Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Your point was already known, as its already discussed in this thread/brainstorm/wiki...

Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 

I would love to get Math Drag'n (aka Symbolic Equation Manipulator) working b/c I don't know of any other free program that allows manipulating equations via drag-and-drop (very useful!). This program works better when you have lots of screen space as it typically has two or three panes open at once, but I hoped it would at still be usable.

Using my N810, I clicked on the install icons for both the bottom two options and the install failed. It said it was unable to find the package file. I looked at the repository it had added to the Application Catalog and it had a blank distribution field. This page has the proper Application Catalog settings for older versions of Maemo (no mention of Maemo 5). When I corrected that I was able to see three Jalimo examples, but not Jalimo itself. Apparently that requires Red-Pill mode. :( Not exactly something that's going to get widespread acceptance.

Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 

As a user you're not suposed to install Jalimo itself. An app using it will pull it automatically.

As I said, Jalimo solves the "developing on Java for Maemo" issue, not the "full Java SE" nor Java ME issue (unless you consider their PhoneME efforts)

Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 

Try the SlideRule - it will simplify equations for you and let you take derivatives, symbolically. It will also make calculations with ratios.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Hi srk052004
The N900 does provide push email, either with Nokia Messaging or Mail for Exchange. Both are pre-installed on the N900

Mike C

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Well, this thread is about Java support and you are asking for a specific PalmOS application to be ported to Maemo. I assume it is not written in Java, so Java support is not going to help you there.

As I understand, the applications you are talking about all came from third parties, i.e. not from Palm itself. So, it is probably wrong to assume that Maemo Devices (group inside Nokia that works on Maemo) is supposed to provide you with them for free. On the other hand, if you and a thousand or two other users are willing to pay for such applications, somebody will make them for Maemo sooner or later. Before that happens, you are welcome to check the default PIM and Maps apps that come with N900.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Please stay on topic, guys. "PIM on N900 sucks" has nothing to do with "Java for Maemo 5", except for the oblique reference to Dalvik apps being ported to N900 if it had a good JVM.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Mmm...doubtful. First of all, Maemo is already pretty easy to develop for. Secondly, having Java support is not going to help any there, as your original PalmOS apps are most certainly not written in Java. Having Java mostly helps running existing Java apps.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Just to recap, The debate got to a point of not whether Java is good to have or not, BUT what flavour of Java would be best to focus on. Please make your vote in the Brainstorm.

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._to_fremantle/

Mike C

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Well, all the choices there are talking about Java ME. So no choice of flavor there.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

That is why there is http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._to_fremantle/

Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 

Thanks! This is somewhat offtopic (except that it relates to my Java needs), but it technically looks like it deals with expressions, not full equations. I'm looking to be able to enter, for example, "F = m * a" and then move the "a" to the left side to get "F / a = m" and then substitute some other expression for "m", except obviously with more complicated equations. But SlideRule does look like it has some interesting functionality.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

About performance, I'll quote from a SheevaPlug (also ARM) wiki page concerning Java:

[EDIT]FWIW, I just ordered a SheevaPlug.

I also read about an add-on:

WTF? Seems like Java ?E from IBM...

http://www-01.ibm.com/software/wireless/wece/

The Java ME version of this product is
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/wireless/weme/
[/EDIT]

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

A lot of interesting reading about JavaME and the future on the Symbian platform.
http://mobilephonedevelopment.com/archives/919

Don't forget to read answers from Aleksi Uotila, Nokia.
http://ideas.symbian.org/Idea/View?ideaid=292
http://ideas.symbian.org/Idea/View?ideaid=711

I think it is really important to understand Nokia's JavaME strategy, it will help the Maemo community to make good decisions.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Good news!
Nokia will contribute its Java Runtime to Symbian foundation under EPL, read more here: http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/ja...mbian-exchange

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

The way Dalvik and Android are combined, you'd almost be better off re-writing the application rather than porting it. Whilst the code is standard Java, the user interface and interaction are all designed for Android systems so would have to be rewritten.

I'd be up for J2SE, but don't really care about J2ME. ME is pretty poor to develop with as it is based on an old version of SE. Not many ME based apps are worth having, and I include my Uni Summer Project with that comment!

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

TBH, the only J2ME app I want in the mobile version of the Good Beer Guide ;)

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I'd like to take my shopping list with me 'Smart shopper'. I can live without the rest.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

With j2se it would be interesting try a porting of tuxguitar (tuxguitar.herac.com.ar)

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I agree. There is a disconnect with regard to real world usage of smartphones, and their vocal fans in general...

With a little work I was able to make Nokia's N800 series provide for most of my mobile needs and have it BT tether to whatever cell service my company provided.

I suspect I will be able to make the N900 suit my needs as well, plus it has additional PIM software out of the box.

I had an iPAQ WM device that had all the things you mentioned after purchasing additional programs in some cases. I was very happy with the fact that I could carry all my essential data with me as well as run TomTom navigation apps... That is until I used it one day in the "real world".

While connecting through ORD on a business trip I had the iPAQ out and was using it with one hand with my carry-on slung over my shoulder and my brief in my other hand. I was bumped and the iPAQ went flying across the terminal floor. I gathered it up along with the battery and battery cover which had came loose, stuffed it in my bag and continued on to the gate. When got off the ground again I put everything together and found that it worked... phew. Time for a cocktail or two and a T-bone steak ala carte as we flew over to the Golden state. :)

When I hit the rental car desk at my final destination I found that all my data had been lost and would have to be re-entered, any program that I purchased would have to be reinstalled, and although I still had TomTom on the memory card, because its program configuration was lost it was useless without a reinstall.

Needless to say, never again with Windows Mobile no matter how good it says that it has gotten. I couldn't communicate the frustration and helplessness I experienced that day to the WinMo fan boys then either... it also seemed like there was a disconnect.

***
About Maemo and Nokia's efforts so far I will say this. If there is something already out there that works for you out of the box then Maemo won't beat it... out of the box.

Out of the box the N900 will have less software available, more bug related software updates, and a much steeper learning curve...

However....and imho, 3 months later, the N900 owner will be happier with his purchase and their satisfaction will continue to grow as they realize that:

* More and more free applications have become available for the N900 and that they had a say in the development of some of those applications or can configure them more to their specific needs then ones available for sale on other phones.

* Each firmware update that they did receive over the air for their N900 actually improved its functionality and didn't cripple its connectivity even further or undo any changes that they may have already made.

* The learning process for the N900 was not painful at all and that they now feel a part of a vibrant, growing community that shares their enthusiasm for the device and its OS and is less concerned with how much time or money they spend on add-on applications or plug-ins.

However, in business time = $$$. If you need immediate satisfaction and can not invest the up front time required to make Maemo your own, then perhaps this phone is not for you... ymmv :)

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

How about you discuss this somewhere else instead of in the Java for Maemo 5 thread? None of your posts in this thread have been on-topic...

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

False. I'd say about 80% of my posts are on-topic, but your "silo" mentality does not allow you to see this.

Anyway, I've had enough. When three (3) Maemo biggies show nothing but indifference or contempt for my perspective, I know it's time for me to delete my posts and leave (which I will do now). When Nokia actually wants to sell flagship devices, I can be brought back for a consult--with pay.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

What's a Maemo biggie? And do they have control over what Nokia sells?

I just want someone to port OpenJDK to Maemo.

EDIT. and Dalvik! I forgot Dalvik! That too, please.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Yeah, a lot of the older Windows Mobile (mostly branded as Windows CE) pda only type devices used a single pool of volatile RAM as RAM AND storage. Who thought that this was a good idea needs to be stabbed, of course, but it's important to realise that this has no bearing on newer devices, using non-volatile flash for their storage.

Still, Windows Mobile has godawful fit and finish (a bit like their desktop operating systems) and it really pokes through at times, even when using HTC's excellent TouchFlo

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Sounds like another good idea for a widget based app to me. You're getting very good at generating good ideas Kathy. Keep going please :)

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

So that would be what 3 out of the 4 posts you have :).

Sorry I know thats offtopic

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I believe there's an app called 'shopper' which might be ported? I'm optimistic. And I gather pyrecipe has a shopping list facility. No idea how useful that is for what I want till I can try it out.

But thinking about all the thousands (millions?) of java games and software out there (Some very good and some total crap) it would solve the problem of "Only 55 apps" if we had java!

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

My shopping list application is the 'todo' application on my Palm PDA.. I have a semi-permanent list of items (milk, cheese, onions etc) there and I simply tick them off (as in removing a tick if there's one) at the moment I realise I'm out of, say, rice. I only rarely have time to visit shops, so when the chance comes up I simply walk in and get my PDA out. There will be a list of 'unticked' groceries there, and I don't have to remember anything.

This works very well for me. I saw the idea mentioned in a PDA magazine years ago and thought it sounded stupid. But later I found that it was brilliant.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

*push*

since the brainstorm voting system has been changed (did i miss the announcement?), all the votes have been lost or hidden, so i would kindly ask anyone interested in java to vote again plz! :)

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I put in a vote for Java ME. The reason is:

- On any computer equipped with a browser (that includes Java) I can reach my workstation.
- The N900 has a great browser which works wonderful.
- It just lacks the Java support needed.

To do what? Use Secure Global Desktop (SGD) to reach my workstation (safely placed in a datacenter) and get work done.

For more on SGD: Wiki page 1.
For the type of Java support needed: Wiki page 2.

:) I really hope Java support will arrive soon. It would finish the "computer in your pocket".

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

JavaME doesn't add anything to a browser. If you want support for java applets you probably want JavaSE.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I agree. In addition, most internet banks need java support. No Java - no money, no money - no fun. Java is a must, at least if the N900 is to be a "mobile computer".

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Hi!
If I understand this discussion thread correctly - you are invited to vote in the Brainstorm section to make your opinion heard.
Please refer to post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=149
Jan-Paul

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I understand your remark, thanks. The application I'm trying to use on the N900 is SUN Secure Global Desktop.

It uses the browser to perform authorization (log-in on an HTTPS connection) and than starts an X11 session (on the client) that displays the remote computer (workstation). So the actual application is outside the browser. And requires the JavaME.

At least - that's what I got from the Wiki pages in my previous post and my experience using this on an actual computer (both MAC and PC).

Regards,
Jan-Paul

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

eww, java is appalling.
But it's also an industry standard :|

SGD? Why not ssh like normal people. >.> And if you seriously need a remote desktop, there's VNC, which you can also tunnel through ssh to encrypt. In any case, browser apps are a bad thing, and java is a bad thing. When I heard the n900 didn't even do java, I was like "yay, that's the phone for me". But I can still understand, that some people want it. But that's nothing more then just a sad fact.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

Hi Shapeshifter,
Forgive my ignorance - how could SSH provide access to the SSGD server? Where could I find out more to learn about this?
Thanx!
Jan-Paul

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

I'm sorry, ssh does not help with that. I was simply criticising the fact that people even use something like SGD, I'm guessing this was the choice of your employer. Stuff like SGD and lots of other java dependant stuff simply is reality in todays businesses as java is the industry standard. And I was just saying, that this is suboptimal.

You definitely need java.

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

It looks like, somebody needs to pay jalimo's guys attention to this thread.

There were positive promises here: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/j...er/000418.html As far as I know, N900 is already in Sebastian's hands.

Update. Pinged Jalimo: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/j...er/000429.html and http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/j...er/000430.html

Let's wait...

Re: Java for Maemo 5
 

This other thread has instructions for getting Sun's Java SE working fairly well on the N900.

Re: Java support on N900, the missing thing!!
 

Unfortunately Qt Jambi has been discontinued.

http://qt.nokia.com/about/news/previ...ease-available