Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I am very aware that this site is driven by a lot of smart OS and some hardware techies, but the N900 is going to usher in a lot of newbies that do not have the same level of "techness".

I suggest a sticky thread for newbies (N900 for Newbies) that has an FAQ and links for apps (I know they are repositories, but still..) and includes:

1. Any settings techies expect newbies will ask
2. FM radio receiver link (this will be asked a lot)
3. Things for newbies to avoid (perhaps first thing in list)
4. Techie addresses to send beer for appreciation for getting newbies out of trouble with N900.
5. Restore process for when newbies get in trouble
6. Game links and FAQ (Doom, Quake etc and emulators will be popular questions).

A key is to be nice to newbies, since you never know who they are or what they may be able to do to help in the future. Communities like this need newbies too..... don't you :confused: :(

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Great idea, I think it will be critical to understand that we had distinctly different users of this site. This is not a bad thing. We just need to ensure that we accommodate both, the functional types (like me) with the technical types.

I think there should be some white-paper like posts that talk about the value of ______ like root, or ssh, or plugins vs apps

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Good points all. The community has not been idle, I think.

There's a sticky thread at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...highlight=user

Also there's http://wiki.maemo.org/New_users which you can always add to/edit to make it include what is sensible.

And there are quite a few threads around and about that come to this from different directions. Which is perhaps indicative of a small problem if there's lots of threads and a non-easy way to find them. Most importantly, the 'New User' link of front page to that wiki page is not up front enough. If it was more visible it would not get in the way of those who know their way around, but it might help a newbie.

Your point about being nice is key, there are sometimes difficulties in the fora on that score. Sometimes it's impatience because 'you should have searched' (which is true but the signal-noise ratio is a little intimidating) and sometimes it's plain ignorance, with all shades inbetween. Can be off-putting. Should be less so.

Another thread suggested the concept of 'greeter' which might not be a bad idea - if a newbie posts something obvious, instead of 'blasting' them, perhaps pushing their post to an assigned greeter might be an option? This person would then help in a kindly fashion and get karma, perhaps... Properly managed (centrally?) this could be done without overloading the greeters, I hope.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Well this might be a bit of an overkill but we have talk.maemo.org, how about faq.maemo.org with less updates ? Might help with the signal to noise ratio too though this might need a fair amount of maintenance?

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I can't remember when I registered, but there might be a way to automatically forward a newly registered person to a specific page (?) which might be the New User page...

I would be happy to volunteer and put time in helping to maintain new user/faq.whatever...

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Great ideas, but highlights the navigation issues with the site??
I have been on here for a week or two now, and this was the first I had heard of the noobs thread...
Im glad I know now once my phone comes through, Im sure I will have lots of questions..

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Those things are completely useless, we all know that newbies won't read them in the first place. :D

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

'Greeter' Brainstorm idea: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32835

vote and comment!

smarsh, can you add your 'bounce' idea as a solution?

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

As long as the solution considers the N900 is the device that will cause a flood of new people to the community, it should flow logically. I hope ;)

For this site's sake, the delay may really be a blessing in disguise ;)

OK, not really :(

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

that's not true!
the problem is, that the noobs who actually read the faq
don't stand out, so you think all the noobs didn't read it.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Kinda true. Also, if (more like when) the forums become really popular and crowded, even the best-intended newbies will be lost under the 100's of results they get for a particular search and might end up re-posting anyway.
Of course, a FAQ is never a bad idea, but i have a more radical idea: something in the style of yahoo answers. The newb comes, asks, someone answers, newb is satisfied, thread is closed, helper gets karma. This way pretty much everyone is satisfied: newbs get detailed help (instead of 'search the forum for ____", get "here's the link to ___"), active helpers get karma, community is helpful (which matters a lot when buying into anything with a 'net community). It may be a good idea to remove threads that are duplicates, to clear up clutter
It would probably need some tinkering with the site, to accommodate for users being able to close their question threads, thus automagically also giving thanks/karma to helper. But i think i would work well. And maybe a brainstorm would be more helpful

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

My brainstorm solution is pretty much this, see: http://maemo.org/community/brainstor...ter_on_posting

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

How about starting a site that doesn't cater to developers and their associates but to regular users? It could be called... InternetTabletTalk!

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Hmm, it's still the way I get to t.m.o actually. But I believe it's not the solution - the solution has to be a one stop shop with intelligent, sympathetic guidance. This fits with m.o's aspirations to be #1 maemo site, and I support that.

But, I'll agree with the implicit comment that the initial impressions of anything in maemo.org are developer-oriented. That's not such a bad thing if we can route/intercept sensibly.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Yes, but.

You will soon have three distinct classes of users, not two. For high end functional types, reading white papers from technical types on topics like root or ssh is fine. But for average functional types, you will be dealing with people who don't understand what root is, have never heard of ssh, and don't care (at the moment). They will want to know how to make their new phone work with what is already installed and how to install and use apps which are in the app store.

New users probably need a separate forum and a separate wiki with a separate search that restricts its results to that forum and that wiki. I would suggest that a tab be added at the top for New Users and this pull up a page with the New User wiki and New User forum with an explanation that they should look at the wiki first and then ask unanswered questions in the forum. As questions are asked and answered in the forum, they should be added to the wiki.

This is not to say that new users will or should be restricted. Advanced users will jailbreak out of the new user area to access the panoply of maemo.org resources. But for someone coming to the site for the first time, it needs to be easier to find first timer resources.

As an example, if I wanted to use the new user section of the wiki, how would I possibly know to click on Community, then on Use the Wiki, then on New Users? It doesn't help that the Community page shows recent updates to the Wiki, the second one (at the moment) being Qt4Hildon-TODO. If a new user reads the Community page before clicking through to the wiki they will have the distinct impression that they wandered into the programmer's area they will not make it to the wiki (and I speak from personal experience).

Similarly, if the new user tries to search using the top search box for something like, "FM radio receiver" (to pick what will be a major new user question) you get three pages of results. At the moment, there is a relatively useful post "N900 and FMradio" but it starts with incorrect advice (the original poster confused the transmitter and receiver) and contains references to n900-fmrx-enabler and dmesg. For an advanced user, this is fine. For a new user, they should only see a post or wiki page that says "it's not available yet but it's being worked on."

IMHO, I would resurrect the InternetTabletSchool concept with an N900 flavor. But if you want to keep everything in one place, I would emphasize top level access and better organization of the new user information. I would also separate it as much as possible from developer/advanced user information.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I'm not sure that wikis and faqs are the place to start. The scenario I see is this:

Joe has a problem or question with his (her?) n900.
Joes types a few related words into a search engine.
Search engine directs Joe to a thread on this forum.

That's how I got here, and I think it's how most newbies will get here. If Joe is well accustomed to bulletin boards he might do a search for a relevent thread. He's more likely to post in the thread he lands up in, or open a new thread. Regardless of relevence, or how many threads on that subject already exist. (Resistive v Capacitive? Shipping date?... )

The problem is that highly technical poeple have highly tidy minds, and are likely to make some comment about using the FAQ, search engine or wiki. Joe wants a person to answer his problem, not a wiki.

I really like the idea of a sticky - or even a small subforum (of n900? vBulletin does subfora!) for newbies. I also like the idea of having a few folk who are not techie types to keep the patience and keep signposting poor lost Joes to the information they need.

That doesn't need to be people who're highly skilled: it can be those of us who've got a fairly basic grasp - and know who to ask for something complicated!

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I agree with RevdKathy here..
I found these forums via googling n900 and just jumped straight in to the n900 forum. It was a week before I visited the homepage, and it didn't seem to be that relevant to what I was looking for.
The majority of new users are going to be searching around n900, so will miss alot of the other information on this site, you really do need an enlarged n900 section to keep everyone in the right place.
I only found out about the wiki from another posting in the forum, there seems to be a fair amount of information, but it is in so many different places..

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

There is a slight practicality issue at the moment. Only the "Developers" and favoured power users have the N900 and so if noobs were pushed into a noob forum, there would be no one that can answer the questions.

The Wiki needs to be at the top of the site, and once users get their hands on some devices it will start to get populated. Most developers are too busy to write down end user type guides.

Mike C

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

There are already many good places to post "startup" information for newbies, however they still are VERY basic, are not inviting at all and lack content. The three most prominent examples:

• The INTRO (Top level horizontal menu, first item on the left)
• The Talk FAQ (Top right navigation menu in this forum)
• The Wiki is not directly visible, but hidden under Community

OTOH, I like what is going on in http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Basics
I also tried to update the wiki main page and help to be more supportive.

Let's not spend too much time discussing containers, but let's write content for the existing points of contact first...

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Actually, Mike, I think a lot of the questions starting to appear are so basic that even I could answer them, if I had the confidence. True, I can recite the technical specs in my sleep... I'm quite surprised at the frequency I'm answering things like "Is there an office app" (for example) on twitter. Certainly there will be questions for which a fair amount of techical knowledge is needed. But they aren't really the problem questions.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Please, don't shy away from answering questions if you think you have an answer. You've already proven yourself an asset to the community, and new users will benefit greatly from your help.

If you're worried about giving an incorrect answer, please try to not be concerned about that. Everyone who participates here has accidentally, and with the best of intentions, given some bogus information one point or another. When that happens, someone else usually catches it quickly and helps steer the thread back on track. In my experience, this generally happens without any belittling of the person who made the mistake. Worst case is usually some friendly ribbing.

As a general note, not directed specifically at everyone's favorite stuffed bear, I hope everyone here can work past the habit of thinking "They really need to fix..." and begin thinking how to help make that needed change happen. As soon as you begin using any part of maemo.org, congratulations, you've become part of the community. Please don't hesitate to beat a wiki page into shape, tag threads, rate downloads, file bugs, brainstorm, or be the start of a Newbie Helpers Organization. Contribute whatever skills and time you have available, and we'll all benefit. Thanks.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I agree.

When the device is out, we'll (hopefully) have one and be able to answer about that too.

At the very least, we may know *where* to look, even if we don't know the answer.

I'd like to suggest we can get this started and get together a list of potential people willing to help. I'm in.

One thing we could potentially do is put a list of these people up someplace (but non-spammable)? Just thinking out loud...

BTW Kathy, I'm not sure I qualify as techie, but tidy, I most certainly amn't! :o I do like to think I can bridge worlds though. Made a career out of trying to think that way, anyway.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

As I've said elsewhere, I agree with RevdKathy that most people will come here because they looked for an answer on Google and these forums came up on the top of their list.

For instance, if you wanted to know how to use SSH on your new N900, you'd go to google and type "ssh N900" and your first hit would be talk.maemo.org. In fact, there are so many hits here that Google groups the hits from t.m.o as a bunch, with a "more results from talk.maemo.org >>" link.

At the top left of every page is an "intro" button, and Quim Gil is going to be focusing on this page in the November sprint. I think that button is the single most important button for "newbies" because it will be there every time when they click through from Google to get an answer.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Okay, so how's this for a start: http://wiki.maemo.org/New_users

Time to start editing and ribbing and generally feeling happy about helping others!

Steve

PS I don't want to mess with the front page right now (I'm shy :rolleyes: ), but really think we should promote the New Users link more...

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Being a N810 user, I was able to contribute some to the Maemo Basics page but I hope that somebody starts filling up the N900 section.

I would suggest that one major section of the N900 entry (or even a section on the front page) should be N900 software. This should be divided into three sections: what the N900 can do out of the box (ideally this will be a series of links to Nokia documentation pages); what additional software is available for the N900 in the app store (here the documentation starts to get a bit spotty); and what is not yet available but is being worked on. For people who have gotten past the first steps with the phone, I suspect those are the questions they are going to want answered.

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

I've done wikis, but not this one... So:

Is it possible to have a text box to allow a newbie to type in their burning question without registering, and on submitting getting a 'ticket' and/or having it posted to a sticky thread that they can see but not edit (perhaps moderated too before posting) and then have a 'greeter' or whomever answer the question in that thread?

I ask because we could put that kind of box on the New Users page, or perhaps a link to a 'burning question' page which

1. showed faq
2. showed how to register on t.m.o
3. showed how to search
4. gave the box to fill out to generate a question 'ticket'

Just wondering if that sounds like a good idea or not?

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Please admit you are all actually motivated by:

"4. Techie addresses to send beer for appreciation for getting newbies out of trouble with N900."

The mighty power of beer! ;)

Six smiles for a six pack :):):):):):)

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Good post... totally agree

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Another equally good post

Re: Proactive effort to keep newbies at bay with N900
 

Righto, so who wants to be a member of the Newbie Helpers Organization? PM away...