren't always on the go with the N8xx like most smartphones. Nokia is smartphonizing the Maemo platform, and it'll take time. Next thing is adding phone number dialing from the browser or email links.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

'Portrait mode! waaah!'

I hope Nokia views the loud whining here with some scepticism. The sensible place to support portrait is at application level, for too many reasons to list.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

C'mon guys hildon soon will not be the only choice... In fact nobody forbids a port of kdebase with a suitable theme and some usability patches...

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Yes, but for that to work you need a portrait on-screen keyboard at the OS level. That is the biggest concern for me, that it does not have all the needed support in the OS to make portrait support in applications easy. Just being able to ask the OS if you are in portrait or landscape mode is NOT enough, you need common portrait UI elements so that you keep UI consistency in portrait mode between applications.

Personally I know I would use portrait to quickly go into conversations, write quick one-liner replies to SMS/IM messages.

How often do people ask you a yes/no question and being able to quickly tap "yes" in portrait mode, when you only have one hand free, would be useful. Its far more practical using portrait mode on the bus as your elbows stick out more using both hands and the seats are always too narrow. If someone is sitting next to you, landscape is a real chore.

Also as pointed out previously, many websites despite being written in landscape on the PC, they actually are portrait because its harder to read landscape pages, you get information overload if too much is on a single line.

Once you accept that a few core applications need portrait support, it makes sense to then think about the home screen. At the very least, it should have a portrait optimised quicklaunch or something, perhaps that only lets you access portrait mode applications. I personally like the idea of having a separate desktop for portrait mode which you customise for what you will most likely be doing in portrait mode. I do not think it will be any more confusing to the end-user than being stuck in landscape is now.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Another example is the dashboard. Currently it doesn't "support" portrait mode. If you have an app in portrait mode open and call up the dashboard you run into problems. As of now the portrait app is briefly displayed in portrait (with only half of it visible) and is then rotated to landscape. Might become a slow process with GUI-heavy applications.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

And for the record I HATE the sound of the Maemo 6 desktop.

The idea of one large pannable desktop just makes me cringe. I briefly had a pannable desktop on my PC and couldn't stand it, likewise I only ever have a single desktop too as I forget which desktop which app is on and all the switching between them just gets confusing. I tried keeping Desktop 2 for GIMP, but inevitably when I am on Desktop 2 I forget and end up with applications spread across the two desktops at random.

In Maemo 6 (and I see no reason not to have it on Maemo 5 too) I would much rather as I described above, have a completely independent desktop for portrait so that you could customise it for different needs. The chances are in portrait mode your usage patterns are different anyway so having the same desktop is not intuitive.

For the record, I HATE how YouTube on the iPod Touch forces you into landscape to watch the videos when all navigation/searching is portrait. That is a really good example of a very poor design IMO. That is one thing I like about Maemo 5 mostly being landscape, if the primary purpose of your application is best served landscape then it should stick with landscape.

For the applications which can comfortably support both modes, I would also prefer to CHOOSE to switch modes not have it automatic (though obviously you could have a toggle for people who prefer automatic screen rotation). If I bring the device out of screen-off mode in landscape, default to landscape and vice versa. There are too many times when ASR can trip up, like when I am watching a movie in bed. Obviously as Maemo 5 currently stands I will be able to do that fine, but once portrait mode is implemented (which we need for easy music navigation) then using ASR would cause the same problem.

Overall though, I think perhaps Nokia made the right choice. I would much rather be stuck in landscape mode than have them badly implement portrait support. Although the lack of portrait keyboard support out of the box was pretty stupid, hopefully its just a lack of the bitmaps so once you install one portrait app with on-screen keyboard then its available for every other portrait app - rather than reinventing the wheel.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

It's annoying to use several virtual desktops unless you have window rules setup. For example, using Compiz I can tell application windows, where I want it to spawn, how big I want it, if I want it on top, transparent, whatever. So no matter where say I open thunderbird, Compiz will show thunderbird in desktop 4, maximized and on top.

Though I think Maemo is using virtual desktops in a different fashion. The windows themselves are not restricted to a certain virtual desktop. The virtual desktops are just several different launchpads or areas of information. Think something like the iPhone/iPod where you see all the applications on different pages. But instead of just applications you can now setup shortcuts to call people, widgets for information at a glance, etc..So you can have one for work, one for family, one for school, one for friends, one for information at a glance (news, rss feeds, facebook, twitter), etc..

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I'm not a fan of virtual desktops (on a desktop system) either. For some of the same reasons stated here.

But, on Android, the desktop isn't where the applications run. Perhaps because all applications are "full screen". The desktop is just where the application launcher lives. So, organizing similar launchers together ("work", "general phone", "personal/recreational") works. I never have an application running in the wrong desktop, because that's not how applications run.

That type of home/desktop screen would work for me.

But a "desktop computer" type virtual desktop would NOT.

And I'm not sure yet about the panning/continuous virtual desktop (as opposed to a discrete virtual desktop) planned for Maemo 6. I don't generally like systems I've used like that, either. Though, it might make it easier to display the desktop out to larger monitors and such.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

If you haven't done so already, everyone please go to the Brainstorm item on this whole issue (Portrait Mode / Auto Screen Rotation)

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...ut_the_ui-002/

Have you say on the proposed solutions or add your own solutions/ideas.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

If the Maemo 6 desktop is zoomable in a similar manner as liqbase I think it could be really sweet. Only panning seems a bit awkward to me as well, although I suppose choice is good. Noone will force you to have a large desktop if I understand correctly. You will start with a "display-sized" desktop (i.e. no panning) and then have the possibility to expand it.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

On my N82, the choice was there to have ASR or not. You can switch it off. I'm guessing that means the accelerometre won't report any value changes, thus not causing any screen rotation. It's like a kill switch on the feature. It would be nice if there was an option in the media player (or photo viewer etc) to have ASR disabled via software, if you want to keep ASR everywhere else.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

nymajoak, I saw the liqbase demo videos, and when I saw Maemo 6's desktop mockups, I wondered if they'd use liqbase as the engine. THAT would be cool...

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

The focus is no longer on that brainstorm I created, but this one, where we've combined efforts:

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._in_fremantle/

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

I think who ever is moderating Brainstorm has other ideas......

Mario's "Portrait Mode for Desktop and General Interface in Fremantle" brainstorm has been moved to DUPLICATE. It can no longer be commented on and you can't vote for the proposed solutions.

Your original brainstorm (the one I linked) is still active and is located in Ideas in Development.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Well. DIDn't know that. Guess they merged it.

Re: Portrait mode use cases
 

Hi!
I would love to see that Portrait mode would be available all over the phone. I think it would be nice to have the phone to fluidly change from landscape to portrait. Please make it happen :)

Niklas frisk