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Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 385910)

Err no. I understood the first part of that (I think) but then you lost me.

The problem is I speak a range of 'elite' languages - medical, mental health, church (in several variants) theology (again several variants) and sci-fi. But I don't speak OSS. So there's lots of terms being used I simply don't understand. It feels like I'm working in a foreign language which I never got beyond 'o' level.

What exactly do you mean by "Breaking design guidelines for user interface would be considered a bug as there is an expected behaviour being deviated from."

My best guess you mean is that it isn't doing what I expect because I expect to understand it (at which point we're going in circles).

The problem is reproduceable in that I have a mild panic every time I look at the Bugzilla page. ;)

As for brainstorm... I cam start a thread in the brainstorm forum, but if you want me to do more than that... well, I'm back to the same problem.

Sorry Kathy - got so used to you posting solutions on forum and contributing at a high level I forgot you're not up on the lingo yet: my short coming!

I was trying to say that if there is a definate behaviour that should be working but doesn't work as expected then it is a potential bug. For a bug report it is important that you explain how the problem can be reproduced so clear list of actions that allow someone else to get the same issue. As software is complex the other programs and settings you have might affect things too (hence the automated tools that Microsoft use).

The bit about design guidelines for the user interface: there is a guide for how Nokia expect the interface to work. This covers things such as screen layouts, actions on certain keypresses etcetera. This helps make applications look and feel the same to end users. If an application deviates from this way of doing things then whilst it might work properly it doesn't follow the standards so might be confusing. This is an issue with compliance and technically still a bug.

If an application simply doesn't do something you would like to have it do (such as make the tea) then this is a request to extend the functionality so should go via Brainstorm.

Apologies if this still makes no sense. Quite happy to chat interactively if it helps any: sometimes hard to do this without interaction and confirmation.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fargus (Post 385936)

Thanks for the compliment!

Some of it makes sense, some of it still goes over my head. I'm quite comfortable with stuff going over my head (certain forums on here are there permanently) but I feel that for this, I need help. I want to be able to submit bugs that are useful (assuming I find any). But if I need help, so will a lot of other people I fear.

I'd love to chat 'real-time', but I'm dashing out right now (Must, must clean out the fire before I go!) - if you'd like to PM me with whatever real-time medium you prefer I have a few of them and am around most early evenings, including tonight

I kind of hope that if I can get a grasp of this, I can explain what needs to be explained to other new users, which is part of the role of a 'greeter' as I see it.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevdKathy (Post 385885)

Six months down the line here there's a huge risk that all those people who jumped in with enthusiasm in the autum will be telling their friends to avoid anything maemo as it's 'buggy as all hell'.

Six months down the line there will be a new device, bugs filed for the previous one will be marked as fixed in the new device and you'll lose interest in reporting bugs.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by luca (Post 385973)

Six months down the line there will be a new device, bugs filed for the previous one will be marked as fixed in the new device and you'll lose interest in reporting bugs.

Yeah, see, now this really isn't helpful at all. Please take your trolling somewhere else, thanks.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles (Post 386050)

Yeah, see, now this really isn't helpful at all. Please take your trolling somewhere else, thanks.

It's helpful to avoid somebody wasting his time.
Edit: maemo's bugzilla is the only bugzilla where I feel I wasted my time.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fargus (Post 385936)

The bit about design guidelines for the user interface: there is a guide for how Nokia expect the interface to work. This covers things such as screen layouts, actions on certain keypresses etcetera. This helps make applications look and feel the same to end users. If an application deviates from this way of doing things then whilst it might work properly it doesn't follow the standards so might be confusing. This is an issue with compliance and technically still a bug.

The problem is that these guidelines are sometimes being applied blindly to the extent that they break common sense.

The people drawing up the guidelines aren't the ones handling the bugs, so there's apparently no feedback shaping those guidelines.

If the guidelines cause problems then the guidelines have bugs in them.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrentDC (Post 385804)

The thing is, "consumers" don't report bugs, so why design a system for them to do it?

They DO effing report bugs! Most of the messages I got on tablet school were bug reports of one kind or another.

They discussed error messages, problems with apps, and confusion over how to do things.

They were giving very valuable data on how maemo could be made more reliable and easier to use, but no one is collecting that data.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

We don't want 95% of users to report bugs. Most of them are woefully under-qualified to do so

Ha ha ha...

Ohh... the comedy of it all...

Maybe I should start crying now.

It's phrases like this that make me think Maemo is doomed if it's going to be shaped by a community like this.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

You cannot, simply cannot, make a product for ordinary users unless you listen to ordinary users. It simply won't work.

If you have a product shaped entirely by feedback from hobbyists, you'll end up with a product that only hobbyists want to use.

Re: Bugzilla: is there a walk-thru somewhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by krisse (Post 386131)

Ha ha ha...

Ohh... the comedy of it all...

Maybe I should start crying now.

It's phrases like this that make me think Maemo is doomed if it's going to be shaped by a community like this.

I don't know...I kinda liked it. It really highlights the attitude of the bug-team/bugzilla-team that I've seen so many times from Andre Klapper, ZeroJay and now GeneralAntilles. It's just good to have it more out in the open.