Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

does anybody remember the first six month of the iphone? before installer? the phone its was really little more than a proto, the keyboard waschunky and so on...

the problem here are expectation. too high. this phone did not jump here from year 2100. but since now is one of the best 1.0 piece of hardware. in 5 weeks we will have tons of decent app... and so... yes it is not perfect but it will be. And if you preord one is because you wanna be part of the ongoing optimization...

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I don't have it yet but i am flying to get in in the Chicago Flagship store at the same time as i'll be visiting my friend there and i am glad to get it even it has some issues or not.

Yes Nokia could've work on the UI better to get into the competition on their First release of the Maemo 5 platform while Android and IPhone had quite some years to perfect their same OS's, but having waited 2 months of delays, i just wanna have the device in my hands and let Nokia and those who can figure out what else we need to complete it... I was already a wreck knowing people had the pre-production devices in their hands and imagine how those were supposed to be...

If anyone wants a perfect UI for this device, then they should wait for a 2nd or 3rd version increment or something before considering getting the device. I, on the other hand, would like it now and will enjoy it until i can enjoy it even more and morer... ;)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Looks like the issue is that you aren't used to using a resistive touchscreen more than anything else. Honestly, your video actually shows scrolling working quite well for the most part.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Really? How about the browser taking 1-2 seconds to load the page as you scroll...does that have to do with a resistive touchscreen too?

Anyway, somebody pointed out that the iPhone wasn't perfect when it came out which is totally true. Unfortunately though, Nokia has a history of not fixing anything and coming out with the next phone or version we're supposed to buy. Watch, 6 months down the road it'll be Maemo6 with smooth scrolling and another 600$ price tag.

If this community can solve some of the issues this phone (that's exactly what it is) has then kudos to you. However, I still think that Nokia should be fixing their own stuff, not somebody who does this on the side, for free.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

jesus..

come on..

who really would be scrolling at THAT speed?! makes no sense whatsoever... the first 30% you show normal scrolling speed and it performs just fine..

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I don't seem to understand why there seems to be a tinge of fanboy-ism in some of the replies. Megacrazy has raised very valid points, about how a normal consumer will feel about the device. And people who think that a 10 15 minute fiddle with the device is enough to tell all about it aren't entirely correct.

Yes I love the phone, but it feels very beta-ish after you use it extensively. Yes I know, that it is the culture we live in. Sell now debug later.

The iPhone does have a very very polished albeit limited UI. But just beacuse maemo5 is more advanced that doesn't give Nokia an excuse not to have gotten it right. (Not comparing functionalities)

I've used the phone now for 4 days now and I'l list out some of the problems I encountered

Browser
1. Crashes every 15 minutes or so, I guess because I switch back and forth every min between windows. Bad nokia :(
2. History is a painfully slow method to go back a page. Nokia needs to provide forward and back buttons in the UI
3. History, open in new window, the menu(tap and hold) stop working randomly.
4. Lots and lots of checkered patterns while scrolling and esp after you start scrolling after zooming in.
5. I have a habit of opening a new window and going back to the previous page instantly(via the task switcher). All that happens is a 2-10 second delay before the page responds/scrolls again.
6. Some of the new window(in point 5) doesn't load completely when I do come back to it and have to wait 3-10 seconds again for it to load. This is a bad when the phone is billed as mutitasking
7. Links click(finger and stylus) but the browser doesn't seem to respond once in a while.
8. I like the volume control to zoom in and out, but then I have no means to control the volume easily when playing a flash video. try youtube and just see how microscopic the volume links are.
9. Drop down lists are very laggy while scrolling.
10. The address bar gives suggestions whenever it pleases. A reboot later it seems to remember all the website I have visited before :p
11. Once in a while if I click the address bar and start typing away the contact search opens up

Music Player
1. Stutters often while browsing the web side by side.
2. Scrolling just feels laggy at times. Nokia really needs to pick up the slack here and everywhere else kinetic scrolling is implemented

General
1. The pdf reader really needs kinetic scrolling.
2. I don't know if its relevant in every country or not. But the contacts application gives me an option to send a text msg to landlines. I atleast want an option to turn it off.
3. To swipe the screens the finger has to be moved a lot before the screens move.
4. The phone tells me to remove the charger as the battery is full after I have done so :D
5. The rotation sensor for the phone app is flaky, from standby I've literally had to shake the phone while holding it to get it to start. But once it starts it switches orientation perfectly as needed.

Weird Bugs
1. I downloaded a couple of pics from the internet, saved them in the gallery. then later deleted them from the gallery. But I was left with some pictures(with black thumbnails). If I tried to delete these the phone said they didn't exist or something and didn't do anything. I downloaded the pics again and deleted the pics. it worked then :confused:
2. The conversation app is showing 2 entries from my call logs and I still cant delete them :mad:


Hardware thoughts
1. There has to be ctrl, shift, and the symbol key on the other side of the keyboard. Its a pain trying to do lets say ctrl+a.
2. The build quality is fine. But I've been a E-series user for a long time and this seems like a step down.
3. The screen could have been brighter
4. Single touch makes it a pain to type fast on the on-screen keyboard. I wish it was resistive multi touch. I dont like capacitive ;)
5. Battery is just about adequate. Nokia should have put the 1500mAH battery.
6. A lil hardware(send & end) buttons would be nice. Just makes it easier to use the phone.


I still love the phone, I do. The promises it holds, the browser's capabilities(not the stability as of yet), the community behind it. and I hope most of the bugs would be resolved as soon as possible in the coming updates.

No point I suppose in discussing the third party apps, and the things the phone can't do, like lack of mms which I really do need sadly cause I still knowingly bought the phone :)


PS: this is my first post on the forum, been following it for a month or two now. But was too lazy to register :D. So a hi to all.

btw could somebody guide me how to get rid of the damn conversation entries without formatting the phone???

and NO I wont sell my phone :D

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Let me say this as an (ex-)iPhone User..
The Browser's performance isn't bad, seriously.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Okay... And your problem is...?

I just see a an ex capacitive screen user making silly taps on a resistive screen and browsing a site with too much zoom in -- rendering gets slow at times but really nothing too bad at that zoom level.

What I would really like to see is that you take that iphone and n900 side by side, clear the cache and make a test about speed and content being showed.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

At normal zoom on Engadget with flash *on*, I may get the occasional small stutter when scrolling down the page quickly but that's about it. I don't generally zoom in, but it makes sense that it will take maybe a little more time to render than normal. Remember, this is a mobile device... it's not a 4 core monster. It's not perfect, but it's still really damn good when compared to almost every other mobile device out there.

(By the way, I often see the same scrolling jitters when using the iPhone as well.)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

And that wouldn't even be a fair comparison since the N900 will render everything and the iphone won't.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I would love moderators to check megacrazy and unameduser and then ban IP's that are used twice for usernames. Both first posts and both write posts in exactly the same way. Megacrazy can we see a piccy of your n900 and u toogether pls?

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Exactly. I was just scrolling over the same webpage using an ipod touch, and performance was pretty much the same.
If i scroll at those speeds(wich is useless, 'cause nobody can read that fast :P ) i also get a lot of checkered parts and then i have to wait a sec or so to load that part.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

The only point in time when this discussion will make any point/sense will be, when every participant in this thread actually owns an N900 and can speak for themselves.

Seriously, it is clear that we, as people who do not have the device, cannot really make a point.

I will now leave this thread and (maybe) come back when my N900 finally arrived. :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Right so when MM or it's equivalent comes out I'll bite.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Something else not happening on my N900.

I'm starting to smell a trend...

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

The problem with the video is that it can't really capture how smooth the scrolling is. In real life it feels like the N900 is running at about 9 frames per second and the iPhone at about 30...if that makes sense. Android will generally run crappy right as you start scrolling but then be as smooth as the iPhone. The N900 is just jerky throughout.

Also, the browser seems to slow down and speed up randomly in how well it scrolls without opening anything or changing anything...hmmm.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Hahaha exactly what I was thinking...see what happens when you post crap about a device? More people come out with the same opinion.

Relax, I am not trolling in any way. Feel free to check as many IPs as you want.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Couldn't you turn off the flash component though?

Just pointing it out. I too look forward to MM myself.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Agreed. The backspace key on the keyboard may be used to go back a page in the browser, but it often takes several tries before it works. Still, it's better than using the history.

I still haven't found a decent "forward".

Agreed.

I haven't noticed that delay. I do find the new browser window tops itself, a behaviour I thought was to be left behind.

Agreed.

(I don't, but go on.)

Agreed.

Yes, there's something odd there. For a few days, just before I flashed to PR1.0, my N900 provided suggestions in the browser's address bar. It hadn't ever done that previously. I didn't even know it was supposed to.

Now that I've updated to PR1.0 the suggestions are gone again.

Agreed.

Yes, that is a bit odd. I'd be happy if those entries disappeared.

Those keys are sticky. Press and release "Ctrl". Press and release "a".

Yipes! Full brightness gives me sunburn.


As for the rest, WORKSFORME.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I guess I am just missing it - it seems to scroll just fine - until of course you go insane and whip your thumb (or whatever finger) up and down like a mad person. Then the page takes a small while, and to me it didnt seem like more than a second, to redraw. You can even see the grid patten in the empty space.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

We need more of these threads.






Ah, I'm sure we'll be getting them...

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Eep, the PDF reader doesn't have kinetic scrolling. I read alot of PDFs on my tablet and was hoping for some kinetic scrolling this time around.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Yes 'd love if the moderators can actually check the IP addresses to confirm the same. I just hope you will pipe down after that.

What is with people? Its the same with IPhone followers. tell them that the iPhone cant multitask and they go we dont need no stinking multtasking... blah blah blah..

I'm seeing the same attitude here also. I'm not denying the phone is good. But yes there are stability and performance(optimization) issues, that nokia needs to look into fast.

I didn't say flash is choppy, did I? Cause I know flash is too cpu intensive for even a cortex a8. That's adobe's fault.

Loosen up a bit, even a n900 can have faults and hopefully nokia will fix most of them eventually :)

Relax. I'm not out to get nokia. I did buy the phone after all :D

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Ok here are the issues:

- Smoothness of the scroll is not good at all. In other words if you look at an image it looks like it's jumping around, not sliding around like on other devices.
- You get checkered patterns when other devices do not get checkered patterns (especially when dealing with large images).

Reloading once you get the checkered patterns is on par with other devices or even faster sometimes. Set the N900 side by side with a 3Gs or a Droid...and if the scrolling is just as smooth (do not confuse with fast) I will not sell the N900 but eat it :)

un-named_user, I have noticed a lot of the problems you described but was too lazy to write it all out. Plus, it's the scrolling that really bothers me

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Does it scroll better when not zoomed in all the way?

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Really. I've never met a device I didn't want to have improved. The N900 has strong points but it has weak points too. Let's not be so insecure that we can't admit the weak points exist.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Yeah I might've cut the honeymoon a little short with this thread.

Zoom has no effect on smoothness. The more you zoom in the more checkered patterns you get. Also, if you switch tasks without closing the browser and then switch to it again...it's checkered patterns galore.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I don't know about anyone else.. But Megacrazy is scaring the Bajesus out of me with this thread. I know I was going out on a leap of faith pre-ordering the N900.. but damn, I'm all nervous now! I expect there to be a learning curve with this device and some growing pains. Expect it and look forward to working through them TOGETHER with the community (Ok, actually you guys with the technical knowhow working through it and me tagging along and benefiting from your expertise.. but clicking thanks on the forum to how my appreciation!) I KNOW that my Nokia N95 8GB will have more and better phone functions than the N900 (until a couple of firmware updates hopefully) However the browser being jumpy and lagging?? WTF?? :eek: However, in NO video have I seen, this lag or anything else. Any other review said the browser was by far the best part of the device! So the people who have their N900, is it true??? Is it people being afraid to say what Megacrazy is saying or is this some evil plot to keep me up at night wondering. Aaaaaarrgh, I hate second guessing myself! Damn you Megacrazy if this is a joke.. daaaaaaaaamn uuuuuuu! :mad: :rolleyes:

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

You can send text messags to some landlines, at least in the UK. But not all landlines!

Some landline companies convert incoming texts to electronic speech, and then phone the landline and speak it or leave a voicemail.

I think you can send and receive proper texts with the right landline phones, too.

But it would be great to have a way to avoid sending texts to landlines by accident, which I've done a few times on other phones when specifying a contact by name in a text message.
Because usually the result is a message sent to /dev/null and the sender doesn't realise.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

It's probably more an effect of not differentiating between home, cell, and work phone numbers. But it's interesting that you can do that jjx.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Actually that's why I use open in new window then switching back a lot. It just makes it less painful to browse the web

I know they are. but it just feels more natural to have them on both sides. Plus I like symbian's way of notifying about the current sticky key applied(single clicks).

and the brightness is weird. One level below maximum is actually dark and max is actually bright.. my bad :D

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Well I believe its happening on your device - we have quite a few devices in the wild now - can we get some others to weigh in on this - looks like its the engadget website thats being used to demo. Could we have a couple of people load it up and scroll around etc quickly

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

i would not take any notice just talking crap when i used the devise scrolling and browsing though the net was smooth as a babys bum my m8s got hd 2 and he regrets buying it over the n900

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

Doubtful. There has been far too much hyperbole in your posting and I'm sure many others recognize that.

I think there are enough unreasonably rabid fans to keep the honeymoon going a bit longer. ;)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

N900 is a groundbreaking device and will have a place in mobile computing history.

Well done NOKIA. You've proved the doubters wrong and shown the Americans how its done.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

The browser is impressive no doubt. Being able to use the chat on facebook and gmail is impressive IMO.

Its just that some issues need to be worked out, that's all. But don't worry about it, as these days no products come out that didn't require a patch or two to get them up to the optimum.

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I looked at the same video, and I see the scrolling is moderately smooth (not really smooth - I notice but some people can't see the difference in games, so the same would apply).

But the complaints about slow drawing of browser content are crystal clear in the video. Much of the time, when scrolling at speed all you can see is a blue display - you can't tell where you are in the page. And then it eventually draws itself in, sometimes in several stages, almost like loading a web page (although it's clearly just rendering, not fetching or layout).

That can be improved in software I'm sure. (Very sure). But whether it will actually be improved remains to be seen.

Having seen that video, I'm confident that it at least some browser canvas implementation is likely to fix the rendering performance, even if it's not in the shipping browser. E.g. Tear or Fennec, for example?

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

This phone sucks, like all new phones does. But wait a month or two and this beast will eat you alive :)

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

It can't be a coincidence that the very next post proved your point

Re: N900 - Yes, it sucks.
 

I really don't get the browser complaints. Maybe I'm visiting the wrong sites?

Although I've been to heavy ones like LinkedIn, ebay, cnn.com, youtube, etc etc etc.

And consistently, the only sites giving me fits on the N900 are those that do the same on my quad-core 4gig PC connected to a fiber network. Yes, I'm talking to YOU LinkedIn and 1and1.com. Speed up your sites! :p

Sooo... seriously, not sure where so many of these rendering and scrolling complaints are coming from. I'm just dealing with UI oddities more than anything.