Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Lower frec 250? I fell comfortable using Lehto 125 one.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Huge thanks to Lehto for sharing this, I'm now running with the 900MHz/500dsp with no problems whatsoever and everything seems way smoother. Now it's just to see how this affects the battery consumption, or the OTA updates. But it's easy to reflash so it's absolutely no problem either way.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Someone asked for a one-hour GPS test. I just ran Mapper and Maps for more than an hour with no problems. I'm running at 800mhz.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Maybe it's time to put the original quote in here, before it gets lost:

http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/thewarningtm.jpeg

There you have.

Also, consider if there's a reason the smart people as someone said previously didn't tell you how to do it even when then there's a kernel parameter for it.

Of course, you're free to do as you wish.
So, testing revealed the thing is unstable at 125Mhz, and documentation reveals that 720Mhz is the last in spec frequency. 600Mhz AND anything over it (note: 600Mhz is included!) is known to sensibly reduce core lifetime.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

but only if you're running the whole tim @ 600mhz or higher.
the new kernel just allows the n900 to clock higher. so if needed it can clock above, but it's not locked @ this frequency.
on normal use, there is no difference between the new kernel and the stock one.
and what means reduce the lifetime? from 10 years to 4 years?
that it is worth.

but thanks for pointig this out.
it's a risc, that shouldn't be underestimated!!

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Source?
...........

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Yes, that's why I spent a few minutes googling for the quote :)
But what are all those people going to do? Keep it idle? No, they're going to play pcsx4all which will lock it at whatever the maximum frequency is.
The expected lifetimes are unfortunately not public AFAIK.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Nokia-side troller... locked-at and lifetime scale were long time discussed before overclock mod.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

125Mhz comes from https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7116 (as you can see, testing firmwares had scaling_min_freq set to 125Mhz). There has also been comments about that on IRC.

720Mhz comes from the 3530 datasheet, which is public. It also indicates it should be run at the same core voltage as 600Mhz, which may or might not apply to the 3430...
Actually, seems that only applies to newer 3530s.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Unfortunately for the fear mongers, the expected lifetimes are public. They are even reported in this thread. You even thanked that post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...2&postcount=91

I'll summarize (again) the data: the CPU is supposed to work for 100000 hours if not more than 23000 hours of those are at the highest voltage level (the one used for 600MHz in the standard kernel and for higher speeds in the overclocked kernels). In other words:

If you stress the CPU for 6 hours every day, it is supposed to hold on for 10 years. Even if the CPU is locked always on 600MHz it should work for 5 years.

Please note that TI talk about voltages, not frequencies.

In my kernel (which already works on my device with no problems for a few months), I use OPP3 for 600MHz and OPP4 for above that, and it seems stable, so I even lower risks then with Nokia's default configuration.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

What is supossed we must think? Nokia is buying low price chipsets for n900?
If same chipset is runnig by default at 800mhz when implemented by other manufacturers, Nokia must buy the same too...
What lifetime do you need? I spent first half year with a dummy device. With overclocking and PR1.2 (if I live enought to see the update) I will use n900 for no more of two years... and then I will overclock to 1050 and when burning thow it to the sea like Vikings.
The only thing is that now I have a nice phone, if it only lives two years, enough for me.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Neither source gives any argument why 125 MhZ may be unstable. Only "sayings" ("I've heard it may be unstable").

This seems to be a little vague, too.

Only real argument ist some slide from the posting some postings above this one... thin, really thin.

So I would summarize: No facts against higher clockspeeds - and no facts in favour of higher clockspeeds ;)

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

For the 3530 (which I even mentioned in my post!), yes.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Just oc'd from 800mhz to 900mhz. 900mhz performs way better multitasking than the 750mhz oc. See the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdvhHya3A6c

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

had mine on 900/125 for 12 hours now all gravy so far.
One thing though in conky it never seems to drop below 500mhz even with 2 percent usage.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Way to post a sensible, objective response. :rolleyes: It's not "fear mongering" to pass on warnings given by Nokia engineers to enthusiasts given free phones. They know the design limitations of the phone and and chipset combination better than any of us, after all.

I appreciate your information, but the presentation was unneccessarily subjective (to the point of factual misstatements).

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

"With the ability to scale in speed from 600MHz to greater than 1GHz, the Cortex-A8 processor can meet the requirements for power-optimized mobile devices"

Source: http://www.arm.com/products/processo.../cortex-a8.php

It was said hundret times that Cortex A8 was made with great scalability of speed in mind. Long live OCed N900's :)

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Ok, stock 600mhz phone cpu life is 10 years.
1000mhz phone cpu life is 3-4 years? But very better multi-tasking and fast response.

After 1-2 years coming dual-core cpu, better ram and very better display.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Of course not. What argument could I give you here? The only thing I can give you is that on previous firmwares, the minimum frequency was 125Mhz, and then it was upped to 250Mhz. You can guess that was done because:
a) It was unstable at 125Mhz
b) Power savings were negligible
c) Nokia is evil*
d) Nokia is incompetent**
e) All of the above
Choose your own option.

So a kernel hacker telling you that is a "thin argument"?

You might say "so I know that the 3530 has its lifetime reduced by a half when working at OPP5, thus I'll consider that a similar clause applies to the 3430 and thus I'll do it". Fine. But at this point, the 3430 datasheet might say that either OPP5 is completely fine and does not reduce lifetime, or might say that OPP5 reduces lifetime to 1/18: we don't know.

Of course, does it matter to you? That's the issue here. You don't care, you want higher clock speed, you will replace the device in 6months either way (which btw is the average shelf time for $600 phones), ...

*If you think "Nokia is evil", consider that they did increase the maximum operating frequency of the N800 in a firmware upgrade when they found it safe to do. God, is it so hard to understand that Nokia is composed of people that also want to reach the device limits?

**If you think this is the case, we might even get Nokia to make it happen in the official kernels. Feel free to file a enhancement request!

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

The Cortex-A8 is not a physical thing, but a design (aka "a piece of garbled paper"). A design has a maximum theoretical frequency of operation. An implementation has a real one.

I'd like to see one 3430 clocked at more than 720Mhz by a commercial manufacturer. Please find it for me!

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Igor explains why overclocking is dangerous and its harm cannot be easily detected
http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ry/024208.html

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Wheheyy 900 posts :P

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

@Javispedro

Manufacturers set everything to lowest usable speeds because they are overcautious. My very old N95 has all electronics in great state but everything else(plastics, screen etc) is just in agonal state so I wouldn't mind if they made its processor twice as fast with half of lifespan if it would still last longer than phone itself. Anyway, people know the risks of overclocking their N900's so let them be happy as not everybody want to have one device for more than 2-3 years anyway.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

From Igor Stoppa, the engineer who gave the warning.

Takeaway messages:

• Don't use temperature sensor readings as a guide to what is or is not going to damage the system
• The N900 can not be expected to handle sustained overclocked heat production as well as a phone using metallic casing. More generally: device heat sinking is an important parameter.
• The operational voltage (as was stated by Matan) is the main reason for the decreased lifetime when running at top frequencies.

What's not directly included in that short message, but is known for modern CPUs, is that operating at elevated temperatures accelerates the process known as electromigration, which eventually leads to a short or other fault in the processor. It's a cumulative effect, so e.g. if the CPU is at 40C and top voltage for 1 hour, the decrease in lifetime could be equivalent to 100 hours at 30C and bottom voltage. It's a consequence of the exponential dependence on temperature of the relevant physical processes.

Realistically, if you are going to throw away your N900 in a year or even two, overclocking the top speed step to 800 MHz and using it normally is probably not going to be a problem.

Edit: oops Titan beat me to the link. ;)

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

plugged in via usb maybe? ;0)

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

That's not a valid argument thought. Like Javis said Cortex-A8 isn't really anything physical.
Samsung got official 1ghz processor(45nm) called hummingbird that uses Cortex-A8 arch where first phone is released in months time, but it's 45nm and doesn't share much with the N900 while it's running 600mhz Cortex-A8.


For me this overclocking is great. I buy new phone every year for certain and i'm not planning on selling N900 so i'm really happy with the 900mhz overclock.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

i've just flashed mine with the 800mhz 125 idle and its running fine, actually, the change is amazing.

everything feels much smoother, i am able to stream bbc iplayer perfectly over my 3g connection, which i never could before, youtube tv shows now works very well, and overall it just feels much smoother.

i'm gonna be keeping an eye on it over the next few days, if it starts to play up i'll flash it back, but right now impressions are pretty good to be fair.

great work and massive thumbs up to everyone involved!

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

I'm not planning to play pcsx4all, and I doubt that "all those people" are either.

I think you don't understand "all those people" very well. They just did Nokia a big favor by getting good publicity at a time when most publicity isn't going to Nokia.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

You know the simple things in life :)
Don't know how I missed that one, just charging and forgot the usb was in. Cheers

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

I always appreciate caution, but unless Nokia got a special 3430 chipset that is "weaker" than the ones in the Archos 5 and Sammy / Motorola phones, 800mhz is well within the operational ceiling of the chipset.

The one caveat is if the cooling solution in the N900 is weaker than those units, but I notice zero temperature difference between 800mhz and 600mhz. I also have not noticed the battery to be draining any quicker, based on my normal use. I DO notice that the N900 performs very smoothly now, for everything to do with the phone. I could not say that before. The N900 is now just as smooth as the Droid (which is also at 800mhz max scale).

Kind of like (in a loose way) the SU7300 Intel chip. Stock is 1.3ghz, but ASUS and Dell both ship at 1.73ghz. I luv my M11X- almost as much as the N900 :)

Hillbilly summary:

The N900 now performs smooth like I expected it too in November. My favorite apps (MAME and PSX4ALL) both play much better, as well as video and Flash content. So much so, I suggest the 600mhz is too weak for the design and function of the device (it is smooth now, but was not prior to OC).

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Well spoken...

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Did you read the previous posts (on top of the previous page)? :)

But thanks for mentioning overclocked 3430 devices, btw.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

I'm really, REALLY itching to try the 800mhz kernel now but I'm holding out for pr1.2 :D
________
Honda cb750 specifications

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

The flashy lights and promise of a greener land will get you soon enough :)
900/125 rocks the n900 and brings it close to what it should have been.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

if u stop using a mobile phone, ull have a longer lifespan

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

If metallic cases disipates better, I think we must buy an iPhone...
(only joking this time)

(it's so funny to me looking at the fanboys trolling! I can spend the one-year-life of my n900 only watching them!)

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

See a lot of posts here!
Bad publicity. I cannot for one keep stressing that "the Mhz is not everything" then happily sing along when Engadget comes because of the 1 Ghz mark. They were wrong then and they're wrong now (in the MIPS race, the Snapdragon beats the OMAP3430 hands down -- 1 Ghz does not do much to help this, the rest of features of the OMAP do).

Neither does this prevent "the obsolescence of the N900" unless we can get the official max frequency upped (aren't we a community? shouldn't we try to find stuff that works for everyone?). Which will only happen if it's safe enough. And believe me -- compromises _are_ made.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

I don't know who u and ull are, but i also don't really see how it relates to overclocking my N900.

And if you're referring to the "radio waves give you cancer" hysteria, well, we can all drop the supposed fearmongering being dished out here to really let it all hang out with that wholesale madness.

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

No I will not choose one of them, because these are all unofficial, made up arguments for a design decision we can't explain.

As far as I know the warning was given to people from some programmers - not hardware engineers.

I read enough specifications for the arm-chip to trust in overclocking it quite a bit. I don't know about the other hardware around it - and I don't care. A lifetime of about 2 years is more than enough - I never had one cellphone for longer than about a year (max) ;)

;)

Nokia's first and most important goal is to earn money. I don't think this is a wrong thing to survive in today business-markert - but, I also believe that many "technical restriction" are marketing or businessplan-restriction and are simple sold to the consumer as "facts". Maybe I'm a little paranoid here - but I am old enough to: btdt.

I don't care if Nokia makes these chances in the official kernel. We have the sourcecode and are allowed to change and use it - so why shouldn't we. We don't need no authority to do it - and that's a good thing...

Re: Overclock the N900?
 

Yep :)

I also agree with the points of it and Flandry's concerns. Almost any chipset that is ran at max speed more than min speed will (in theory) last less. The key is how long you run the device at the higher speeds and what point the chipset begins to be impacted.

The key issue for the degradation curve is heat and the point on the curve in relations to clock cycles that a spike takes place. Heat and clock cycles appear to have a proportional relationship until you hit the operational ceiling of the chipset. Chips are set based on being below this point (with at least 20% tolerance), but some (like the SU7300) are intentionally clocked low, mainly for marketing reasons.