Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

This was also confirmed by Quim 10 pages ago:

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=493

This has become quite a bad deal, unfortunately...I will take the chance with the DDP device, but I'm not entirely comfortable with all of this...(maybe I will get lucky and not end up with a paperweight?)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Earlier in this thread, Quim (qgil) also said that should a purchaser through this program have a post-first-week problem with the device due to a defect, he will try to make things right.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Are you sure - can you provide a reference for that comment?

The last comment from Quim on the subject (quoted below) toes the DDP line - they will "do their best" to replace your device if it is found to be defective upon receipt. The implication is that there is nothing Nokia or Maemo can or will do to help you should your €250 purchase develop a fault after 7 days.

I'm also a little uncomfortable that the commitment to replace devices within the first week has now been downgraded from "will replace" to "will do our best to replace", hopefully this is just due to a poorly worded sentence on Quims part.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Yes, that's the comment I have in mind. I take it as a statement of goodwill that if your device fails due to an inherent defect (e.g., not because you poured your coffee on it), Quim will do what he can to get you a replacement. It's not a legal guarantee, but Quim would like us to be happy, there aren't that many of us eligible for the program, there ought to be much fewer of us receiving defective units, and he'll do what he can to get our defective units replaced if the defect should manifest itself within a reasonable period of time, which I figure is about one year in light of the standard warranty.

Am I extrapolating? You bet. But at least that's what I interpret Quim's offer to mean.

Does it apply only to the first week after receipt of the unit? No, his offer has to apply to more time than that since it would be pointless otherwise.

Is Quim's vague offer/promise legally enforceable? Possibly not, but I trust his intention here, and I believe Nokia would want to back him up; and, in practice, that's more important than a legally enforceable guarantee.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

OK, then it's ambiguous at best.

The way I read it, I took it to mean that if a device arrived faulty from the factory it would be replaced, but since Quim doesn't go on to say what would happen to those devices that subsequently develop a fault after one week - and because I don't think Quim would want to leave us in the lurch - I'm willing to believe it is just a poorly worded sentence and I can accept your interpretation.

A rewording from Quim would put my mind to rest though. :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I just could not wait anymore. i went ahead and ordered from nokia usa. got the phone. Will keep it for 14 days and return it. Hoping the developer device ships by then

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Winter frost is here
Hibernate or keep awake?
DHL could call

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

eager hyena
cavorting bats moaning small
catapult frowning

And now please STOP :) and let's all go back to bashing the DDP's delay, and delay, and delay, and delay.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

and lack of warranty, lack of, lack...

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Quim will try to help whoever got his device discounted through DDP and finds himself having issue with the device itself.

That's enough for me and I will then probably buy it.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Oh give me a break!
If the device is DOA or shows issues during the first week then OF COURSE DDP will substitute it to you.
If the device has a "factory" issue that appears after the first week then Quim will do his best to help.

How can you read differently?

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Yeah, I understand how that can be worrying. Personally, I'm not terribly bothered by it. Quim's always *always* done everything possible to make things right, going above and beyond the call of duty many times before...

I know that doesn't exactly help anyone when they're paying a still sizable amount for a device though.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Calm down, fella.

Read Quims quote - it's ambiguous. If the device "comes with a defect from the factory that lets your device unusable, we will do our best to get you a replacement.". Great, so what if it develops a fault after the first week, ie. it doesn't arrive from the factory with an issue but an issue occurs shortly afterwards - what then? For example, a ribbon cable slips off, or the screen dies or it gets stuck in a reboot loop? Just the kind of problems that HAVE occurred with previous devices through no fault of the user, and are circumstances NOT covered by Quims comment, so what then? I know Quim is a decent chap and I'm pretty sure he'll do what he can to help but I often feel the rest of Nokia conspire against him at times so he may not always come through despite his best intentions, and his comment - based on his words alone and not reading what I would like to read between the lines - is actually not at all different from the basic DDP warranty. Anything else you believe he is saying is based on assumptions, and you might be right - or you might be wrong.

So please, you give me a break, don't go putting words into the mouths of others - I'd rather hear it from Quim, thanks. Call me a pedant, but I don't like ambiguity when money is involved. :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I am calm :) sorry if it looked differently.
It's just that this is common sense/

The issue so far has been that there is no warranty outside the "first week" from DDP.

Quim intervened saying that yes we'll try to help you if the defect comes from the factory. I.E. it's our fault and not yours.
And it was clear he wrote that to calm us down and make us confident in this programme.
Not to make things worse saying that we'll see if we can EVEN change the device in the first faulty week.

There are several faults that come from the factory that develops after weeks. For example a batch of N800 developed a faulty rotating camera often after more than a week and in that case they'll help you getting a working one as clearly that defect "comes from the factory" and not because of a misuse.

And you are reading "comes from the factory" as "come ALREADY DEAD (DOA) from the factory". While this is NOT the case to me and, to me, this is quite clear.

I shouted because "we" (i.e. not just you and i.e. that shout was not intended to offend you) are pinpointing here every single word that Quim states. He's not a PR guy and tries to be as clear as possible and I think he was quite clear.
He wrote that in order to help us not to make things worse.

And I don't want to play the game "you are putting words in someone else mouth" as we're grown up enough to be able to skip it.

Aniello

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

One thing that might be noted... at least in the case of this release, is that the people most likely to help in calming the masses, settling the nerves of the throng that have descended upon this forum if you will, are in here waiting.

In the future, this approach may have to be rethought. To borrow another members analogy, I'm afraid the lone 300 "Spartans" who received their units at the summit and are valiantly defending Maemo's virtues may not get the reinforcements they need in time. :eek:

In another random observation perhaps the size and weight of the N900 has attracted a higher than normal percentage of "football hooligans" who see it as their weapon of choice inside a stadium or Pub. :p

In any event, it's getting crazy out there. :( :confused:

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

That quote is ambiguous.

Quim's reputation is not.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

The trouble is, it's not clear, far from it. The language is couched in potentially restrictive terms - why mention "comes with a defect from the factory" at all, that's restrictive and/or confusing and potentially eliminates faults that develop through normal usage. Duff pixels? Nope. Ribbon cable? Nope. A whole host of problems could arise that won't be covered, so no help from Quim - is this what Quim is saying? Or is he saying that look, we'll just do our best on an individual basis OK, but we can't make any promises? The latter is very different to the former, and one I'd be happy with simply because it will be on a best efforts basis without specifics rather than only offering to fix problems that occur relatively soon after delivery (ie. "from the factory", his words not mine). I know Quim is a decent bloke and will want to bend over backwards to help, but it's not always certain he'll be able to do so - he doesn't run Nokia (sadly).

While we can read between the lines and incorrectly assume Quim will try to fix problems he hasn't explicitly commited to, you could find yourself disappointed when your device breaks through normal usage but not because of a problem that it had "from the factory" (whatever that means).

I'm not taking issue with Quim directly, but I think you are potentially committing him to something he hasn't said, or at least not said directly.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

It certainly is my weapon of choice. ;) :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Nice... can I use that on other fora pretty please? :)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

"look, we'll just do our best on an individual basis, but we can't make any promises"

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I guess non of you guys here, did already recieve his device :) ?

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

As a collateral effect of the lack of a n900 device, I am playing again with my E90, which I had almost abandoned in order to "kick the habit" when I thought that all my day-to-day computing task were to converge on maemo5.
Well, honestly I haveto recognize that the E90 is a great keyboard-based device, and symbian has really all the apps you need to be productive, and then some more.
So, I'll miss it (I hope I start missing it as soon as possible) :) .

Disclaimer: this post isn't more off-topic than 80% of those above ;)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

With respect to the 1-week warranty issue (ignoring for the moment Quim's comments), this post from zerojay is pretty relevant:

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

This from my email after i had asked for the status:

"Hi

we understand your concern, but we are hoping to receive the N900 by next week.
we are very sorry for causing´you this much trouble.

I hope you understand, we will let you know the soonest.

Sorry and have a nice day!

br,
Joan"

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

next week.... mmmhhh it sounds so good
(fingers crossed)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Hmm... if this goes on, "next week" will soon be the same as "next year" :-)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

It is always 'next week'

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

They're going to ship those n900 at the same time as the opengl es drivers for the n8x0, and they'll throw in duke nukem forever for free.


(don't kill me, just kidding).

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Maybe on 12/9th like in UK? Oh my! I'm down:(

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Cheer up, it's only Monday. Let's see how you feel on Friday :-)

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I really hope they ship this week.... if not i will have to go phoneless!

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Haven't you said it the last week? And the week before the last? And the week before...

This is starting to look like a weird cargo cult.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

Hush. You'll anger the gods with your blasphemy.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I just carved my own N900 out of a block of wood. Never having seen the original, I can only assume it works as well.

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

I take solace in nurturing my N1610 (N800+N810).

In another week I might be tempted to add the 770, but as it doesn't have the "N", I'm not sure the math works out...

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

sigh... bugday is coming... and me without my N900...sigh..

http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/2009...1800-0300-utc/

Re: N900 device program for maemo.org developers and contributors
 

So I take it you missed Quim's post?