Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Nobody ever wrote this in this thread.
Please reread from the beginning. Thanks.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Welcome to the forum!
It's about DrNokSnes here, not about Snesoid. Different app. :-)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Lets be clear here

a) I have the nes emulator thanks to the droid forums

b) Said emulator was used merely as an exapmle

It's hilarious how you guys focus on that aspect when I clearly mentioned others. Why does no one comment on the boot scree question.

or the countless other threads where users (and I myself have exchanged emails with other users who feel EXACTLY the same as myself.

But no your responses

End users shouldn't have the phone
We are open source but not for the ordinary user
F*** S*** A*** B***

^Are just the funniest to me^

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Wait til he finds out about the other secret mode.

...you all know what I'm talkin about ;)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Actually my remark was intended to say that if you can't get along on one of the most welcoming technical forums on the internet, than you're going to have problems...

I bet you really want to show your friends how you can play whatever it is your looking for on your cool new phone... BTW, I have no such desire but just by following the recent threads in the past couple of days I know how to do it and where to get the software required. You would have to if you had just paid attention. In the end I'm sure you think it is just easier to post a thread and have a nerdy geek prove you wrong and show the way, step by step.

In my experience here, that's pro'ly not gonna happen but best of luck anyway. :)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I don't think myself as HC-user or anything like that. But even then by reading these forums and wiki it was quite easy to figure out how to unlock extras and how to be careful with those.

Edit:
I meant when he said in OP that:
"But that aside gave me the step by step guide on how to install an emulator called snesoid and some roms."

But yeah he kinda answered that already by saying that the emulator in OP was just example

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Do you mean how we can get free m... Oh!
I better shut up. I just recently passed the initiation. I don't want to get kicked out and have to go through that again. :eek:

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I won't really comment on the emulator "stuff" cause I'm an advanced and haven't installed emulators since late 90's so I wouldn't even know how. but I will say that there is an overall negative and/or condesending tone to people who either have complaints about the phone or those who are having trouble figuring out certain features.

In almost every thread where someone is referencing things they don't like about the phone at least one or two people come in and say "go buy an iPhone". That's just not the way to treat people and it comes off as beig very pompus and condesending.

Everyone should try being more helpful instead of insulting. This type of attitude is not going to get this platform anywhere. Just my .02.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

No, not m. w. ;)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

No. What he is saying is that end users, people with little knowledge of Linux should not do things that can render their device unusable.

Software, applications, go through different stages of maturity. At early stages (also called "alpha") the applications can very well turn your device into a brick, because at that point, they are little more than technology demostrators.

After some iterations, the most dangerous bugs are fixed, and an application reaches a "beta" stage. In this stage, there may be some bugs, but at most they are annoying and will not brick your device.

After some more iterations, an app is considered stable and is released to the public.

Applications in alpha stages, due to the complexity of their code (and an emulator, or boot screen changer, are complex) tend to have difficult instalations steps and are unstable, leading to unforeseen consequences. That kind of applications are in special repositories, for example, extras-devel, and extra steps are taken to avoid users, that do not have the necessary advanced knowledge to handle them, to install them and brick their devices.

Applications in late beta stages and in release stages are in Extras, and ready to be downloaded and used without major hassle.

Let me finish with an analogy: let´s say the N900 is an airplane, and you are the pilot. You are free to fly the plane any want you want; but unless you have major programing skills (and even then!); you shouldn't try to re-program the navigation software by yourself, unless you want to crash the plane.

I hope the point is clear.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Something like this?

Can someone verify that the commands are right?

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Well, didn't you just prove his point. I agree with a whole lot with what Maemojedi said. And the answer above is point and fact. This is a very negitive and hostel place for anybody thats not part of your digithead club. I have a N900 on the way from Amazon, and I wont even open the box before it goes back.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

maemojedi, I see your point and agree with some of them. I, too, don't like how some of the wiser members, instead of explaining the risks, just say, "Its not for you," and leave it at that.

Some people paid $650 to use the N900 as a toy and testbed for hacking, etc. It is OUR device to use as we wish. If someone wants to use it as an ashtray or to level the coffee table, that's their business. I won't be happy until I do brick this thing, in my case. Its a learning tool for me. As long as I'm prewarned, its all good.

Now the senior membership has a point. Bad experiences can lead to outcry and bad morale from the afflilcted, along with disabled devices and lost data. But if someone asks me for a dangerous solution, I'll explain the risks, give instructions on device backup, restoration, and reflashing, advise them to wait for the solution to be refined and moved to extras, and let them decide whether the risk is worth it.

I don't see how you guys can share with each other but not the rest of the community. It creates a subcommunity by definition.

You should never ask for warez, and if you're treated rudely for that, that's what you get. Copyright infringement is major for anyone, and especially Nokia, which is the benefactor of Maemo.org. Steal on your own time, and if you don't know how, do the prison time and learn there like the rest of the real thugs. NES ROMs are protected property, and if you don't own the games, you don't have the right to possess them.

WE, Maemo.org, need to act more mature sometimes. Everyday, there's some punk laughing at someone, calling someone names, acting like they're smarter or superior to another. I know half the guys here were the guys in high school that got locked in lockers, dunked in toilets, and treated like doormats by "the cool kids". A majority here are smart geeks and geniuses, but alot are bitter idiot nerds, hiding behind the veil of anonymity, talking crap they wouldn't were they facing the targets of their barbs. That s**tty culture needs to die fast.

It makes it a pain to deal with sometimes. Its like going to prison (yeah, I've been twice...), and all of the guys in their cells screaming, "I'm gonna make you my b**ch!" but when you see them in person, they're quiet as a church house mouse. This is just wasting time. This is a knowledge base, the OFFICIAL knowledge base. Share the knowledge. We're not as dumb as everyone thinks.

I'm reading a book on programming in C++ and Qt, just because I'm sick of hearing, "If you don't know how to code, don't worry about it" or "If you have to ask, you don't need to know". I'm smart enough to figure out what risks I'll take with my device, and how to reach myself to program. I'm not the only one. We're alot smarter than many assume.

Each one teach one, as we say on the block. Teach, as in tell them the facts, the pros and cons, and let it be...

Now someone laugh, call me a name, tell me how stupid I am, etc. while I'm nowhere near. Just wish I could have the next Maemo Summit in DFW so I could check some of these gum bumpers. Its becoming standard for Maemo.org. Bunch of punk kids can ruin anything.

THAT's how you do it. Prewarn them, and then its on them. Some of us don't mind. Symbian Freak was the center of the Symbian hacking movement, and we freely shared that info with the required warnings. Its not that hard. Now some douche will say,"Symbian is far less complex than Maemo" So what?! Stop thinking you know what's best for everyone else. Who are you guys, Steve Jobs?! The iPhone App Approval Committee?!?

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

And then there's the perspective of many who have been here a while, who are dismayed by the impatience and audacity exhibited by some demanding newcomers.

This "digithead club" didn't spring up overnight, and is neither fundamentally negative nor hostile. Those reactions tend to come with reasons.

I think it would serve everyone, newcomers and old-timers alike, to calm down and breathe as we work through the ongoing cultural change here. Pissing contests benefit no one.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Question, is this explaination anywhere on the site as a nice Visio-like process chart that can be used to point folks to...

...this way they could see the differences between what they want and their level of platform expertise they'd need in order t o adequately support the want...

...and it would provide some means for developers to put their applications on such a continuom/procese chart so that they would be more inclined to have some canned responses ready when providing some level of support to their application?

If this existed that would have kept this discussion (and a few others) from getting out of hand.

If it does exist in some manner, any way of bringing it closer to the front of Maemo.org so that people would be less likely to ask something that would ask a question that would initiate the "ire of Maemo" (or at least such a perception)?

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

That's exactly the problem. We have users and bloggers out there targetting the people that just want to use the N900 as their daily use main phone encouraging them to go ahead and use potentially dangerous, risky options to get more apps when it's far from required. They don't know or understand the risks nor are these users/bloggers telling them what the risks are.

All the actual information, including the risks and the methods for doing so anyways are all already here for anyone to find (even if the search here on Talk isn't the best).

It's not about creating a special group of people that hold "the knowledge". It's about making sure that someone that has never had a Maemo device doesn't immediately try something that can harm his device until he at least understands what's going on and the risks he's signing up for. Again, all the info is already shared anyways, so it's not like there's anything actually hidden here, just massively discouraged.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Well jedi, you have to take in considiration, our planet is overpopulated with inbreds, so you're bound to encounter some in your life. As to this community, I've met nice & ignorant people, but it's mostly based on people who lack a social life & can't hold themselves back from being an utter n3rd. People who pretend to be someone important by creating crappy applications with bugs (lolzit)... just ignore those people & keep leading your life, you'll find some honest & kindhearted people ;}

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

There's even a wiki that everyone tries to share the information in.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

<prologue>
(thank me if you've heard this before, I just wanna guage how many times I've actually said it ;))

I'm not a programmer. I bought my tablet because my laptop's mobo fried out and I needed something to hold me over until it got fixed.

I know a little more than nothing about linux.

I LOOOOVES me some windoze. I am running vista right now, but also like xp and 7 (actually 7 is my fav os right now).

In spite of that, everyone here treats me just fine. It must be my sparkling personality (:D). I have asked a ton of questions, and have ended up with answers to all of them (after a bunch of searching, of course).

That being said.....
</prologue>

From what I've seen, stupid questions get stupid answers (I've posted my share of both).

When someone says "it isn't a good idea to try this or that," either heed their warning or stfu about it.

This isn't Nokia tech support, the people here don't have to be nice to you. NO ONE is getting paid to post here, not even the "digithead club" or whatever ******ed nonsense you called them.

No one here owes you ANYTHING.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I like Windows 7, can't wait till it arrives so I can finally get rid of Windows Vista on my laptop. :)

Yup or you get told to use the search. (I've received the same replies too).

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

"WE, Maemo.org, need to act more mature sometimes."

If you*, as a member here on the forums, act decently, try searching for an answer even just a minute or two before asking your question and enjoy participating here, you will almost always get good answers from community members.

If you instead decide to be snotty in your posts (and despite maemojedi's claims, he was in my opinion), stomp your feet when you don't get the answers you want and start completely making things up and putting them in other people's mouths, you're generally not going to have a great experience here - just like anywhere else, online or in the real world. It's just common sense.

So, you have a choice here. You either continue acting the way you have been and annoying the members of the community that would otherwise be happy to help you, or you can turn down the bile in your words and get on with getting the most out of your device with our help.

The choice is yours.

* "you" is being used here to mean anyone, not chris in particular.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

The good news Jay is it seems we only have to go through this once a year or so. :D

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I would encourage you not to send it back straight away pickles. The device itself is actually topnotch

Exactly!


On signing in I have received a number of emails in support of my experience here. users who have pointed out and directed me to particular threads where they too have been forced to reach the same conclusion as myself.

I also received a pm from a user who it seems signed up to pm me some abuse under the guise of an alias but oh well :D

I feel no need to be abusive, make fun of anyone be condescending or even curse. Only the need to reiterate that this new platform/device will be built on end users. Regardless of how you value them & choose to interact with them/me.

If you think that statement holds no weight then please look above :o

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

No one should be sending you abusive PMs or being insulting towards you either. Golden rule is in effect.

What I wrote a few posts before isn't just something that should apply to you, but to the entire community. Anyone doing that kind of crap is making the rest of us look bad.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

The issue is not creating a sub-community or sharing info among ourselves (< whoever that might be). That has never been done here in the past and everything so far has been transparent as far as I know.

This forum has gone out of its way to create WiKi's and FAQ's, and spent many man hours reorganizing to make the place user friendly. A good many of the "veteran" members you see responding in this thread had no, or limited Linux experience when they first started on this forum, myself included. The veteran members are the ones that helped us help ourselves.

Why do we feel so defensive when someone accuses us of being elitist?
It has been my experience that talk.maemo.org is not and never has been that way. If it has changed, it has done so recently and that may be not because of an attitude against new members but because some new members have preconceptions of what this place is about. In fact, most of the snarky replies that I have seen lately have come from members that have joined in this last quarter or shortly before.
In the few cases that a longer term member has replied like a snot other long term members have jumped in to admonish them.

We don't all wear propeller beanies and this is not an episode of "revenge of the nerds"...
That would be childish... just as childish as expecting an immediate answer to any question that may pop up.

This is clear to anyone who looks around and spends anytime reading a posted thread or two. What we can't always be is an on-line source for instant answers... The answers do come so in the mean time search and read. That is all.

There is also the matter of prioritizing as well as faith in the platform itself. This understanding also comes from reading and learning. Things like changing the boot screen animation will come, I know because it was done on the previous tablets. It just is not so high up on the priority list this close to the release date.
I read about one fellow who has already done some interesting stuff in this respect with the N900:

...so my advice to the OP is have a little patience and have a little faith.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I meant the phase. ;)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Maemojedi, let me give a very technical explaination of why people are telling new users to avoid Extras Testing and Extras Development. On previous hard versions, flash storage was just 1 device. It was divided into seperate sections: bootloader, kernel, boot image. Those were very small in relation to the entire flash storage. The rest of the flash storage was devoted to the internal storage. The Operating system, applications, application data and user data where stored in this large areas.

The N900 uses a new flash storage technology. There are two flash storage "chips" (I use the term very loosely). There is a smaller flash storage chip that holds the bootloader, Linux kernel, bootimage, and the operating system. This flash chip is nowhere near the size flash chips uses on older Internet Tablet hardware. There is a 32GB eMMC flash device which is partitions into /opt and MyDocs. /opt is where applications and app data should be installed on the N900. And MyDocs partiion is 25 GBs of storage that also shows up as USB Mass Storage.

Now why does this matter? Because /opt is not the usual base location that Linux software is installed. Applications that have not been opt'ified will be installed on that small flash chip with the Operating System. That is bad. Why? Because of the OS storage fills up, the N900 will stop malfunctioning. And it won't boot either. If the N900 can't boot, it can't recharge the battery. And the N900 won't operate w/o a charged batter. So in essence, the N900 would be bricked. (Recoverable, but now w/o an extra charged battery or an external batter charger. Something that most users won't have).

Why am I telling you all of this? Because most (or all) of the softare in Extras Testing or Extras Development has not been opt'ified. That is configured to install into /opt instead of the OS flash storage. Meaning you could render your N900 inoperable by just installing too much of the wrong software.

Software will be becoming, but it will take some time. Not all of the developers have N900s yet. The development environment will only go far. One needs a N900 to really give software a very through trying. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending, or I'm talking over your head. It's not my aim to do either.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I think I just heard a fat lady sing and a steam valve vent... :D

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Thanks for your input on this.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

well put. this post is the sauce. noobs, stop being butthurt asshats when you arent spoonfed. the end.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

F*cking rabble-rousers.

I don't think real contributors should have to lower themselves to justifying themselves against ridiculous accusations. Everyone here who doesn't know much (myself, for instance) owes a great debt to them, whether they know it or not.

(PS I also think they should keep sharing information amongst themselves in secret.... they'll tell us when we need to know. ;))

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

There really isn't any sort of developer conspiracy. The discussions are very much in the open-- unfortunately, people new to this community and especially new to Linux are faced with a hurdle finding them.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Aww, I pictured a "Guild of Calamitous Intent" style weekly meeting between those in the know. :(

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Guys, just had a quick read through this thread and this is the most interesting part of it! :D I may go on a bit, but I do have a point.......promise ;)

Ok, some user's are going to moan that they get "poor service", if you will, from the senior members, but those guys are just trying to stop you messing up your nice shiny toy! :) I know that I have to steer clear of -devel for a while longer yet (new to linux), so just except it and wait! And if someone says its not for you, then its actually NOT FOR YOU, they aren't just being mean, be happy they answered you and gave you the RIGHT answer.

Problem is, from my experience on here, people (me included) do end up asking questions, not because they haven't searched but the questions that THEY want aren't on a thread regarding that subject. Example: I wanted know how to get open office on my N900 so I posted asking how to do it (didn't know what I was searching for) but debernardis kindly pointed me in the right direction (easy debian).

Ok, all was good, except the easy debian main thread didn't have exactly the info I needed/wanted so I searched but couldn't find it so had to post. I was kindly answered by Qole, who answered a lot of my questions and helped me understand the process better, and now I am happy to continue to install, once some of the bugs are worked out ;)

Anyway, my point is...... I did have one....... why isn't there a more detailed wiki/thread/other place for these processes and installs or infact all the things a new user would ask. I know there is the intro page and the FAQ but detailed pages would be better.

As AJRWright rightly points out, wouldn't having a place with detailed guidance/experience chart/install processes be the best solution to the influx of new members (myself included).

If there was a "How to" on the easy debian install in all of it's debian goodness glory then I wouldn't have had to waste Qole's time by asking qustions. Its not just easy debian by the way its for new things and old. If someone has just seen the phone and thought wow, then comes on here and finds out the you can change the boot screen (another WOW), it's going to end in tears unless you have a page with BIG RED LETTERS saying unless you KNOW what you are doing, don't do this!

I think the problem is that a lot of the guys on here have got used to having a very small group of more than average users, which they don't need to explain things to and the guy asking question already know's exactly where to look if an answer does exist.

I think it may be time to re-organise/open/improve the access of the knowledge database to make it more user friendly to new users, if the N900 does what I suspect it will do, then senior guys be prepared for a LOT of "daddy, how do I do this" threads :D

Just my thoughts...........

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Do people not read posts anymore, please re-read. I did say that I read this thread and that it didn't have all the info that I wanted so I had to ask..........................that was kind of my point :)

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Funny guy....... If you had actually read it properly you would see that I was actually agreeing with you guys that people should go ahead and learn as much as possible first, before bothering the maemo.org gods................

............but that is kind of difficult when the infomation isn't ON HERE!

If you don't care don't reply (why waste your precious time) :)

and your right, this one is probably better.........

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34550

.............oh know I used the search button! Arrhhhhh :eek:

By the way I don't mind doing the walkthrough's as I haven't got the device yet so it would be me working for free......if someone could vet them and put them somewhere...........

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

From your deleted post - "This maybe?" Is not trying to help, its being sarcastic and rude.

Debian package was example - not actually what I was trying to explain. Again I said, I had read the main thread - ok bit vague should have sited, and it didn't explain everything I wanted to know.

My Main point - why is there no where with more detailled guide lines and walkthroughs for common/difficult tasks? No answer - no suggestions from you??

"Skimming over my thread because you don't care about what I have to say" - that's rude. I asked you to re-read because if you would have you would have realise the above two points.


....... SO...... any ideas to why there is no area for walkthroughs for newbies or you just going to carry on with the sarcy comments?

If anyone else is interested in walkthroughs for difficult/non standard installs, I would be happy to learn how to do them, install them on my N900 (with photos/screenshots) and post them after a vetting from a helpful senior member, vote now......:D

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

As an end-user who has been red pilling since the N800 days, I can testify that it can be a VERY bitter pill to swallow sometimes. It's always exciting being at the bleeding edge but you do so at your own risk. I've been testing some of the apps in extras-devel and they do indeed cause your N900 to flip out. I've been left unable to make or receive calls twice already. Another time I had endless error messages pop up. It won't stop me from testing new apps though. Just be prepared. If you play with fire ...

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

I am pretty new to this OS (and linux) but have a fair knowledge of computers but I have read about what a nightmare these installs can be before/during/after :D I would just like to help. If people want to do testing its their choice and their risk (as long as they know about the risks). Its also what we need in the community to help devs work out what bugs there are and allow people to figure out solutions.

Why not have a document/page for each install (non-standard), if it is detailed then they may realise how dangerous it is, and won't do it. But it would be so useful for people like me. :) That want to learn and test but need details to learn.

It would just be good to a have a step by step guide on how to do things with a colour coded flag at the top of the page green/yellow/red for how risky it is.

Slightly off topic - but we were discussing how to increase the /opt - things like this for none linux users are a nightmare. We know what we want we're just not sure exactly how to get it :D So a page on this (step-by-step) code would be very useful and I think a few people would agree with me.

This was what i was trying to get at, plus if everyone is asking how to do it - you can just point them to the page. Plus we can update/keep update pages when better/more stable solutions are found, just seems a lot less work than having a new thread every ten minutes about the same thing.

Its just a thought....... wasn't trying to annoy anyone.

Re: Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?
 

Hilarious :p