Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

No! Don't put the commentary to bed, I just made popcorn!

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

It's not about a single statement, but about problems that can arise due to mis-communications and mis-understanding. My badly constructed phrases and limited vocabulary are a good example of that - often a native English speaker expresses and understands thoughts in a different way than non-native speakers, where their way of expression often varies according to their mother language (words used, phrase construction).
In other words: statements from non-native speakers should be taken with a grain of salt :-)

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

@eldar

i have secret contacts. i am way better than you in numerous ways i wont tell you just because.

dodging questions about the origin of your n900, firmware,.. that really is so obivous that it would have been the smartest thing to come clean about it allready.

if you don't say directly that you have 100% legal device, and you are holding it with nokias approval, what are the options and what should we think about that? you must very well know the speculation about your n900 if you registered here......

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Hey eldar (and twaelti) no real offense meant-- I was teasing about the assumptions over people here, not language barriers.

It's funny as heck IMO for someone, ANYone, to pop in and assume they know the backgrounds of every participant. Pure hubris.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

How many grains of salt to be taken when reading a translated review with access to unofficial hardware and unknown firmware?

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Because his firmware contains proprietary Google applications. Distributing such without Google's permission is not allowed.

If Mer would distribute Nokia binaries without Nokia's consent the same would happen to Mer. Thats hypothetic example btw.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

I remember the good old days before the release of the n800!

Texrat brings back any memories? :D

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

That you obtained this device via illegal ways (the 'cool' word is 'connections' I suppose) is one thing. That you write about it before product release is an entirely different issue. The combination two together is what disgusts me. Jealous? You think people are jealous? You think I'd be jealous because of paparazzi? The only situations I have respect for what people like you do is when there are ethics involved. The kind of documents we read on Wikileaks. Stuff like Deep Throat.

A review is impossible because the product is not final! You mean preview.

Rest assured several non-Nokians on this forum have a prototype unit but are under NDA and therefore cannot write a preview. This is precisely because the product is not ready yet. Instead, if they experience bugs, they will most likely provide feedback about them to Nokia. Several Nokia Shop have a prototype unit as well, and various users on this forum have tried the device.

The haven't anything was a referral to Nokia N920.

You are running beta snapshots which did not pass QA. They are not meant for end users or preview. You do not have the final hardware; you have a prototype. God knows which prototype, you're certainly not open about it. 0% of customers will care about bugs which you experienced in [this] beta software or hardware; they only care about the final product.

Instead of being egocentric and getting a lot of ad revenue you should have contacted Nokia prior to getting the funny idea to write a preview. Also, bold conclusions are not recommended in previews because they are previews.

PS: how can you run 34-14 in June? Was that firmware from 2008 or something.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Yeah, which is why I led off with "Here we go again". I saw Milhouse's "thanks" and actually laughed out loud. Ah, those were the days... :D

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

There are plenty of non-native speakers who post just fine on here.

I don't agree with the quoted statement at all.

The problem is not about miscommunication, unless of course, he didn't mean to say that

a) he won't reveal the mysterious fw version number
b) he won't reveal how he got it.

If that's being miscommunicated, then you are correct. Otherwise, language isn't really an issue here.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Am I the only one who really doesn't care where he got his device? This isn't a police state, and if someone broke their NDA to give it to him, I have better things to be morally outraged about.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

The whole friggin' mine.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Yes.


.....:p

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

The rant does your user name proud. :D

But seriously, point missed.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

The firmware can be flashed (heck even OTA) after the hardware is put together.

So when will you tell us which corporation which sells phones in Moscow are you working for?

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

I disagree (hence my earlier post about if any company really wanted to pursue a case for damages to namebrand). Customers in general aren't informed and won't look more into depth into things like this. It's kinda like the effect the media has on science. Also why I stressed that it's important to point out these things (firmware, hardware (is it a prototype, finalized?).

You wouldn't review an alpha or beta version of Ubuntu or a beta version of Windows 7 as if it was a finalized build of it. Hence also my (somewhat poor I guess) analogy earlier.

It's not as much where he got the device, as is the device official, Is it up to date? All these things are important when you do a review. For example, take an alpha version of Firefox compared to the RC of Firefox.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

I know this is off topic, but do you remember that guy's user name?

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

OMG I couldnt read and answer so fast, but i try to do my best. Sorry if i miss someone questions :)

mobiledivide
I hope that OTA will work fine. But for instance go from 34-4 to 34-14 is not so easy. You could download OTA FW, but have to use PC to update due to different memory organizations. Hope it wont be an issue in future.

Bratag
I'm understand when someone dissapointed that someone else have all up-to-date toys. It happens. On my table right now - 2 robots which will be launch later this year, 3 MID, 2 phones, 1 netbook, 2 mp4 players - none of them are announced. And what? If you want to know how to get latest devices trying to be Eldar Murtazin :) Receipe is so simple. And i wont mention this question about device anymore, no point to discuss.

Laughing Man
N900 is mainstream in comparisson with N810, even with N97/N97 mini it wont be a mainstream. mass production of Maemo devices planned to 2011-2012 years. Before QT integration it will be just an expiriment and devices to show new OS to the market, to grew user base. That's all.

About bug reports. All devices for test have crash logger. Astonished that you guys dont know so simple things. This logs are sending to Nokia site directly. And collect by team which devoted to software part.

bugelrex


Just installed not a very long ago update which correct battery life. For me it works around 10 hours (N97 in the same condition around 11 hours)

Some digits

WiFi - 4 hours
Browsing 3G - 2.5 hours (unfortunatelly have some problems with test programm, it crashes MicroB, so not sure about that results, possibly 3 hours, radio part is optimized but depends from network configuration/country)
Video playback around 3-3/5 hours
Music player - now I didnt check it with new FW, old one around 12 hours only, it looks strange due to the same HW DAC33 like in N97 (i wait for 20 hours at least)

So normally it works for the whole day. Contacts is not very power consumption as I think (around 80 contacts with statuses)

zerojay
Please, read my review and not discuss you own thoughts which aren mine.

In review discussed problems with OS itself, not current problems of stability and I show this in some exclamation several times. So I dont see any reason to change review if it wont be changes in OS (like MMS, like other things). I could say when they will happens and thats not this year.

livefreeordie
You are w8 too much from 140 symbols in twitter.

i compare things which could be compared. Please check what Samsung do with Limo devices (Vodafone M1/H1) - contacts etc Vodafone 360.Thats only today.

Samsung have own development of Linux branch, which looking promising for now. It doesnt mean that situation will be the same even next year. Because they put a lot of efforts on some other things, OS.

Open OS isnt a key for success. You could build propriety OS and have a great success (check Apple story).

1) no way for that. Handheld device could replace in 5 years PC which we see today on market. But future PC or descktops, whatever will be different in all ways. So gap between devices will exists

2) Thats trend to make "open" platform. Dont think that it so great. But it will be some winners, some loosers. Openess is not a key for success.

3) from device to device no, from desktop sometimes but problems minor and very well described (will be checked and corrected for sure)




Ohh it takes so much time to answer :)

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

What point? That he shouldn't bash prerelease firmware? I agree about that, but I'll repeat that I thought his article was more balanced than his twitter comments.

Just a shoutout to jussi
 

Hey Jussi Mäkinen, I heard you're given' out n900's without NDA's could i get one?



i'll be your bestest friend!!!


edit: it seems i'll have to do a little more


ME LOVE YOU LONG TIME!!!

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Of course you aren't. You yourself said that Nokia isn't giving review units. May it be because.... (wait for it).... (suspense).... they don't consider the unit is ready for reviews yet?

I have read your Twitters and I would love to read the report you just published, but it is Russian. And you yourself mocked the Google Translator.

While it is pretty obvious what you don't care about, once again: you are not being criticized by what you do. You are being criticized by how you do it.

And just for the record, I am not all that impressed by the N900 - I am not getting one.

Nokia devices are updated just before shipping (ask Texrat who worked in Nokia). Also, everytime I have bought a Nokia device in a Nokia store, the clerk offered to update the software before me leaving.

We know the changes won't be dramatic, like the won't add MMS or portrait support overnight. But they way you put it, Nokia is willing to let a show stopping 3G bug go into production without any care or attention to it. Sorry, I am not buying it.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

I don't think there is Lex Nokia where he lives.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Eldar,
The battery report is very much appreciated, especially the comparison with N97.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

He had a couple, and I have a funny infamous post somewhere that GA saved, but offhand I don't...

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Tonight's descent into chaos is brought to you by Twizzlers, the candy with spin!

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Yes, I agree, that's why I wanted more comments :)

I don't agree entirely. Being open is a key advantage against Apple, and competing against their halo is hard enough as it is. Getting the FOSS crowd backing an OS could make the difference.

But yes, even a closed source OS can be successful :( .


Disagree strongly. In 5 years, desktops will be even faster, yes, but phones will be fast enough to be "good enough" for 99% of the business user's laptop needs. Screen size is obviously a problem.

Thanks for showing up.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Yeah, in that regard it will grow. But as for bug reports, crash logs aren't everything (as someone who use to read crash logs and as someone who has submitted them before). It's helpful to actually have people tell you what was happening, etc..etc..

It's like a study I'm doing in virtual reality now, sure we can use the video we have of them drawing the room and the objects to figure out what they're doing. But by adding a verbal component we can not only tap into what they're thinking but also get there alot faster.

I disagree with you there. I don't think there's a need for an open OS as in open as in Linux is free or open to modify. But the winner will be whoever is open as in their OS will be found on the most products. Thus open to hardware.

As much marketshare and mindshare Apple has now, there is no way they will ever control the most marketshare simply for the fact that they limit themselves to their products. Their software, their products. But a competitor like Android or whoever else allows their OS to be put anywhere can be installed anywhere and everywhere. Eventually it would just outnumber Apple on sheer # of devices being offered and accessiblity to the population.

Will Apple still be successful say 50 years down the line? It's extremely likely simply for the reason their business strategy is "We don't need the mass marketshare, we rather have say 10-20% and charge a high premium on those and keep that percentage". And that's where they are today in the PC market.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

livefreeordie

You trying to catch Apple (or sorry Nokia heavily trying) but some others players are growing right now and Nokia isnt ready for things which are coming. Apple in terms of business model is not a rival for Nokia, is different story with moderate sells (maximum of sales is close, really close - device).

Desktops - issue with handheld devices only one - they are handheld (no big screen, no enough memory, no enough video accelerator power etc). You arent right about desktops. And some new technologies are always emerged (some of them i like a lot) No handheld could support them

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

99% is pretty strong. I'd say the smaller screens knock out about 15% of typical business needs (spreadsheets, documents, etc). From experience I can say I was able to do about 80% of my typical work on an N800 and that was 2 years ago... but 99%? I don't think we'll ever see that day.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

That's why I included HDMI out. Would you bring a laptop if you could connect your phone to any TV at 1920x1080 and use KOffice?

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Please stop flaming and that childish conversation. If you want to blame me in something - go on and do it. But do not w8 any answer from me. I dont have time to spent it on flame.

Laughing Man
I'm not a beta tester :( Through the year I'm testing around 250 devices. But I do it only for one reason, I need to understand realisation of every function, trend, quality etc. I need that things in my research projects.

No one is asking me to report about bugs, previously it was possible, now do not see any reason, too short time before launch. A lot of bugs described in documents (it will be funny to publish this docs and procedure to crash device - sure a lot of people will play in that sort of rubbish game)

I answer in previous post about Apple. Is not a player of whom Nokia have to care now. Next 2 years it will be a battle between Nokia and Samsung for global dominance. I'm not sure who will win this war. Too much unclearance. Now Samsung is really aggressive (Corby, Touch Phones, Connections with carriers - like Vodafone 360 etc).

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

This is cool. Eldar is in the house! Welcome!

I sure wish I could read Russian.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

livefreeordie
check data how much desktops using for games

HDMI is just an output - you need space for movies etc handheld devices wont have enough space for that in next 10 years or 100 years. In comparisson with desktop solutions, the last one will have cheaper and better storages. Better video output. Better interfaces (WiMax etc). You are dreaming :)

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Ah, ****. That means the binaries have debugging symbols enabled. Which slows down the actual performance, and battery life.

Did you run PowerTOP?

It'd require some effort, and maybe Nokia is OK with the attention, or accepts the loss. There is a saying, I don't know it in English, from a naked chicken you can't pluck.

First experience and first information is very important.

Yes, but you'd state the build version or complete version.

Rather, I'd put my bets on docking stations and monitors, and specialized devices. E-Book reader + 3G for reading. NAS + Sheevaplug for downloading. NAS + stereo for playing music. TV + NAS for recording video. Console for playing games. Camera + NAS for security system.

With Apple, such stuff only works the Apple way while other corporations put more effort supporting open standards and compatibility. While I think of it, I wonder why they even support TCP/IP. :eek::D

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Vodafone 360 sounds interesting, but I must say that I really hope it fails to compete with Ovi just because the last thing we need is a telco with even more power. Dark side of the force written all over it.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

allnameswereout
I dont said that i activate debug mode on my devices :) dont see any reason, I have to check how they work in normal modes

Did you run PowerTOP?
Think no, what's that?

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

I said business users and laptops. Hard core gaming irrelevant, and Bounce on s40 was good enough for casual use.

Not enough space? Right now you could theoretically have 32 GB internal + 32 GB SD card, and we're talking 5 years into the future! Look at how well netbooks are selling.

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

livefreeordie
i wont say that but at this moment OVI is failed, not completely but Nokia have to think about re-launch it in future

Ngage is dead again (second time)
OVI Share wont be develop strongly
A lot of development come to integrate Facebook, Twitter and some others non Nokia services. It means that own services are failed (again, not completely)

Vodafone 360 isnt a new service - Vodafone Music on market for several years and have strong customer base (Nokia Music isnt so strong), Navigation for Vodafone isnt bad etc.

I think operators will be a major on this field and Nokia have to think about it. For instance in case of Vodafone Nokia from now have to remove own services (OVI contacts, OVI store etc) from operator handsets and embbeded Vodafone services. The same story later will be for Orange, T-Mobile, O2 and others. So customer base for OVI will be shrinking (i mean potential customer base)

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

Yes, and I've touched on that in my own blogging and see it as viable in a few years. I think the N900 experience there will wind up more useful for providing feedback for further development than any current joy. ;)

Re: well respected reviewer "eldar" throwing caution to N900
 

livefreeordie
looks like chat :)

netbooks are dying, they are moved to normal notebooks segment (at least in terms of price). It was a good move to market but now game are changing again. The same story was on handset market before.

So netbooks take some market share, but wont be dominante power on it.

Corporate market is so small. You are kidding me. Story behind Eseries (first 2 year) wasnt successfull, the same for BB devices (they have sales only for 1 year - in volumes). From the point when they make more mass market devices...