Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I know my posts my get up the noses of some people here, but I really think Quim should step up to the plate and discuss or resolve this warranty situation - it's a great price but totally unfair to potentially lumber community members with a useless device after the first week.

The purpose of this programme is to seed positive support for the platform either through word of mouth, blogs or application development. All there will be is negative vibe when devices (and there will be several out of the 200-300 on offer) begin to fail after the first week and the owners are left high & dry by Nokia.

Offering these devices without a warranty to the very people whose support you most need is, frankly, mental.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with the non-warranty situation myself. I'll probably go through with it anyway, as the fault rate of these devices are probably low (from my experience with other Nokia devices, including the N800. There seemed to be more problems with the 770 though.)

The reason I'm getting myself the N900 through the DDP program is so that I can actually do some development on Maemo 5, as a minimum get those few packages I've ported or built before (e.g. lprng, rdate, remind, and a couple more) rebuilt and tested. I want to develop a new one that I would need myself. I don't want to spend 500 euro + VAT for this though, so I go with the DDP program. A warranty would have been nice, obviously.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I'm out. I wasn't planning to buy the N900 because

** I really want a minimum 4" screen
** I am happy with what my N800 can do
** I've spent a ton of time tweaking it to make it that way, none of which would easily transfer over to Maemo 5
** etc.

but the DDP program tempted me, and I was close to buying one. (Part of the motivation was just the pleasure of participating in this forum and the development of the platform.) (And, of course, all that tweaking was often fun.)

However, the lack of warranty just kills it for me.

** It makes it just not worth the money
** It leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

So I'm not getting one.

Frankly, if the forum and the software development continue to be as Maemo 5/N900-centric as it has become, as a mere N800-owner, I likely won't be around much anymore.

As I PM'd to bunanson a while ago, I'm tempted to start a new thread:

"Old Members Say Goodbye!"

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Indeed. I'd like to run a poll when the DDP expires and ask everybody who received an offer whether or not they decided to order a device and if not, why not. Personally, I'm leaning towards not taking "advantage" of it myself, and I know several other people who have decided not to as well or had it decided for them.

A program like this should not be generating negative feelings in those it's offered to, nor should a large percentage of people be turning it down due to both the flawed handling and the ridiculous terms of the discount.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I've been talking to several friends and people I work with over the past few weeks/months, and they're eagerly waiting to see what my N900 will be like but I really don't think I can afford to take a punt on a €250 device with no warranty so they may end up disappointed (just like me, in fact).

I'm awaiting clarification from DDP in terms of what we are supposed to do with those devices that develop a fault AFTER the initial 1 week period but the person I'm communicating with doesn't seem to be grasping my point and has so far repeated that "DDP will replace a faulty device" which could just mean "faulty within the first week (and then you're on your own)". Then again it could mean they will replace them at any time (though this seems unlikely) but it's ambiguous and requires clarification.

@TA-t3: The N810 seemed to be well put together however there has been the infamous WSOD on 770, not to mention the faulty rotating camera on early N800s (problem confirmed as a manufacturing fault AFTER well after the first week on sale!) and also faulty touchscreens on N800 (I had to have mine replaced under warranty). Given that there have been serious faults on 2 out of the 3 previous devices, what chance of a problem on the N900 (either in the design or manufacture)? Too likely that there will be a problem for me to risk throwing €250 down the toilet. :(

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

It's just a mess - I hate to say it, but that's what it has been, there's no getting away from it. I'm not complaining about the delays, just the lack of communication throughout the entire process - you can't even check the status of your order online. And now this warranty farce.

And I'm not even sure a 1 week warranty is actually legal in the UK - I'm pretty sure it isn't, although there may be an exception where a discount is applied.

I'd still like a N900, but will probably have to pick one up at full price (with a warranty) sometime next year unless something else catches my eye, and this will also shoot a hole in my plan to buy a successor device to the N900 in 2010. C'est la vie.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

This statement is incorrect. The correct statement is "Given that I am aware of some 770 and N800 units having problems...".

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Indeed, and it should also be noted that the N810 hasn't been fault-free. Many units are inclined to have their touchscreen cables come lose, leading to inaccurate and unreliable touchscreen input and sometimes apparently "dead" LCDs.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I wasn't eligible for the DDP. I would have taken up the offer, even with the warranty issue. I just want to develop my apps for the N900. Unfortunately, I can't quite afford the full price so it looks like I won't be getting one. :( (Are there any restrictions on those with DDP eligibility reselling those devices?)

Ignoring all the other "issues" that have been raised since this thread was created, if Nokia had mentioned right from the start in bold lettering that the warranty was limited, I don't think we'd be having this discussion.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Well yes of course it's SOME but if we are being pedantic then we are in fact both incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that ALL 770s have the design defect that can lead to a WSOD, although only SOME 770s have fallen victim to the fault (mine could at any time in the future).

Some N800s suffered from a camera fault during manufacture (fortunately not mine).

Some N800s suffered from lack of touchscreen sensitivity (unfortunately this included mine).

I'm not aware of any significant issues that affected the N810, but the General has pointed out some issues for me so the entire range of tablets has had one flaw or another that has affected devices to a larger or lesser extent.

The point is, however, that these are complicated devices and the N900 is possibly the most complicated device yet made by the mobile phone division of Nokia. Is it likely that the N900 will have faults just like any other phone/tablet? Absolutely, yes. Is it likely that all those faults will become apparent to the owner within the first week? Absolutely NOT!

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

this in my email

"Hi,

according to our bank records the order has come through successfully. The actual charge will be done at the time the device is actually shipped to you.

DDP team - please advise Vamsi on the expected shipment of the device and on the warranty matter, thanks.

BR,
Tuija
Forum Nokia Developer Programs"

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Thanks sachin007 (nice, we've got out own 007 to investigate for us :p)

What's this "please advise Vamsi on the expected shipment of the device and on the warranty matter, thanks." ?

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

hmmm, not entirely happy with the current warranty issue. I Should have bought one in the US last week when I was there, and I would have almost the same warranty as a device bought through the DDP... (no, I'm not willing to ship a broken unit all the way back to the US)

I'm seriously reconsidering my decision to go through the DDP: the thing that makes me remain "faithful" to the DDP is the fact that I would get a US keyboard instead of a localized one if I buy a device in Switzerland...

In any case, this looks like a bad move from Nokia, which I hope will get resolved in one way or in another. Furthermore a more clear communication from Nokia (or from Quim - but I understand that he has not much ties with the DDP) would have made everything easier for everybody...

oh well...

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Let me get this straight...

You're being offered what amounts to a several hundred dollar discount on a device. Yet, because it doesn't come with everything you want, you're being "screwed over"? Sounds more like a spoiled child than an abusive parent, personally.

The offer may not meet your needs/standards. That doesn't mean you're being screwed over. It means that the offer doesn't fit you. If the offer doesn't suit you, don't send them your money. No "screwing over" involved.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Ah! that may be the reason why my N810 is behaving weird.. I have to re-calibrate it once a day.

I'll see if I can look at it inside...

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Actually, it amounts to about an $110 discount when compared to Amazon. Not very good when you factor in the warranty.

It's frustrating and damaging to both Nokia and the community to have an offer like this which isn't suitable for many of the people receiving it. There's an argument to made for your position, sure, however resorting to personal insults is neither productive nor civil.

Everybody here wants one thing: a discount program which is easy to use and is effective in its goals (namely, encouraging continued contribution to the platform and its community). This program seems to be failing here.

With a well executed program you should have a very limited refusal rate, but when I can come up with a dozen names (out of a total program list of about 180) who I know wont (or can't) be taking advantage of their discount and only because they've said so in public and I've noticed their comments, then you know there's a problem.

This isn't about being a "spoiled child" as you so eloquently put it, it's about trying to fix the problems with this program so that future programs don't experience the same issues. :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

True, it is not "screwing over" anyone here.. but surely this is not the way to do it.

All of us are open source developers and do this for free.
Paying 250 euro for a device like the N900 is indeed a very good price, but 250 euro for a device like the N900 without a warranty, then it is not a good price.
It's a price for a device without a warranty.
It's not a discounted price.
And it does upset me, as free software developer.

The first devices were given for 99 euro with FULL warranty, and is not getting used to it, it's simply being fair to us.

I would pay 99 euro for a device without a warranty, but not 250 euro.
To me, it's a risk. And I am not willing to do take it. Even if I had'nt been given a loaned one.

Aniello

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I suppose the idea behind the one-week warranty is that developers are more likely to be messing around with the internals of the device compared to regular customers.

If the discount is good enough, the one-week warranty may save lots of arguments about whether a fault is Nokia's responsibility or whether a developer has voided the warranty (by soldering to the USB pins or making a "will it blend video" or whatever).

If I were eligible, I'd be buying a developers' device, notwithstanding the short warranty.

Regards,
Roger

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

This EUR/USD thing keeps fascinating me. On this side of the pond just the *discount* is roughly $530.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I am far from a lawyer, however:

I'm one of the few people that understands that an EU Directive is not a law. However, I believe Finland have ratified this directive.

Full directive.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Why?
Simply ignore all maemo5/n900 threads.
(I follow this thread, even if it's about the n900, because I've been offered the discound and, though I won't use it, I like to know how things are going, maybe I'm interested in the next device ;))

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Yes, that's one of the other issues that really bothers me.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

And many N810 were sold in unusable state due to faulty bootloader. I remember first month when I watched battery gauge to not get device power off because it was not granted that it will power on any of tries.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

And on some n800s the screen fails after about 1 year

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

In theory you can check status of order in "my orders" link in Pro nokia forum. But all what I see there is "Authorized" status from 10 November. They locked 250€ on my credit card then and all I got since then was silence.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

No, let me get this straight - you are prepared to pay €250 for a device which may turn into a paperweight after the first week?

If so, don't let me stop you. And feel free to use my slot on the DDP, but don't dare complain here afterwards should your generously discounted device develop a fault and you realise you would have got more benefit from placing your money into a small pile and setting light to it.

Please don't take offence, but you strike me as somewhat gullible if you think a saving of just over two hundred Euro on an €450 device is worth the risk of only one week of usage.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Don't forget that there are many 'regular customers' that got the invitation to buy via the DDP. I am one of them. I probably won't buy one through this program since I have one of the loaners from the Summit. I'll see when the loaner program expires if I still want one. There are many factors weighing in my decision, and the actual device is not one of them. I love it. Other factors like the warranty, the cost relative to buying it from a retailer, our sad state of HSPA in Canada, etc.

FYI - my charger for the N900 has not worked since coming back from Amsterdam - less than one week of use and it was toast. Without a warranty on a DDP device, I am afraid that my 250 Euros or $400 CAD will be down the drain.

And do not get me wrong - I am grateful that Nokia has extended the offer to me, and am very grateful for the loaner N900. This DDP program just does not fit all people's situations, and that is also understandable.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Hey, can I be your friend? ;)

Seriously, if anyone doesn't want to take advantage of the DDP, please contact me. I will take the offer. :D

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

There is a VAST gulf between "we're being screwed over" and "this program seems to be failing us". The latter is a problem, stated maturely and effectively. The former is, as I characterized it before, "acting like a spoiled child".[/QUOTE]

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Add me to that list too. :)

Sorry for wandering off topic.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Speaking about warranty... Did someone checked does N900 camera was fixed or same as N97 one (which was scratching camera lens)?

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Aha thanks, found the "My Orders" link within "My Account"! :)

My order is also "Authorized" (order placed 9 Nov) but nothing has been debited from my credit card. My order also has a priority of "Critical", presumably this means "quite high"! :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Perhaps "screwed over" is being melodramatic, but ultimately that is what this amounts to, either from negligence or intention on the part of whoever set up this program (I'm guessing the former). If you are one of the unfortunate people who wind up with a faulty device it will be hard to feel anything other than "screwed over" when Nokia subsequently deny all responsibility for your brand new €250 paperweight.

Anyone offering a device with only a 1 week warranty in the full knowledge that - for many people - it will be their single, primary device (either for development, testing or whatever) is being disingenuous with the truth (again, this is no doubt due to unintentional oversight or being unaware that the warranty was non-existent).

The DDP was chosen as an alternative to the Nokia Store to simplify the process, however there was never any mention that in order to achieve this simplified process the end user would be left at so much risk. That is unacceptable, and I can't believe it was known by those who decided on this process.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

End to end, the whole process has been obnoxious. They really should've put a bit of time into considering who they were selling these discounted devices to. Having a required company field in the initial registration form was just the beginning of the fun.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I'm not part of the program, but I wholeheartedly agree that Nokia should fix this. Without a warranty, this program does not fulfill its intended purpose.

For my own selfish reasons, I would love to get anyone's slot in the DDP who chooses not to take advantage of it.

However, in the community spirit, let me share my "solution" and the reason why I am so willing to jump in and take someone's slot. (If this will work for me, maybe it will work for you too.)

If I can purchase an N900 via the DDP without a warranty, I will purchase a 3 year Square Trade warranty (with a coverage limit of $400) for $39.99 (Amazon.com) -- or even less with a coupon. And hopefully, I could also purchase via the DDP with my credit card, which may give me additional warranty coverage. So I will still come out with a great price and good warranty coverage.

I do not know if this option is available to people outside the US, however.

I hope Nokia fixes this program for all you guys who deserve this benefit! If I were in charge of the program, I'd give all developers (with sufficient track record) an N900 for free. (I'd also give key evangelists and other significant contributors a great deal too.)

If that doesn't happen, maybe some of you can take advantage of my idea for a 3rd party warranty.

And anyone who still doesn't want to use the DDP, please do allow me to take your slot! :D
If I get more than one taker, I'll consider equipping my whole family with N900's :D

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

There wouldn't be many threads left. The pre-Maemo 5 devices and operating systems are effectively left for dead now. Nothing new is happening there, except for Mer. I had the option of going for the DDP program so that I could write code and work with applications and user issues for Maemo 5 [I wouldn't pay ~ 600 euro inc. VAT just for that privilege], or leave the community. I would probably write some stuff for my N800, for myself only. There would be nothing left for me here, in this community. It was a close call but I did order through DDP in the end, even though it could end with me down 250E for a failed device.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I realize you're playing Devil's advocate here, but I'm surprised to read this from you. A one week warranty for the people that champion these devices? It's f*cking insulting. Give me a f*ckin' break. How much soldering has gone on? Do you know that there are a*shats that have returned their iPhones some 14 times for any reason they can think of. They've gotten replacements with almost no questions asked. Nokia expects their main community to fill in gaps and this is the trusting support they show? Do they not have mirrors in Finland?

It would cost them nothing to do the right thing. I love their new ads, but their PR guy(s)/gal(s) need to be virtually hung, drawn and quartered. I've got rope.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

It's "hanged" when it comes to people, not "hung", I think.. :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

A little off topic, but we both might be correct. Here's some text from this link.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Right, but you used it in the context of drowned and quartered, which was an old sentence-to-death used for traitors and coiners and other enemies of the crown. Now, this _is_ off-topic, and in any case I wouldn't want to go that far with the 'them' we're discussing! :D