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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   Java for Maemo 5 (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31678)

ovjo12 2009-10-18 15:42
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fms (Post 350293)
Ok. How many applications use eRCP/eSWT at the moment?
Not many I think, not so many phones support eRCP yet.
No phone from Nokia support eRCP, but eSWT is supported in all Nokia S60 phones from version 3.2.

There is the new Sprint Titan platform with OSGI Technology in the Mobile, it will be released very soon (???), with support first for eRCP (IBM/j9) on windows Mobile devices. I did not found so much about at http://developer.sprint.com/ , but I found this about developer Tools for the Sprint Titan Platform: http://developers.sun.com/mobility/c...oads/index.jsp

fms 2009-10-18 15:56
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovjo12 (Post 350371)
Not many I think, not so many phones support eRCP yet.
No phone from Nokia support eRCP, but eSWT is supported in all Nokia S60 phones from version 3.2.
Then, personally, I do not see any reason to support these. The only reason to support any kind of Java is to get access to existing library of applications.

SubCore 2009-10-18 15:57
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovjo12 (Post 350348)
MIDP 3.0 is in Proposed Final Draft, so there is no JavaME VM with support yet. Read more here: http://jcp.org/aboutJava/communitypr...271/index.html
thank you for the link, but that posting is not about a MIDP 3.0 runtime. he just mentions that they would have to make revisions to their implementation once it comes out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fms (Post 350349)
Is the guy who has made this statement working for Nokia?
yes, i think this is a nokia employee. his picture, title and activity suggest that.

allnameswereout 2009-10-18 18:51
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubCore (Post 350383)
yes, i think this is a nokia employee. his picture, title and activity suggest that.
He is, he also has account here on t.m.o btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fms (Post 350114)
Who, other then SUN, even needs JavaFX? Are there any useful JavaFX applications? Will there ever be any? As far as I can tell, the world seems to have standardized on Flash for these purposes.
Yes, I realize that, which is why I wrote its in _SUN's_ interest.

It is, IMO, in our interest because:
1) We'd get Java ME and/or Java SE.
2) We get a more competitor to Adobe Flash and Microsoft Silverlight which is more open.

As Java hater I suppose one would see point #1 as negative.

As of now, more interesting is compatibility layer for Android, or even iPhone OS. I don't mean to run complete Android OS, but to run an application which is unique to Android without replacement/alternative/port on Maemo. Ofcourse, native is better, similar pro/con exist for WINE on Linux/x86-32 desktop.

Quote:
I have not said "no" to JavaME. In fact, I continue insisting that we absolutely need JavaME on Maemo, because there are so many applications written in JavaME on the market.
Excuse me, didn't quote the part I replied to. It was reference to your (reasonable) request not to mention Java ME applications. :)

fms 2009-10-18 19:36
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by allnameswereout (Post 350506)
As of now, more interesting is compatibility layer for Android, or even iPhone OS. I don't mean to run complete Android OS, but to run an application which is unique to Android without replacement/alternative/port on Maemo.
I doubt Nokia will ever do anything about Android compatibility, so it is purely in the hands of community. As to J2ME, there is some hope.

allnameswereout 2009-10-18 19:48
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubCore (Post 350326)
very interesting, didn't know about that!

i will add it to the Java SE Proposal:


community or nokia builds Iced Tea
+) true GPL, no binary components
-) no team so far
-) no official advertising
Hi, I put this and your previous post on wiki so we can edit it easier. I added 2 'TODO' as well. The entry is Task:Brainstorm_Java. Please feel free to delete it after you made your Brainstorm entry. The formatting is a bit messed up but I cannot fix that right now, hopefully in an hour. Formatting of this entry and Java entry should be OK now. Ciao.

Bratag 2009-10-19 00:57
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcaroll (Post 350197)
Unfortunately a lot of people, like you, think that there is a jvm in the Android platform. The vm used in Android is called Dalvik and it is not a jvm. The only thing Java about Android is the syntax and the syntax has little to do with performance. Thus your example has no relevance in the Java discussion.

The most important thing lacking in the Dalvik VM is a JIT. The difference in speed has been measured to 5-10 times faster with the JIT. The actual speed naturally depends on what you do but a better figure to use is that Java runs at about 80% of the speed of native programs.

If you had read all of my post you would have noticed that I see the need for some programs and parts of programs that run on the native platform.

However most applications are not image filtering and why would you want to to manage the memory of simple data lookup and entering app?

I think we have all see all those great C developers that "know" how handle memory of apps the leak memory, forcing us to restart the app regularly. A large number of security holes are due to developer that cannot handle a simple buffer overflow. I guess we have to expect a huge increase in mobile worms in the future.
I know all about Dalvik and regardless of what you call it its a JVM, and there is no friggin way in the world it runs at 80% of native C.

What YOU apparently are unaware of is that Android has achieved a lot of its speed improvements by cutting huge chunks out of the standard Java API and by customizing the graphics layer instead of using swing. Simply adding Java to the n900 isnt going to give us the same performance.

Lastly - memory management is required in any and all apps. Particularly a data retrieval app where its easy to lost track of how much memory a data object is using.

jaark 2009-10-19 01:31
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fms (Post 350381)
Then, personally, I do not see any reason to support these. The only reason to support any kind of Java is to get access to existing library of applications.
I don't usually get like this on forums, but your attitude is beginning to really annoy me.
Fine, you don't use Java or Java apps. Yes, we get that. In that case, the provision of a Java SE or Java ME layer will have zero impact on your usage of the device.
I can't think of any Ruby based apps off of the top of my head, but I welcome the availability (or development) of a ruby environment on the N900 (or any other platform) for the simple fact that it only increases options.

Let's look at the pros and cons of the Java environment being made available :-

Pros :
* Users can run Java (SE/ME) apps - if they want to ... no-one is forcing you to do so.

Cons :
* A few megs of storage space is used - you could spend a few minutes writing a shell script to delete all the Java stuff if you were that bothered,

There. That's it. Unless you have something constructive to say, please either STFU or find another thread, this one could probably use some attention.

@Everyone else - yeah, I've probably just fed an annoying, yet unusually persistent, troll - castigate me if you will.

fms 2009-10-19 05:10
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaark (Post 350789)
Fine, you don't use Java or Java apps. Yes, we get that. In that case, the provision of a Java SE or Java ME layer will have zero impact on your usage of the device.
You are missing the point. The point was that people do use JavaME apps but not JavaSE apps. The point also was that it is only worth implementing frameworks that are in wide use.

Quote:
I can't think of any Ruby based apps off of the top of my head
And that is why Ruby is not available on the tablets out of the box, isn't it?

Quote:
Cons :
* A few megs of storage space is used - you could spend a few minutes writing a shell script to delete all the Java stuff if you were that bothered,
Well, there is third-party JavaSE for the tablets (Jalimo). You can go to Extras and install it from there right away, and get all the Java goodness, the command line launch interface, the CLASSPATH fiddling, etc.

If you want Java to be present on tablets by default though, this will cost Nokia money and time developing and integrating it. Don't you think it should be counted among cons as well?

BaKSo 2009-10-19 05:17
Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 349670)
JavaSE would indeed be what Blackboard runs. It has a forum system - I never worked out why it needed to be java. I can't reply to anything from an NHS computer because the java on those is out of date (they run XP with IE6 :p and regular staff don't have admin access to update.) I was under the impression that n900 could handly that sort of java? Did I not see it running a chat applet in one of the videos? (Or did I dream that bit?)
okay this one give me a lil worry, i need to open blackboard on my browser as most of university in the world use this blackboard for their online learning tools.. i was thinking that blackboard need javascript not the javaSE...

so is there anyone here can confirm or try blackboard site on their N900? if they have one..


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