this guy makes some good points
 

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

How many threads do you plan to open?
Maybe we should consider some kind of sub forum just for you.
Who cares? Everyone who use internet.
500€? I bought mine for 365€ with shipping included. iPhone 3GS for $299? And what about two year of expensive contract?
This quote above is really enough for me to say that this review is too much subjective.
"i don't need it if my iPhone doesn't have it", you all saw that psychological study about iPhone owners, right?
Oops, he did it again:
Yeah.. N900 struggles with poor performance. :)
And again:
Yeah, nobody needs keyboard because one Nokia employer doesn't type much. Pure logic. :) I type much.
But the best part of this review is:
Wait, what was the title?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I stopped reading after he said he NEVER HELD(than finshed it to make an point) an n900 ummm pretty strong write up from a person who never held the device he is bashing. I say that to say this if you don't do a real review because you don't own or used the device than your(the person who wrote the blog) words will fall on deaf ears I honestly get tried of Iphone fanboys (not you) thinking the Iphone is the 2nd coming its not its a phone that makes things so easy to use it had no choice but to sell a lot of units. Iphone=Icandy the N900=open to do whatever you want it to a true power user IMO. End of the day I cant take anyone serious when they bash things and never used it before cause like I say with specs they always look better on paper ;)

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Ironically I read another article where a guy said pretty much the opposite when it came to cost pointing out that while an iPhone may be "cheaper" with a contract, the fact that you are locked in for two years with the crappiest of all carriers (recently reported by consumer reports) at a high cost data plan ends up making the iphone cost well over $2000 when all is said and done.

Secondly it's another guy who really doesn't NEED all the things an N900 is capable of so he obviously doesn't get it. I mean the fact that I have written my own webserver in perl and can host webpages off it, among other things, really shows who truly NEEDS an N900 and those who just want one without ever real;y knowing what they are holding.

This entire post written on my N900 virtual keyboard. :)

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

This is quite funny, actually. It's like comparing a car that you lease versus one that you own.

The whole thing dismissing Flash though, wow. That's funny. Yet it seems like both camps subscribe to the "it's necessary to compare it to the other camp offerings" ad nauseum.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

wow, good points? where ?!?!?!

he aims at getting some brownie points from apple that's for sure

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

LOL!!!

Is that guy delusional or what?

But he did make me laugh out loud a few times I'll give him that :D

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Yikes. The punctuation and spelling errors, poor grasp of the general subject and naive S60 bashing sure don't help his points.

There are much, much better critiques of the N900 and Maemo ecosystem out there. This one is amateurish.

Edit: wait-- he wrote this in August???

:rolleyes:

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

"As a consumer just looking for the best deal and usability, it is not a tough decision. $99 bucks all in! And my public WiFi traffic stats from New York City Parks show that this is exactly what consumers are doing. More than 50% of the devices connecting to my Public WiFi networks are either an iPhone or an iPod Touch. Nokia is not even on the list and Android and Palm make up less than 1% of connecting devices."

so what's with that? O_o a lot of ppl can't buy an n900???? is this what he meant?...

"To be fair, the above comparison requires a 2-year AT&T contract, but Apple also offers an iPhone 3G (8GB) for as little as $99 with contract or $299 without. And while the iPhone 3Gs (32GB) costs $699 outright, sans AT&T, it is still more usable, productive, fun and $13 bucks cheaper than the n900"

how bout 10 bucks of unlimited web of t-mo(no contract) + the announced plan to upgrade to 7.2 mbps(who got the fastest 3g network now?) ??? hmm..

"However, all things are not equal between Nokia and Apple, Apple has some of the tightest hardware and software integration ever seen in mass production consumer electronics of this class and hence the best battery management in the industry."

hardware?? can you compare the the iPhone's camera to CARL ZIESS 5MP camera of n900....+ dual led FLASH! O_o

"3) Flash: Who cares? This is a proprietary Adobe technology and there is nothing I can't do on my iPhone, where I have never had Flash."

this makes me laugh until now... lol... who cares?... yah u DON'T care coz your iPhone's DON'T do that... it can't do anything coz u never tried yet... hahaha.... F***...=]

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

There are a couple of sites that based on flash that I daily use on my netbook. One of them is a site where you can listen to audibooks online- it is based on flash. I listen books at home, while driving, at work- now with N900 Im the happiest person in the world because I do not need to setup my netbook in the car, have the whole house listen what I am listening etc. I just connect to Inet over 3g/wifi and listen to book within 30seconds- try it on "YourPhone". Does apple have a device called ISuk?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Yeah I have to agree. I'm no N900 fanboy really... I don't even have one... though I do believe it is probably the best device for me just because of who (what) I am (a nerd, geek, social leper, take your pick) - but even a minute bit of research into this forum from users who really have the N900 will combat many of his points.

Battery? He says the iPhone barely lasts a day? We have some users who barely last an hour, sure, then we have users who last 4-6 days on the N900 battery. Once we figure out the cause, then we've been proved to that it is feasible to get 4-6 days out of this device. And "At least" it's removable?? How about, holy mother of thank GOD it's a removable battery. It's called options, I can *choose* to take with me 30 batteries, bury myself into a mountain and be a hermit for a month with N900 if I so got the desire.

Who cares about Flash?...... That doesn't even need to be addressed.

Who wants a keyboard? I can not live without one. On my G1, yes, when I want to type one handed I will use the portrait on screen keyboard and the predictive text is nice. When I want to do server/ssh management or type a long email or text message - I will flip out the hardware. It's easier, faster, and more accurate than smashing glass.

Background apps?? I'm sorry... I happen to like the fact my G1 can keep me connected to all my IM's, check my email, download/install new apps, browse the web and check for facebook updates, and listen to music.. never slowing me down. I don't have to think about going to this app, switch and go to this app, switch and go... they all just check every x minutes. The N900 multi-tasking is even better than my G1.. I'm limited to 6 runnings apps + services. N900 is limited to .. however many you can run till you shut down.

Don't get me wrong. I do hate the iPhone - but I also realize that for many people it's what they need and want - and something like the N900 is not what they are after. But that review is so heavily biased it's nearly impossible to read through it without trying to take a 2x4 to the dude's skull.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Good points:
1. the n900 is just another high end, early adopter, geek toy, and not a full out change in OS strategy and direction toward Linux
2. Apple has some of the tightest hardware and software integration ever seen in mass production consumer electronics of this class
3. hardware, Nokia's special sauce, has become such a commodity now, that it is a race to the bottom on cost
4. for the foreseeable future, true value creation is in software and the sad truth is, Nokia simply does not have the software culture required to compete on the same level as players like Apple and Google
5. Nokia is a hardware company that buys their software and they will be hard pressed to compete against Apple with this strategy.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Don't feed the trolls. It's just another Apple fanboi who just doesn't get it!

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

last time I checked you posted more than I did. I also wasn't aware of the fact that there was a maximum number of threads that a person can start. Besides, you don't have to read me or participate in my threads.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

oh yes, i was waiting for the first person to rate this thread a 1 star. it happens with all my threads. i guess that if there was a minus 1 star people would use that, and yet my threads generate traffic.

you're welcome

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

And you wanted to be a moderator...?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Lemme pull on a zebra suit and grab a whistle...I'll referee this contest!

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Wait.. what good points?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I blame you all that replied to the OP's baiting post.

Wait..... I just posted too!:eek:

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I blame Al Gore. If he hadn't invented the interwebz this never would have happened.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Hey, look, there's a troll now!

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Oh, let the poor guy be. Surely anyone could confuse CrashandDie with Crashdamage.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Please...I resemble that remark...

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

trollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

He lost his last ounce of credibility with the last few lines

"But, there is already a $99 iPhone available and it won't be long until a smartphone (maybe some version of an iPhone) becomes the std handset for most everyone with a new contract, leaving Nokia with classic candybar phones for the third world and our grandparents."

Apparently EVERYWHERE but the U.S.A where Nokia still holds a ginormous market share regardless of apples entry to the market are third world. How's that life expectancy over there guys? I hear it's higher than our wonderful American one. That's totally like sooooo third world.

I also enjoy he writes this and how wonderful the iPhone is on contract, while also writing blog posts about how shitty AT&T's service is and how every NYC user deserves a Femtocell.

What a wonderfully clueless troll.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

ah, good points indeed!

The software and service sides of the business is most definitely where the future lies, and I believe Nokia is working, and has been for quite some time, towards becoming a service and software company. Just look at everything they're doing, it's all geared towards shifting the company to this side, but sadly a big company does not shift as fast as we might like.

I believe that you are correct in that Nokia does not have the software culture in-house to make the shift fast enough... but where are we posting this again?

What they have done instead is to take two communities (Symbian and maemo) to help them make the change, and while they're at it they're doing some innovative things like open-sourcing what might be part of their core-business in the not too distant future.

Interesting stuff indeed and well worth its own thread probably, but I believe Nokia are addressing the issues quite well, and I believe in some inventive ways.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

the iphone 3gs is more expensive..


its 160 sterling on 2 year contract
nokia free on 2 year contract

iphone 3gs 32 gig is about 540 on o2 pay as you go
nokia is about 430 pay as you go

i know in us you dont have the same options but...

over the long run- cant you get a cheaper contract with no phone..

all you do on contracts is basically purchase the phone over a credit period and pay for the phone rental on top.


in the uk you can get an ipone for 40 quid a month
or a simplicity 30 day contract for 20 quid a month and pay for the iphone it self. (thereby saving your self 100 pounds in the long term--- 20 times 24 plus 160- 540)

and of course have the added luxury of switching carriers any time you wish..

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

OrangeBox, why don't you reply on my whole post?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

kopte3, I hope you noticed that I didn't bring up anything under good points that you contest. In other words I agree with your posting 100 percent. You and others have successfully highlighted the bad points.

However this thread is about good points. What I was hoping that once we look at how other people who don't have the Nokia shades on view things. As a business owner I quickly learned that not the 99 percent praise from you customer that counts, but that 1 percent that points out areas of improvements.

This is the only way to progress and to make the N900 even more awesome that it currently is.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I think he provides some modestly interesting baseline-consumer perspective, but he clearly doesn't have a deep grasp of the tech platform the N900 brings to the marketplace...his blog name is a little overinflated IMHO. He's no techy.

If this article was written in August, what kind of dumb point did he think he was making with all that Central Park WiFi stat stuff?

He also doesn't understand the Open Source culture. Apple has great software people, sure...but they are tightly locked into Apple's Master Plan for the platform - this is also why the public app approval protocol is so restrictive.

Nokia have changed the paradigm - build a great hardware platform, get a solid OS running on it, flesh it out with some generally useful apps, publish the SDK...and let the OSS community rip.

Apple can't buy that level of participation. That's the secret underlying the linux explosion - something MS and Apple could never match...heck, Apple saw the light and capitalized on FreeBSD!

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

exactly,

Nokia might not have the competency of Apple in software, but they found a way to bridge that by going open source. Also providing a lot of developers for the now so hyped apps.

Nice business-model if you ask me

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

If you read carefully he did not refer to the N900 there but to Nokias in general.
As you pointed out correctly the iPhone is for the mainstream market - people who want ultimate flawless polished ui experience. For that market you can't possibly sell the N900. People are just not that techsavvy.
I agree with you on this one.
I think that fragmentation is what prevented Linux to dethrone Windows for the last 20 years. It is simple: people don't like uncertainty and unpredictability. Apple will have the same problem to solve on their hands once newer apps won't run on earlier versions of the iPhone. Nokia otoh has much bigger challenge: the multitude of platforms.
[/QUOTE]

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

[/QUOTE]

what about Qt?

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I think that what Nokia needs on the N900 is some killer apps. Something that can generate headlines. No, not Bounce Evolution or Documents to go. Something like the army can locate soldiers on the battlefield because they have the phone with them. Wait, that's just what came out for the iPhone.

Some apps like this could help to highlight not only the hardware superiority of some Nokias but the ability to capitalize on those by making good use of the hardware.

Also, if Nokia had some real interest in making this platform viable they could've built in automatic support to run earlier maemo version support. This is Nokias biggest weakness: not being backwards compatible.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

This is disgusting.

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

To title of Post... NO he doesn't!!!

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

1) Yeah some killer app... just till the other side hacks it and locates anemy soldiers who have their phone with them... :p
(I very much doubt soldiers taking their iPhone with them to battle!)

2) The "killer app" of the n900 is Maemo5 and its open source... people will be able to make and/or port apps for a very looong time into the future... ohh that and the Python, Qt and [insert own stuff here] :p

3) Making it backwards compatible was what ultimateley went wrong with Symbian (Its a solid OS it has just been around for so long... and not getting the revamp to touch - but that will change come 2010) And if they're not carefull it will be what will slow down the "progress" of future iphones to come... :rolleyes:

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

iPhone hardware = Bottom up
NiT Hardware = Top down

How many "consumers" bought an original iPhone?
Then Apple released an iPhone 3G...
Now an iPhone 3Gs...
In order to increase storage from a 3Gs 16GB to 32GB, you need to buy a whole new phone. :eek:

Nokia on the other hand released the N800 with SDHC capabilities before SDHC cards were even available. Open access to N8**'s graphics accelerators is now coming so software that takes advantage of this and other "as shipped" features is still being developed for this almost 3 year old hardware.

Has anyone found any new uses for an original iPhone? Is the battery still able to hold a dang charge? :D

If a 2 TB memory card is ever available, theoretically you will be able to pop it in your N900 and rock on. :)

Apple would release a doubled GB increase of the same old phone just in time for the holidays, every year... for the next ten years.

...Unless consumers expect more.

Fortunately others will come up with devices that piss in the Apple Kool-Aid some folks are drinking and raise their expectations.

The N900 is a good start, IMHO. :cool:

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

Fragmentation? Unix yes, linux no. That's why Unix is the walking dead, while linux is dominating the server marketspace...as for desktops? that's a different beast, as I'll get to....
There's far more to it than that. Historically, servers were a high-dollar specialist market with few players. PC commoditization destroyed that nirvana, and MS played a smoother game than anyone, and quickly swept the desktop market with trivially pirateable Windows. As PC manufacturing kicked into high gear, bundled Windows/PC deals further secured MS dominance on the desktop.

That kind of momentum is hard to stall. It took linux approx 10 years to gain commercial 'mind share', and now look at the inroads being made in the netbook market, as well as distros like Ubuntu. More PCs are offering linux as an option too.

The real hurdle for linux is 'consumer mindspace' - they (the public) have never known what it means to have a choice like this. Add to this the nonsense FUD spread by MS.....which, ironically, Apple is doing a sterling job of disproving, symbiotically benefitting linux - a common enemy strategy, of sorts ;)

This really leads me to conclude that you don't grasp the linux landscape too well, nor how it ties-in with Nokia's evident strategy.

Of course, Nokia's strategy is a risky gamble, but a calculated one....and I salute them for their vision. Time will tell. I wish them every success..

Re: this guy makes some good points
 

I'm probably going to get flamed myself for saying this... but I do believe OrangeBox has handled himself and his arguments well. Maybe there's some history with him I don't understand or know.. but those that are calling him a troll and dismissing him I think are being over-reactive and childish.

However,

While many of the points you said were "good" points in the article OrangeBox were true to an extent, they are well known strong points of Apple and points that Apple does their best to capitalize on. But the problem is.. the guy in the article used the points completely inefficiently, using 1 point to provide "proof" or an argument for another point... but the two were completely un-related.

At no point did he successfully explain how or why Nokia is not standing up to Apple's success with Software, for example, because every argument he made against the Nokia NIT has be debunked several times in this thread. Thus, even his good points remain good points with no foundation... the article is a complete waste of blog-space.

As for the iPhone app to find Soldier... I was one (a Sailor actually) - I can assure you we didn't use our phones in the battle field like that. The government has specific hardware and software designed just for them that they use for that... specifically for the extemely high levels of cryptography that they use for that data (it's obviously not something you want the other 9 billion iphone users, including the enemy, to be able to just pull up and see.)

As for fragmentation holding back Linux, unlike Dak I do agree with that. Because there is such a variety of Linux systems, and every one having unique problems, it's not as focused as Windows or Mac. But unfortunately (or fortunately) that is exactly what the Linux community is about... options. However as Dak said.. this is mostly visible in the Desktop arena (with Gnome vs KDE vs XFCE vs Fluxbox(*box) vs WindowMaker vs LXDE vs...... etc.) but this is also shown on the OS itself as there is quite a few different so-called "standards" like the File-system Hierarchy Standard (FHS), but nobody really follows any of them and thus aren't really "standards" at all.

However, I think Linux (multiple Linux's) have reached the point where they are viable for end-user use. It's taken this long due to fragmentation but at this point I believe that has become a very small issue. The other thing holding Linux back is "Linux" doesn't have advertising or campaigns to promote people. You don't see a well-known actor dude on TV going:
"Hi, I'm Linux."
"Hi, I'm a Mac.. You will do exactly what I say when I say.. mwahaha"...
"Hi.. I'm a P..."
"Well, looks like PC froze again.."
"How DARE you speak without being spoken to, Linux?"

Etc. That is how Mac won it's share of the users was clever commercial campaigning. Another example of this is the Droid and the myTouch - two of the most well known Android phones primarily because of the heavy campaigning Verizon and T-mobile did for these phones. I have never seen an N900 commercial that I didn't look for myself and watch on Youtube.

Hardly anybody knows the G1, the Cliq, the Galaxy, or any of the other 12 different android phones because there is no commercials about them. Or they are few and far between. I hear the G1 called a "geeks" phone.. which is exactly what people call Linux.. and I believe this is solely because of ignorance and mis-spread rumors.