Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Congrats on post 1000 in this thread :)

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

There are a zillion different kinds of hw accel..

On standard linux I believe flash uses gl for scaling to fullscreen..

However, plans for h264 decode hw accel on linux were canceled, I think..

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

...which is sadly an excellent argument why the current Flash plugin governance model sucks. It's not enough they don't want to do it, they don't let anyone else do it. What they don't see, or don't care at this point is that this (coupled with the 64bit debacle) pushes linux towards the flash-averse camp, and that can boomerang back in a year or two.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

They seem to push everyone at this point, it's not like it's all honey over here, either (W). Instabilities, low support, hitches, you name it. We all know how the fruit stands on this issue, too.

IMO, it can't die soon enough. It's not like there's nobody around to carry the feature torch. Besides. How many people say "flash" but mean YouTube(s) plus (maybe) a few games?

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

They should have lobbied for a tighter integration with browsers or gone outright open (fully open, not the Open Screen type of open-to-outside-help-to-get-us-out-from-the-hole-we-dug-ourselves-and-then-fallen-into). As they are now, I sincerely believe that the only thing keeping them alive is inertia (though inertia can keep things alive for very long periods of time as seen in the MS world).

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

proof of hw acceleration on n900 vidz.
the core libraries for h264 acceleration are located in /lib/dsp

h264vdec_sn.dll64P mp4vdec_sn.dll64P
baseimage.dof h264venc_sn.dll64P ringio.dll64P
cexec.out ipp_sn.dll64P usn.dll64P
dfgm.dll64P jpegenc_sn.dll64P wmv9dec_sn.dll64P
dummy.dll64P m4venc_sn.dll64P

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

kevloral: Wonderful, we tried that same hex editing trick on the old N810 flashplayer and it was able to get past the version checks, but it didn't actually work with any of the sites. It's good to see that the N900 version works when hacked.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Flash 10.1 brings some significant new delivery methods

HTTP Dynamic Streaming and Adobe Stratus 2.0

These will help reduce costs for video sites so expect them to implement them sooner or later...

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

I wonder if the Fremantle Flash can be backported to Diablo...

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

The Droid is getting Android2.2/Flash10.1 support officially within a week:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/30/m...2-2-next-week/

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

So it seems :) and it's turned of by default. Switching it on improved performance quite a bit :) next I'm going to get in to dsp overclocking and see if I can then enjoy any flash video on the internet..

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

I went to the settings window and hw acceleration was checked already. Are you on PR 1.2?

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Same here. HW acceleration on by default (PR1.2).

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Hardware acceleration that you see in the window with flash 9 has _nothing_ to do with the kind of flash gpu acceleration that flash 10.1 offers.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Also, Flash 10.1 does not automatically mean hardware acceleration, it is just something that can *optionally* be present on certain platforms (like for example the Flash 10.1 beta had disabled h264 video accel on Android).

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Regarding to your post and solution I have to add my 2 cents because made me scary what are you doing here.

This showing me lack of understanding of how flash player works.
And this solution is useless. You can fool the flash player version number this way but it doesn't mean you can play real flash 10.0 or 10.1 content at all. Do you really think the only difference between those players are the version no.??

First of all. I am working on my flaemo project and have some internal code to recognize witch version you running to be able to prevent situation that entire project will use some non compatible code.

With this solution you are for sure crash flash player. in any other project that using this method.

Secondly if you developing some project and compile it in Flash 10.1 and you are NOT using anything flash 10.1 or flash 10.0 specific you will be able to see whole content as is. It doesn't mean your original flash 9 will run faster. (It must be some placebo effect guys ;) )

I will give you example in pseudo code.

if you running flash 9 use
private var somevariable:Array = [];
if you running flash 10.0 use
private var somevariable:Vector<*>= new Vector<*>
if you running flash 10.1 use
private var somevariable:Vector<*>= new Vector<*>
Multitouch.inputMode = MultitouchInputMode.TOUCH_POINT;

if you fool your flash 9 and pretend you running 10.* guess what will happen. Yes, dead flash player. Otherwise Every project that is not running flash player version specific code will handle this task itself.
You don't have to cheat this way.

There is another one situation.

If in html code somebody added minimum version required is 10.0.0 and in fact swf is not using anything from flash 10 can happily run. The only blocker is html tag. There is simple way around this issue just call swf file directly!. [Or you can use Attilla77's Flash Launcher and you can REALLY see performance improvements.]

So once again I DO NOT RECOMMEND this solution because is useless, will not speed up anything and make even more content unable to run if some project like flaemo has encapsulation of methods that specific player can or cannot run.

Check this out.
go there with this player installed
http://www.flaemo.com/ctest/

Pseudo Flash player 10.* will run the code up to meet some flash player version specific code and will stuck on manufacturer, because next feature required real flash 10.0. witch is obviously not present in your fake player. There is at least tens of features for each player version added. speeding up a lot of things, there is big difference between flash drawing API methods between flash 9 and 10 and so on.
Flash developers are happy to use it since we where asking adobe waiting for all this stuff. Don't fool yourself!

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Just a small addition - what is broken is essentially the logic of version determination. Web/flash devs make two mistakes that break the N900 Flash use-case horribly:

a) they abuse the version determination as an upgrade mechanism. The assumption is that if someone does not have the latest version is because they simply have never gotten around upgrading it, so they just need a nudge. These people think they are making users a favor since they will be upgrading to a version which is faster, more safe, etc.

b) a more generic problem, making compatibility choices based on gut feeling, and not actual technical requirements. Often this is also a side effect of html-copy, when people copy over html sections from other sites on on-line tutorials, without matching version info. "It works on my machine, so it’s OK, right ?"

The problem is IMHO actually deeper - I disagree with the general Adobe practice that the *server* decides the content version the *client* is getting. The server should *advertise* available content versions, or the client be able to *request* a particular version, but the final choice should NOT be on the server - it’s the client that knows what it can or cannot do.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Flash 10.1 support is great! :)

Posted from my HTC Desire

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

@devu what's really going on is the fact that most of the requirements of these sites to require FP 10,0,0,0 or higher is a false claim in most parts. Not unless you start to use specific parts of publishing to FP 10.x - such as the newer 3D routines and perhaps the newer FLV encoding do you truly require a FP 10.1 plugin.

I remember a site I had done in FP 8 about two years ago and the people redid the website and via SWFObject made the site require FP10 when they hadn't touched the *.swf nor *.flv's at all.

That is what you're seeing. The moment that things come in such as signed/certificate signed material that requires FP 10 via Flash Media Server or via Flex 4 SDK or Flash CS5; that's when this trick will start to fully fail.

But YouTube, Facebook and even Vimeo don't really require FP 10. The adoption rate of FP 10 allows them to exclude prior iterations of the flash player because most folks upgrade due to security concerns or because it's automatically updated for them.

That supports my rant against other Flash developers. They need to deploy to the level that the features they require are needed. And if it's VP6 encoding, then that's just Flash Player 8. If it's the new 3D stuff, then it's FP 10. If it's h.264 encoded video, then FP 9. If it's AS3 using the newer Spark or fx.namespace, then it's 10.1 (via Flex).

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Attila77, gerbick you both are obviously right, my concern was that fake flash 9 will not pretend 10 or 10.1 and that is just pointless. But regarding to what you said I can only add, all devices that keeping-up version incrementation are ok and is not big pain really from customer point of view if you can see real benefits like performance improvements.

(I was ignorant to security improvements some while ago, but some day I have seen real danger what Flash can do using binary data, on flash 9.0.115 that was fixed or just patched. I am talking here about direct access from swf to any MySQL data base.)

But from developer point of view, if you are lazy enough or just think vector is so cool that you can use it occasionally to store 3 strings in it... instead of use array you shouldn't be called developer. I will join to your rants here gerbick :)

But that situation only showing us how looks the platform or technology abandoned without support and continuation and not allowance to maintain this by ourselves.

Anyway. From couple of days I'm in deep investigation about cross-compiler possibilities AS3 ->ABC -> SWF - ABC 2 any other stuff even python ->swf, C# -> ABC ->SWF via haxe, LLVM even Action Script based compiler. In other to be able to find solution to write AS3 on n900 on the tube :) I founded something interesting but I don't want to make off topic here.

I founded something even more interesting during this journey.

Lightspark 0.4.2 released on July 20, 2010.
Open Source Swf Player for linux. maybe instead of moaning about lack of Flash 10.1, Adobe, Nokia and all the this crap, linux guys should invest their free time and power to support that project.

This is first time I see good effort and developers behind this, did this from ground-up. Actually I am surprised (since Tamarin - ActionScript Virtual Machine 2 is open sourced from 3 years and swf specification is also transparent.) that none of Linux devs didn't notice that potential yet.

Lightspark looks very promising... is anybody here able to port this solution to Maemo? Than we can stop all this annoying threads, get rid of corp dependencies and be happy :)

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Besides the above post, there is also the option of making a petition to nokia so they may bring flash 10 to n900.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

What does Nokia care? You've already bought the device, so they've already made their money. And there's still a huge customer base that is still frothing at the mouth to buy the next Nokia product.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Let's see... HTC Desire, EVO 4G, Motorola Droid, and quite a few others have Flash Player 10.1 now. Still no word from Nokia is... downright unacceptable.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

http://i25.tinypic.com/t5por6.gif


What's the excuse for this? :mad:

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

I guess Nokia decided that they never will get there hands on the N900 maemo5 System again. I wouldnt wonder if they dont may speak about it on the Nokia HQ couse its banned.

This is ironic but the sad truth. Did we see anything from Nokia for our N900 devices since PR1.2? Anything?

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Many will argue that new builds of the OS exist now. Many will argue that Flash 10.1 isn't needed or wanted. Many will argue... a lot of things.

But what's not arguable? Froyo is being released on more than just the Nexus One, thus Flash 10.1 is showing up on quite a few handsets that were previously only speculation. And ultimately, the N900 has no concrete date of when this is going to happen for Maemo 5.

Those are the facts.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

For the record - we did. The first release of the Web Runtime, an update to QtMobility and a low-level camera API no other platform has. All this while most of Nokia was on vacation. The problem is that users have firmware blindness - no service or upgrade is noticed unless it is part of a firmware. Which is bad, because at some point some manager will say 'hey, why release this, let's wait and run it through the firmware process, if that makes people happy'.

That said, I wouldn't hold my breath for Flash 10. By now it is clear that the Open Screen Project does not work, and that vendors do not wish bear the cost Adobe is trying shift to them. Currently, this means Flash ports are done by 3rd parties (like Movial doing Flash for MeeGo and Android), which in turn means an almost guaranteed bad support cycle. I'm not too optimistic on the future of Flash on mobile platforms, the youngest crop of Android devices got 10.1, but every next upgrade will be fight even for them.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Flash 10.1 will cut back on video hosting costs in two ways and I think a lot of major hosts will want to switch to using these new delivery methods as soon as possible, when most people on the web have Flash 10.1 installed and not 10.0 or earlier.

Traditionally the Flash Player has had to download an entire video over http at once, even parts the viewer doesn't watch. If someone doesn't watch the entire video then it's a waste of bandwidth for the host. Some sites have deliberately slowed video downloads so viewers who click off early aren't as likely to download the entire file, but it still happens.

With http dynamic streaming the video is sent only in chunks and stitched together by the player(NetStream.AppendBytes()). So if someone watches part of a video they will only download part of the video, guaranteed. The host doesn't have to use bandwidth throttling and it's even an improvement over RTMP streams because of the ability to have a larger buffer. RTMP streams can annoyingly skip if the viewer's download speed is too slow.

Flash 10.1 also makes it possible to have a "zero cost" video site with P2P file sharing. Here's a proof of concept posted last week:

http://www.flashrealtime.com/video-o...t-replication/

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Funny that, http has supported byte range requests for files since forever..

Coincidentally, the youtube http server lies and says it doesn't support resume, but actually does..

MPlayer can stream and seek inside .avi without downloading the entire file, over http, when the http server supports resume.. So it sounds to me like they're first sabotaging regular resume, and then fixing it by reinventing something new they can sell or patent..

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

I hate that I cant stream music from http://www.deezer.com/en/ and it's a shame. I know there are alternatives like last.fm etc but thats not the point. Deezer has various mobile options as well including Android, Iphone, Blackberry etc but nothing for Maemo :( heart broken!

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Yea I don't see the reason why they created the F4M/F4F format and an Apache plugin. Both are open spec so they're not trying to sell it but I don't see the point of it. F4F files are pre-split fragments and the Apache plugin seems to just hide the extension.

Range requests can be made in AIR with URLRequestHeader but "Range" headers are specifically blocked right now in Flash Player. A possible workaround is probably to modify the web server to accept an alias like "X-Range" or "Range2". The header would also have to be approved in a crossdomain.xml file.

Pre-splitting your own way with any file splitter and requesting the fragments without any server changes should work with NetStream.AppendBytes too. Maybe there's an additional performance benefit to having fragments pre-split instead of using range headers. Official Range header support would be nice though regardless.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Pshh Nov. 11th release date? Seriously?

It was at LEAST Dec 10th before they were actually available anywhere.. (here in the US anyways)

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

It was supposed to launch Dec 15 in Romania. Got it Dec 1st. I do remember it was a limited release, 5 countries only, EU. It wasn't until 20th or 25th Nov that they started shipping outside Europe. I remember ordering it 28th and arriving 29th or 30th. I have files dated Dec 1.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Is there any lobbying that can be done to get Adobe to reconsider AND GIVE US FLASH 10.1???

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

It's up to Nokia, not Adobe. Remember that.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

need flash! need flash now!

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

It's up to both. Remember that.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Why is flash soo important?

Its time everyone kills flash anyway its a deadend. No serius developer should deevelop apps in flash anyway. its not true multiplatform and eats cpu :( learn html5 atleast its more open that crap like flash.

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

Trolling eh?

Flash is far superior than html 5 and believe me there is a lot of stuff to learn if you want to develop in flash , html 5 on the other hand is very very easy

Please learn difference between real programing and markup languages

Thanks :)

Re: Adobe Flash Player 10: When will the update arrive? Is it coming at all?
 

I think Nokia should just use this forum to look up what their customers want and what they expect of Nokia to do for their device most, because in the end - these are all potential customers for upcoming Nokia phones, they might all get Nokia some revenue - and it is a shame to displease these people so much. When I've bought the N900 and saw the video of Kevin Lynch presenting Flash Player 10.1 on the N900 I was really excited and thought it would be out in a few months...but now, exactly 10 months after the presentation, it seems to look really bad.
But why is Nokia doing this, is it, because they think if we get Flash 10 we wouldn't buy the next model/phone or something we don’t understand? I'm sure if the next flagship has great ingredients, most of the people who use the N900 will also very likely buy it.
I just can not see why they keep Flash Player 10 away from us. They said, this phone is all about the computer-like internet experience and now one of their main selling points is fading. It's a really sad story - but I still hope that it will have a happy end.

PS: I wish someone at Nokia would read some of the more than 1000 posts in this thread, and take some action.