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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Community (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Ask the Council! History thread (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=41451)

misterc 2011-08-04 18:03
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 484320)
Specific to my goals...[...]
- (personal goal: joke less, help more)

Ah... no. I have failed. :o
from the posts i have seen from you lately, i think you made steady improvement there :D
certainly as far as joking is concerned... :rolleyes:

momcilo 2011-08-05 20:27
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Bug 9314 - Re-license BME

So far the bme has following two reasons for being closed sourced:
  1. security
  2. differentiation

Let's assume we can somehow address security concerns (e.g we ensure common user can not be subverted to install bogus package).

So there is something that is somehow so valuable that it can not be released as open source. I still think we should try to somehow overcome that restraint.

How about releasing a specification for hardware interface + providing simpler, usable, less efficient, but still safe algorithm as the replacement for the advanced closed source variant, that would not threat the differentiation goals of Nokia?

The benefit is that the user can still choose between more efficient closed source variant and less efficient open source variant. The whole thing should be used as backup plan, when Nokia finds itself unable to provide the closed sourced package in future.

The question applies to 770, N800, N810, N900.

vi_ 2011-08-05 20:39
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Start with the easy packages first right? You will NEVER get the source to BME. Ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by momcilo (Post 1064837)
Bug 9314 - Re-license BME

So far the bme has following two reasons for being closed sourced:
  1. security
  2. differentiation

Let's assume we can somehow address security concerns (e.g we ensure common user can not be subverted to install bogus package).

So there is something that is somehow so valuable that it can not be released as open source. I still we think we should try to somehow overcome that restraint.

How about releasing a specification for hardware interface + providing simpler, usable, less efficient, but still safe algorithm as the replacement for the advanced closed source variant, that would not threat the differentiation goals of Nokia?

The benefit is that the user can still choose between more efficient closed source variant and less efficient open source variant. The whole thing should be used as backup plan, when Nokia finds itself unable to provide the closed sourced package in future.

The question applies to 770, N800, N810, N900.

Texrat 2011-08-05 20:53
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1064199)
from the posts i have seen from you lately, i think you made steady improvement there :D
certainly as far as joking is concerned... :rolleyes:
The last two years my sense of humor has diminished significantly, so I can't take credit for better behavior.

momcilo 2011-08-05 21:11
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vi_ (Post 1064845)
Start with the easy packages first right? You will NEVER get the source to BME. Ever.
Both difficult and critical package at the same time, besides I did not ask for the source of BME.

I've asked for:
  1. hardware interface specification
  2. independent charging algorithm

The first one ensures we can interact with the charging process. The second one does not need to compete with closed source BME. It should provide redundant solution.

misterc 2011-08-05 21:26
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 1064851)
The last two years my sense of humor has diminished significantly, so I can't take credit for better behavior.
don't take it so seriously...
it's not that important, is it?

as far as i'm concerned, you still get a good grade...
well, 1/2 a good grade, that is, for the joke part :D

Texrat 2011-08-05 21:32
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterc (Post 1064869)
don't take it so seriously...
it's not that important, is it?

as far as i'm concerned, you still get a good grade...
well, 1/2 a good grade, that is, for the joke part :D
Change in job/financial situation in 2009 was pretty drastic. Not happy since. Working on it though. Thanks for the good grade.

misterc 2011-08-05 21:56
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 1064873)
Change in job/financial situation in 2009 was pretty drastic. Not happy since. Working on it though.
sorry about that :(
sharing your pain :o

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texrat (Post 1064873)
Thanks for the good grade.
welcome!
appraisal is important, right?

misterc 2011-08-05 22:19
Re: Ask the Council!
 
momcilo, vi_,

no disrespect for your discussion about BME.
just not sure how much worse then NOKIA's solution anything could possibly be

also don't understand the security + secrecy aspects.
i happened to use my phones for a few days in 2G and without any network feature and the batteries never even showed any sign of drain.
that changed drastically when i started to make pictures, however :(

so, yeah, the battery drain doesn't have anything to do w/ batteries or design of the N900 but simply with the wealth of features it offers... and ppl simply use.
it's a trade off.

back to the topic, from How long does your battery last? as well as from many packages in the various repositories, i was under the impression the battery was well under control :confused:

or does it have to do w/ the USB port that has like, well, three functions i can think of
- data
- charging
- boot "choice"
?

Estel 2011-08-05 22:36
Re: Ask the Council!
 
Much more interesting (and less based on unproved assumption) research about bme was done by joerg_rw, shadowjk, 412b and others - I recommend searching for and reading their findings.

Basically, my uneducated (and possibly wrong) "short conclusion" is that replacing bme would bring need for rewriting many other maemo parts (API?), + loss of possibility to charge @ 500 mA from computer USB port (only 100 mA - ho ever, charging via wall charger wouldn't be limited). Long story short, doable, but hard and requiring much, *much* work.

Also, I agree that asking about releasing source code for bme *or* even some simple replacement entity (tm ;) ) from Nokians is pure waste of time. Cause obvious, historical reasons ;)


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