Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Having faithfully paid the 50 euros to register with Ovi Publishers several days ago, I have been happily working on my upcoming application, preparing for the release of the new N900 store which I was assured is in the last stages of finalization.

I have spent many years in Canada operating doing very legitimate and legal development as a sole proprietor, as long as one pays taxes, there is no necessity to incorporate as a company, as this is recognized as an important element of trade (not everyone who does business can or will incorporate).


Today my Nokia Store / Ovi Publisher account was disabled and locked out, because I am not a corporation.

Nokia does not recognize individuals or sole proprietorship as valid business entities, and as such only corporations may publish through the Ovi store. Needless to say, as a legitimate businessman, I feel incredibly let down by Nokia, and the Ovi policies. These policies are going to prevent 95% of application developers from publishing through nokia, leaving only the choice of giving our work away for free (which is fine if you're into that), or trying to establish an independent distribution channel which is going to be incredibly difficult.

Nokia should ensure that they either recognise sole proprietorships as legitimate business entities, or make it very clear - and i mean 72px font clear, that they do not allow individuals to publish through the store.

I moved over from Apple because of their policies and increasingly corporation-centric publishing rules. I'm really sad to say that it looks like I made a mistake, and without a distribution channel, Nokia has left me, and many other future application developers high and dry.



I know I'm feeling emotional, but right now I just feel like forgetting I ever heard about the N900. This sucks :(

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Uh. I think this really needs sorting out. It doesn't sound right at all...

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Yeah, that was discussed recently, and some of us have been wracking our brains for an easy solution...

My idea is to form a loose consortium if that will work. In fact I started the LinkedIn group maemo daemons with that as part of the rationale. I have not yet dug any deeper, but if anyone has I hope they chime in!

EDIUT: code177, it might help if you could forward me the email you received, if you like.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

You can't even register in the UK if you don't have a VAT reg number, and to get one you need to have a yearly turn over of £67,000. :rolleyes:

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Make sure to also add your complaint to the maemo.developers list.
This is ridicilous from Nokia. I hope it's a misunderstanding.
Quim? :-)

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Surely the bar to entry needs to be lower than any formal business, or consortium? The world is absolutely full of sole traders and partnerships and the like. Can Maemo really afford to turn any of them away at this stage of the game?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

While only generally applicable in the U.S (AFAIK)....forming an S-Corp or LLC as an individual is pretty easy and cheap. If you are doing a lot of independent contracting and such, it's a good idea anyway to protect yourself (and your personal assets) from liability should a business relationship turn sour and litigious.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Yeah, I'm afraid the revenue issue is going to be the big sticking point. But I feel this is a battle worth fighting and will do what little is in my power to try to change policy.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

From my reading here http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/fo...d.php?t=185445 it seems they might be accepting smaller businesses next year. There's also an email address you can contact about getting a refund.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I agree to an extent, and don't take "consortium" to mean corporation-- at least, not the way I'm envisioning it. In my opinion even not-for-profit organizations or perhaps even developer clubs should be able to join the Ovi store.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Right, OK. It's good to hear we're on the same page :)

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Tomorrow there will be a lecture in Copenhagen:
Publishing your applications through Ovi Store, Jan Bonnevier, Ovi Marketing Communications Manager, Nokia

I will ask and post if anything new/interesting is said regarding this issue.

[edit] if you have any specific questions that can be asked during such a meeting, please feel free to post them here. I will try to ask them, as it may be a good opportunity to hear something from horse's mouth.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

If anyone has expertise with user groups, especially global organizations, I could use your assistance: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5850&page=5

Maybe this is one way to change policy...

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

This conversation has now been shared out to the maemo developers and general community mailing lists.

EDIT: oops, I got rejected by the maemo developer's list... :o

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Incorrect. Just about anybody (even individuals) can register for VAT. It becomes compulsory once your turnover reaches £68k.

See here.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

That's a bit encouraging-- thanks xmob.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I hope Quim will notice this thread.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I see! It certainly makes for sense your way ;)

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I will try to catch Quim in the Meantime (he will be talking about Publishing your software through Maemo).

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

He noticed the last time the subject came up... but I have not yet found that thread...

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I think you're looking for this one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33519

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I think nokia started with the wrong foot. This way it will not attract developers to OVI for sure. I don’t see any commitment to open source in this approach. Nokia need to change this immediately. They are using the work of many developers for free in the OVI store, but if you want to sell your program they don’t let you. That’s insane. They don’t get that this is bad for them?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

It's obvious by now, based on the amount of debate we've had with no resolution yet, that this isn't as simple a subject as some would have it....

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Can't we create a sort of front enterprise through which everyone could publish their stuff? Any individual developer could become an independent contractor for this organization and publish their apps through that. Maemo Independent Developers, hehe

Is this reasonable? We could even petition Nokia for some logistic support, in case this consumes too much time... Maybe the maemo council could sponsor this?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Nokia has the hallmarks of an organisation at war with itself. It's obvious there are different groups trying to pull the company in different directions so what we get from them is a compromise of different interests.

Motorola were the same about 5 years ago. As you can see it didn't go to well for them.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

It's a good idea, in principal. But, it's fraught with problems. The first one being accountability. Can you imagine the fallout if somebody managed to release an app with malicious elements?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Right. As I said I *started* down that path but treading carefully. It may well be this is too big for me to take on, but I at least want to explore the possibility... especially if it turns out more people get engaged.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I'm no developer only a consumer. I can see the point about VAT registration being important to the store, but why Nokia wouldn't allow individuals with appropriate VAT registration to sell their stuff through the OVI store is unclear to me. Anyone understand their rationale?

In my mind I believe Nokia is going to need every single developer they can get a hold of if they are going compete with Android, Apple, and even WinMo. Basically the phone/unit is just a channel for consuming software, apps, movies etc, why restrict this as long as the software is well developed?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Just a guess: liability.

I am interested to see how this turns out.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

With this way of thinking it’s better to close the doors. Beside that look at what nokia has attracted to their OVI store with is current policy. I have a Nokia 5800 and half of the application available are full of malicious elements. It’s really impossible to use. The only company that has good stuff is offscreen which I really suspect that it’s nokia itself pretending to be an independent company.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Nokia should trust in people that give so much work to open source for free.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Surely nokia could create a subsidy company - take 5% profits, host it on maemo.org? that way they are getting the revenue to boost their own products? - dare i mention companies like Apple and Microsoft would loose money to make money (Advertising, name etc...)

But working under one publishing house name hosted by nokia should work, and they would have more then enough experience to set it up......

But getting through to someone who can listen is the tough part!

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Half the apps are malicious? Wow, I had no idea. Why would people do that? Do they work for the competition, or what?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

If that's even remotely accurate, it's another good argument for encouraging open source development.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

Which still is completely wrong. While I am all for going the open source route (hey, good thing I'm no developer :p), normal people should have the possibility to try to sell applications through the ovi store, "even though" those only have been developed in the developer's spare time.

Closing people like this out is foolish, only allowing companies on there even more so - why should corporate built apps be better than apps from freelance developers?

Nokia: This has to be changed.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

well, if they are blocking you out, maybe it is because you will aactually respond to the issues.

i have purchase a handfull of apps there and then when i needed to clean boot my e90, i went to reinstall the apps and it forces me to re-purchase the apps all overagain!

not to mention the 2 apps that said they were compatible with the e90, but didnt work and then NEVER responded to a a request for a refund becuase it would not work on my handset.

i still go to the developers sites to get apps directly or through my-symbian/handango/etc.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

I've just reread this thread, and I've realised that I may be coming across as overly negative. That's not my intention. Sorry.

Anyway. Is the VAT requirement maybe because of the way sales are handled (accounting wise) in Ovi? I haven't really looked into this in great detail.

I can see a few ways forward with this issue:

• A developer consortium
• An alternative to Ovi
• Persuading someone at Nokia to change things

Each has it's pros and cons. At this stage, I can see a consortium being the most likely option. It would take lots of work, but it is doable. I remember something similar happening when the Orange SPV (WinMo phone) was first launched.

An alternative to Ovi is possible, Cydia has proved this. Again, lots of work.

Maybe the maemo community (that's all of us) could lobby Nokia to change things. If they can't, maybe they could at least explain why not.

I think the one thing we're all agreed on, is that Nokia are missing out on some great applications (revenue earners) here. The open SDKs combined with the raw "bedroom" talent out there will lead to some fantastic software products. But ONLY if developers can see some likely return on their efforts. A certain Fruit Based rival product has proved that.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

That's something that Nokia has to react upon pretty damn fast. Maemo community is beautiful because is done by individuals and if they have this approach to the Ovi Store they are going to screw themself pretty hard.

Ovi Store policy was indeed unapproachable for me as well: I work for an organization indeed, but what if I want to develop and publish stuff by myself?

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

This is really true. Go to the free games on OVI and read the comments from the users. I stop downloading software unless I know the company. Before you can start paying the game they ask to enter the net and than that suck huge amount of data. It’s impossible to stop. Once I had to take the battery. And this is done by big companies (I don’t see the propose but they should have one for sure). I guess that you don’t find this in maemo and it’s made by simple people (no big companies).
Nokia should definitely change this. For their sake.

Re: Left high-and-dry by Nokia/Ovi store :(
 

What I'm *hoping* can happen is that if there remains a requirement for an official business entity, developers could form an association that fits the requirement-- yet each operate completely independently, with the association managing overhead. Keep in mind there would still be costs involved, but *perhaps* this sort of approach can spread them out farther and thinner.