Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

a tv out - button to load a second file on the screen to edit them next to each other (with the tv option you get a lot of space), but still the input remains small, dont know if its really useful for editing maybe its more interesting for a viewer

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I don't think or I don't know if we can have access to the second screen.
I think there's no support for Xinerama in the N900, not sure.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

This might be a little far fetched,, but bear with me. How about making xournal a system capability as well as a standalone application?

Let me explain. Say I was developing a media player for maemo, and I knew of the system's xournal capability. I'd hook into that and users of my app would be able to attach xournal notes to their media files by clicking on the "jot" button on the media player.

If I had a thought on a particular RSS item (assuming the RSS app developer had also made use of the systemwide xournal capability), I could jot down notes associated with that item.

Same for a contact. Same for a call log entry. A picture maybe. I could go on.

How does that sound?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

It sounds... far fetched :)

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

But if everything looks bright as it is right now.. a nice little surprise is coming.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

i can definitely see the usefulness of being able to attach a note to a music or video file. or a contact.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Is there any chance that the Fremantle version will eventually support plain text typing via the keyboard; or even better, a bluetooth keyboard when/if the proper BT profile is available?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

It will eventually support ALL of the desktop features.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

These are the videos showing how Xournal rotates in Fremantle.
Asap I'll try to make a screencast, should look better.

This is with firmware 41-10:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnlvMOy-HOs

While this is with newest 42-11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am4OPfI1xUo

As you can see rotation in 41-10 was much smoother and nicer.
Wonder what happened.

Aniello

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Thanks for the vids. Yes, the effect on the old firmware looks much better (even if not quite the in-place rotation that I would love to see!). Is there a bug filed about this?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I just saw that on youtube! It's really weird.. maybe there's some code that you need to enter/update to kind of "match" the new firmware rotation? dunno

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I've filed a bug, number #6203, we'll see

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Package 21 is in Extras Testing, go vote for it!


These are, btw, the changes in this version:

* Fix for a small issue when trying to overwrite existing files (only a notification was appearing, not a dialog asking for Yes/No).

* Sports Share via Services (thanks to Qwerty for figuring this out)

* Few more keyboard bindings (arrow keys and arrow keys + CTRL modifier)

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I checked this out on the N900... Here are my thoughts:
- keyboard panning is a good idea, but the offset seems arbitrary, and also far too small to be useful (where useful means >= as fast as using the pan button). My suggestion would be to have it pan vertically by lines (when on lined paper), and something more sensible horizontally (e.g. maybe the length of an average word or two). Also, I would recommend mapping wasd to the same functions (for left/right-handed use), and making right/d at the edge of the page act as carriage return (and possibly left/a at the left edge do the opposite?).
I think this would be more usable than just incremental panning with the arrow keys, as it would allow the user to page forward/backward/newline with one hand while writing with the other. This would also completely satisfy my request for something of this sort from earlier in this thread.

Does this sound doable?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

If you CTRL-<arrow key> it goes at incrementes of 100 (default), without the CTRL modified it goes at increments of 10 (default).
The unit here is pixels.

The bg paper type is configurable (soon it'll be available).

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Your program is incredibly useful and easy to use. I'm glad to see it moving on to the N900! If I ever buy one Xournal will be the first application that I will install.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I Agree...

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Does some features like this exist in xournal:

Easily use and cycle through a predefined set of background images, to use xournal to take notes on top of a lecturers presentation slides?

Edit: Ok, I RTFM and I see functionality like this exists (with pdf annotation). Does someone use it for lecture notes?

Edit: Or would lecture-note taking better be served with some other application?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I havn't got my N900 yet but it will come this week so then I can report back how it goes with lecture notes. But I think it will be to slow when it isn't possible to make a page down on the screen. I would love to see if i write a long line up->down it would make a page down or if the hand could be configured so it could make a page down.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Anidel, This is a great item for the N900 and works pretty good on the rotation screen as well. Thanks! Just a couple of thoughts or suggestion that I do not know if you have reviewed yet. Being able to change the background of the paper such as yellow and pink and maybe a blue would also allow for sorting of notes consitant with some legal pads. Also I had a program on my E71 that was a pretty cool note taking device. I believe it was called active notes but this would allow you to put a thumbnail of a photo on your note page which would allow you to make notations around the photo and the thumbnail would link to the photo its self. Another feature that this employed was it was able to embed a recording on the page as well. Would you be able to review something like this and maybe impliment it into your program. Very nice program as it stands and thank you!

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

At the Maemo-Barcelona Long Weekend we had a round table on how Xournal could be improved and how to better handle the myriad of tools Xournal has on the desktop while keeping it as simple and intuitive as possible.

The roundtable was REALLY helpful and this is a summary of what we decided was best for Xournal.

Analyzing the common usages of Xournal we highlighted three main cases:

1) Drawing
2) Note taking
3) PDF annotation

We then went thru all the tools that Xournal provides and grouped them by usefulness for each use case.
Bear in mind that many, if not all, the tools may be useful in all the use cases.

We came up with this groupings:

* Draw

- Pen
- Eraser
- Highlighter
- Hand
- Layers

* Note taking

- Pen
- Hand
- Vertical Space
- Text

* PDF Annotation

- Pen
- Text
- Highlighter (in line mode)
- Hand

The Undo, Redo and Color / Thickness tools will be available in all modes.
We thought that Xournal will have different toolbars with different set of tools in it.
Each mode will have a default toolbar, but nothing will prevent you from changing toolbars.
You will be able to switch modes by means of Filters button in the Application Main menu.

Xournal will also support Pages. You can flip through pages by flipping with your fingers to the
left or to the right of the screen. We thought that one needs to be in Hand mode (where you can pan around
the page) to be able to use this gesture as it makes sense to be there.

To maximize screen real estate we also thought that the toolbar may disappear as soon as you
touch the screen to draw/write on it. When you stop drawing (after a short timeout) the toolbar will automatically
appear again.
This way there will be no need for a "hovering" icon or weird gesture to make it appear when you need it.

To maximize the space on the toolbar we also come up with a neat idea for the Color icon.
It will show a circle (or a square box) filled with the chosen color and as tick as the chosen tickness.
When you tap the icon you'll be able to change the color among a set of predefined colors (tapping on each
of them will bring a color chooser so that you can change that particular "box" to a custom color of your own) and
you will also be able to change the tickness between "Fine", "Medium", "Thick" and "Very Thick" (icons will show how
thick these settings are, so that you won't be confused).

Finally, the Settings will reside in the menu and you will be able to change paper style, color, manage layers, add/delete pages and so on

I will post snapshots of drawing of the interface as soon as I will have them.

Moreover I am going to post screenshots that the cool OpenBossa's UI Designer Patricia Montenegro made for Xournal.
This will be the "next generation" UI for Xournal but will not arrive to you tablet any time soon :)
It's amazingly beatiful but this will means a looot of work.

PS: I will also put Xournal into the Maemo.org GIT repo so that people can contribute with patches.
PS2: Nothing in here is "definitive" so your feedback will be taken into account. The roundtable will never be over for Xournal :)

Aniello

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Here there are the screenshot of the "next generation" Xournal (some time next year):

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_fV1V8sW1L9s/Sy...xournal_01.jpg

Full "album" here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/anidel/XournalNextGenUI

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Btw, I didn't forget about older Maemo distributions.
I am trying my best to make the next version available for OS2006 up to Fremantle.

But the Next Gen UI will probably be Fremantle or Harmattan only.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Wow... just wow. If you can pull off the "next-gen UI" design and make it anything like that, I'll be really impressed. That's gorgeous. To be honest, though, I've been using Xournal for note taking, and having to switch to the hand tool is still constantly bugging me. I know I've been moaning about this for a while now, but I'm a bit concerned about the usability with the autohide panels. It's already sometimes hard to keep up with lecture notes when I have to switch tools to move to the next line (the screen's too small to write at the page-width zoom level), and I'm worried that if you add even a small timeout, that will be less usable. Don't get me wrong - I think the panel mechanism is brilliant, but this one issue just keeps nagging at me, and I keep thinking there must be a better way to do it.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Unfortunately with a lack of hardware keys, it's hard to make the switch fast.
There's no easy way to switch to "pan" mode.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Yeah, I know... :/ I'll keep thinking about it, though. I don't blame you - you're doing a wonderful job, and this is just a limitation of the device.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Really digging the user flow that these screens showed; the idea of layerd menus is something that I might have to work into Katana.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

This new UI looks very impressive. This looks like it would be useful on other Maemo/Qt apps as well.

I could see this being useful in Katana for sure. Now, are you thinking it could be possible to tie Xournal in with Katana (plugin for example) for note taking?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Uhm ... sorry.. what's Katana? :)

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Anyway all these compliments on the UI go to Patricia (aka Patifa). :)
She's also behind Canola and other cool UI intefaces you've seen around..

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

great work!!!

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

I am really liking xournal and the responsiveness of the N900 screen really suits being able to handwrite just like on paper! :)

I have to echo Jaem's request for a panning that doesn't require switching modes as i find it the only major drawback in using the app so far.

I can see the difficulty in implementing such an option but how about something basic like a setting to remap the volume buttons from zoom to pan up/down?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

The "Hand" icon (soon to be remove as it is offensive in some countries in favor of a different one) now switches to PAN mode.
In a near future in PAN mode you will also be able to move between pages by flipping with your finger to the left or the right.

I don't think I will bind panning to anything different than the hardware cursor keys.

I am also thinking at this solution:

I like to hide the toolbar when you are drawing on the screen, so that you have maximum space. When you stop drawing and after a very short timeout (0.2-0.3 secs [configurable]) it will appear again.. I can also make appear two big arrow overlaid buttons (a la PDF reader) so that you can go to next/prev pages and, may be, I can make appear something you can drag to pan around?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

That sounds useful, but what Cas07 and I were getting at was that the problem is the modality - or more specifically, the time it takes to switch modes. The screen is pretty small to write on, so I personally (and probably others) end up zooming in a bit. If I have to switch modes often (more than once per line, in this case), and pan, it significantly lowers its utility for note-taking where speed is an issue (e.g. lecture notes, as I mentioned). I agree with Cas07 that this is not an easy problem to solve in a way that will make everyone happy, but from what I've seen, this is a fairly common use-case.
That's fine by me, but what's wrong my previous suggestion about using the arrow keys to scroll by line, rather than pixel? I'm sorry to bring it up again, but I don't think you answered it very clearly. As far as I can see, it wouldn't adversely affect anyone wanting to pan for other reasons, but it would be a quick fix for the problem I'm having. You mentioned that Ctrl+arrow will pan by a larger amount, but it's still essentially an arbitrary amount, in relation to a unit like page lines. If this isn't practical for some reason, I'll apologize for belabouring it, but it seems like it would be a simple and useful solution.

Good idea, but again - the time delay - whether I have to click a button on the other side of the screen, or wait a few hundred milliseconds for a timeout, it doesn't make much of a difference. That said, I like this idea, and it would be useful - just not as a solution to what I'm thinking of.

Sorry to keep bugging you about this. Hopefully we can find something that works for everyone. :)

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Because Xournal doesn't have "line" unit.
It's a drawing...

How do you know how much big you write or how high a "line" of handwritten text is?

It's fine to insist, don't worry.. it's just that it way too complicated to come up with a "line height" personalized to your own style of writing.

I keep thinking at solutions and welcome you to do the same...maybe one of us will have a striking idea that works for everyone :)

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Just some brainstorming:
- line height: it could be customizable in the paper background definition and the be used as a line size
- panning page: i don't see anything else than gestures for that. Since the 900 has a screen smaller than the surface, it should be reasonable to detect a gesture that starts 'out' of the screen. If it happens such a case, the touch can be interpreted as a gesture and not a drawing (as the browser works for the cursor mode). With a gesture from top to bottom or viceversa, the screen could be panned exactly half of its height. Could it be a reasonable solution for note taking?

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

No biggie; Katana is a bible reader application currently under development for Maemo 5. See details and progress here.

The user flow aspect of the UI is something that I'm taking to task with personally with Katana. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it to the UI event (or the one in Cali) so that I could learn more about the UI frameworks so that I'd have a tighter control of thoughts in this area. But seeing what has been done with Xournal gives me hope that I'm on the right path, plus some ideas ;)

Might need to contact Patifa and get some homework in.

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Hi guys,

if you modify your xo-xournal.xml file (in /usr/share/xournal/) and edit the Toolbar item at the end, add this line before the Fullscreen toolitem:

You will have the Fullscreen icon nicely aligned to the right.

Aniello

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Shaping nicely...

Xournal menus

http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/s/1537...7ec244b1b5.jpg

Re: Xournal for Fremantle
 

Finally a new update of Xournal is in Extras... it took a while to get 10 thumbs up in Testing.

Enjoy and file bugs!