Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Hi, following the Maemo community activities has been always an intensive task but still was relatively feasible in the past. Not anymore, and we don't expect the volume of communication to diminish.

So what about agreeing on the channels that we officially follow? I think this is also useful for the own community members willing to know what is really going on.

• Bugzilla: all software related problems to be reported there. The Bugsquad team helps triaging and prioritizing.
• Brainstorm: feature proposals. Votes and popularity count. How you negotiate this with Bugzilla enhancements is up to you.
• http://maemo.org/news highlights. Karma news count.
• http://maemo.org/downloads. The most popular apps there are candidates to be promoted in Maemo Select.
• maemo-developers list and Development forum at talk.maemo.org. Support channels for developers. We do our best answering developer questions there.
• Community forum and maemo.org development sprints for any support to the web / community infrastructure.
• The Maemo community council has a red telephone to be used as they wish.

This means that everybody willing to interface and influence the Maemo Devices team can

• Vote, comment, test and file bugs. And also get involved in the Bugsquad team.
• Rate ideas in the Brainstorm and propose their own.
• Rate and post news aggregated to maemo.org/news.
• Download software, rate it and share your feedback at http://maemo.org/downloads.
• Ask your developer questions in the right places and help finding and documenting the right answers.
• Get involved in the Community forum and the maemo.org sprints.
• Vote your preferred Council candidates and run for election yourself. Make sure your voice is heard if you have something important to say not covered through the channels mentioned above.

Does this list make sense to you? Anything unclear or missing? I will refine this text based on your feedback and it will end up pretty soon in a documented wiki page.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

As said few times before, one thing that could be improved is the visibility of the right threads. There is many of them in forums not directly covered by the list above, but only finding them takes a lot of time. Specially when they happen to be sub-threads inside a long long generic discussion.

Please consider being a bit more strict producing or spinning off focused discussion on specific topics. We have a good example in the "Portrait mode" thread that started inside a generic thread and ended up having opinions of ragnar, konttori or myself (people directly involved in the development of Maemo). You can also help rising the attention on the right threads by pushing them through maemo.org/news (your blog, direct promotion could be considered as well).

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

this means that #maemo IRC channel on FreeNode is not official?
We use it not only to chat, but even to ask tech support, both users and developers. We do Sprint Meetings too on IRC :)
Maybe you forgot about it?

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

The contact details from Reporting security issues in Maemo should probably be in there somewhere.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

By not including #maemo in the list we are simply saying: don't expect to have someone from Maemo Devices following the activity 24/7 there. Even if chances are that you can get a reliable answer there and faster than any other channel.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Organize formal lines of communication, what a great idea, I only wish I had thought of it myself :cool:

Glad to see some steps in the right direction, perhaps we can use a n900 to follow them all in one location :D:D:D

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Can we have a list of all the people from Maemo Devices that post here. Or maybe a better way to recognise that someone is a Nokian. Like different colour of username or something.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

A "Who's Who" list was something that was considered last year, but due to a number a number of people wishing to remain off of the list and the availability of the tag in the maemo.org profile as a reasonable alternative it was never created.

I think the one big issue with identifying Nokians is that the vast majority of the Nokians participating in this community are not doing so as Nokia employees but merely as community members like the rest of us.* Unfortunately as certain people here are utterly incapable of separating these roles, it's likely to be counterproductive and potentially harmful to identify, and thus set apart, the Nokians in this community (of which there are many).

So while the people acting in an official capacity should definitely be identifiable (if not necessarily "branded"), I don't think it would be productive to mark all of the Nokians here.


*In fact, the only two people who are likely to be acting in an official capacity with anything approaching regularity are Peter and Quim.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I had asked for something similar last year sometime on Bugzilla but we pretty much came to that same conclusion anyways. I think that the fact they aren't branded as Nokia employees gives some people the impression that Nokia doesn't really take part in the community when it's really far from being the case.

The reality is that we have some Nokia employees that believe in Maemo and the community so much that they come here to be a part of it... just like us.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Well I only would want to get those members marked that are actually posting officially from Nokia. So that when someone says "there'll probably be portrait mode by the end of the year" I know it comes from someone that knows what he's talking about.

I have no problem with Nokians that are just regular community members like us. But with the influx of new members that is sure to come, there should be an easy way to distinguish regular and official users. I have already seen a new member that confused a regular poster for a Nokia employee.

Community councils should also be easier to identify.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Nokians are latest people that would write "we'll have this feature" :)

Each worker has to sign a NDA and cannot talk/write/ecc... about anything that is not already public.

This is a common practice in almost all big companies.

So, always expect only rumors :)

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Sometimes they can talk about some stuff, not about new products but some enhancements and so on. For example look at the Portrait mode thread.

And with Harmattan they are promising a lot more openness in the development process so it'll be useful to be able to see when official Nokia employees are actively participating in the community.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

GPL/LGPL doesn't mean open-development. If you look for example at PySide project, they have released it when it was almost finished.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I know. But I've got the impression that they'll be also moving more in the open-development with Harmattan. We'll have to wait for an official Nokia employee to comment on that. ;)

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Yes, the plan is to have a much more open development process with Harmattan.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

It's a very fine line to walk... and often no good deed goes unpunished. I was a Nokia employee volunteering my time, and for the most part without incident, but the few times when it became an issue it was *almost* enough to drive me off. It's even tougher for those farther up the product stream.

However, CF raises some good points. It would be cool to see certain names highlighted, say, with icons identifying them as council members or, in the case of Peter and Quim, official Nokia representatives...

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I'm a Nokian.

I think it would be a bit unfortunate to have a huge Nokia badge next to every message that I write here. Even though it's a cosmetic issue, for me it would make me feel more like a Nokia spokesperson and therefore probably less likely to make inane comments or random drivel (well, not that there wouldn't be some good from it also therefore), i.e. make me watch my words a lot more carefully.

It would also create this visible element of "us vs. them", and I'm not too sure about that also. But then again, if most people want this, then perhaps why not.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Is there any point of discussion for input on the hardware?

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I think the last thing this place needs is an 'Us vs. Them' atmosphere. There are Nokians on this forum - if you frequent the place long enough, you will learn who they are. Their participation here is voluntary, and often on their own time (have you ever looked at the timestamps of some of their posts?!). We have venues as qgil pointed at at the start of this thread for official Nokia dialog. I think we can leave it at that. I certainly do not wear my work badge when boarding an airplane, nor would I want to.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

When you put it that way, I'd rather you feel comfortable and welcome in the community without worry. Simply having that burden on you would probably keep you from posting more, further separating us. That's not what I want.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

The "us vs them" has already happened if you remember the DPAD, screen size, etc discussions.
And like I said I don't want the Nokians that are just voluntarily posting in their spare time to be exposed or something.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

The problem with discussions like this is they tend to polarize quickly and stay that way... : /

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I'm against it for Nokians - they shouldn't feel like every word they say could be misconstrued as an official Nokia stance.

However, council members already do advertise themselves by convention in the signature (and I believe should continue to do so).

It's interesting that during the last "wah, the council are evil" round it was suggested we stop advertising ourselves as it made what we said seem more "official".

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Well shouldn't you be official? You're after all elected to represent the community.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

But isn't this all a bit just putting things under the carpet ? I mean, Nokia badge or not, council sig or not, you'd all still have the same responsibilities and rights. We're already past at least one round of community badge-stripping (remember the user title discussion we had on itt ?). At one point you have to decide the benefit of showing who's actually who outweighs the potential downside of someone being taken TOO officially. Especially with the increasing influx of new users - it shouldn't really be a game finding out who the different people are, who you should pay more attention to or not.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

On futher thought it might be interesting to have different groups (badges if you wish) people could apply to, to signal their interests and status, not unlike what launchpad does. (Maemo user ? developer ? Council member ? Nokian ? Summit participant ? Country ? Qt ? GTK ? Games ? Favorite apps ?). That way even Nokia folks wouldn't stick out with blue names/badges as a sore thumb. No idea how this fits policies or if it's technically doable. Just an idea. If there is interest I'll post this in brainstorm. If not, feel free to boo me off-stage :)

EDIT: For those unfamiliar with launchpad bragging rights, this is how it looks there (not saying t.m.o. has to look anything like this, just demoing the idea).

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Odds are the different opinions come from different parties... but you knew that. ;)

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

But not to tell the community what to think. Am I going to post in any way differently after the next election? I don't think so.

The election gives the community a chance to say "this person speaks for us about matters community, developmental and organisational". It's not "this person is our boss".

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Yes exactly. It's actually the other way around, by voting you in, the community is your boss. But you still have to separate your personal opinion on the issues with that of the community. You have to argue for the benefits of the community, that's how I see it.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I disagree. By electing us the community is, in essence, saying "Yes, I agree with your views and your opinions and I'd like you to represent me." I believe my own opinions about the community, Nokia and the platform are a large part of the reason I was elected, so I choose to act on those opinions in fulfilling my role as a council member.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I'd still like to get Quim a Nokia hat and a maemo.org hat so he can check a box when he makes new posts to reflect the capacity that he's posting in and have his avatar picture reflect that. :D

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

It could have been that way, but I don't remember the councils running for the elections on different platforms. And even with time your views and opinions may change or the views and opinions of the community may change. You can't sit there and do your thing like GWB ;)
The councils are more of a conduit for the community. It's easier for Nokia if they have one person that summarizes the opinions and the zeitgeist of the community.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

CF, just be glad we don't have political parties. :D

I'm running on the "Quim needs to wear a robe and wizard hat" platform.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

:(

The implications of that statement are bad news.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

How do you mean?

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

We sort of have...
there are the FOSS party that are the religious nuts
then the Developers party - the social democratic workers
the IPhone haters party that are like the nationalists
the Normal User party who are conservatives

:D

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I thought, with that statement, Jaffa made fairly clear that he sees a change in his signature line after the next election. :(

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

I realize I should be the last one telling this but... let's at least try to keep this thread on topic.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

Trust me, after a year in this position you will too.

Re: Official points of contact with Maemo Devices @ Nokia
 

How about this then:

If you're a Nokian and you have something relevant that is official, just write "Official from Nokia" (For more security it might be necessary to provide some kind of quote or something to back it up, but if it's official there will definitely be at least a memo to quote). This way there will be no hats, robes och small yellow stars sewn onto your clothing to separate you from the rest of the Maemo community.