Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

just open the bug and you can see the target milestone and you can see there. i checked couple of bugs and it all marked as PR 1.2.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Because they all marked as fixed in PR1.2

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

it does say 1.2 milestone LOL :D

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Because I marked them as such, and I would never ever lie. :D

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Maybe some background here from the bugmaster's point of view:

A few months ago, I started using a generic Target Milestone in Bugzilla called "5.0/+" and set this Milestone plus the status RESOLVED FIXED for reports that "will be fixed in the next update of Maemo5" (at that time).

However, Nokia surprisingly started releases like PR1.0.1 (1.2009.44-1) or PR1.1.1 (3.2010.02-8) that only contained some cherry-picked fixes which not only surprised me and made the assumption that I had written ("will be fixed in the next update of Maemo5") a lie, unfortunately. So I started writing "Will be fixed in the a future update (not necessarily the next one)".

However, that sucks too of course. So today I set at least those reports for which I absolutely know that they will be included in the future PR1.2 update to an explicit Target Milestone called "5.0/(PR1.2)".

This does NOT mean that this "Fixes in PR1.2" list is complete yet.
It's just those fixed issues that I'm sure of so far as they were fixed two weeks ago or earlier, as Nokia in the past always had 2 or 3 weeks between packaging the update internally and releasing that update for public. Those 2 or 3 weeks are used for testing, verification etc - you know, bureaucracy is slow.

Plus it also makes it easier for Nokians in maemo.org Bugzilla to set realistical Target Milestones. A bit less frustration for everybody, hopefully.

Hope that helps a bit in understanding.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

...and as a shameless plug for the maemo.org Bugsquad: There is a Bugday tomorrow, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...242#post560242 . Say Hello on IRC if you want to. :-)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Sorry for you, but I actually prise Nokia for doing it. PR1.0.1 and PR1.1 were actually a RELIABILITY fixes and it's delay could harm not only Nokia public image but it's customers too. For exam, I considered the question "stay with N900 or not" depending from Nokia fix of "random crash" bug even I had no this problem. It was fixed and the rest is just nuisance (sorry again for you).

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Well, me too. I never said that those releases were unneeded or something, they just surprised me when it came to my workflow. :)

(I think we all agree (hence nothing to discuss) that we want Nokia to publish updates more often or in the long run switch to package based updates that could happen every day like any other Linux Desktop distro, instead of huge updates only every few weeks or months...)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Actually, I think it may be not very good idea - often releases for general public. Other Linux distros are actually for geeks besides some very conservative (like Slackware). And minimizing the number of upgrades by packing multiple fixes is not bad idea too.

But I can suggest an early release of bug fixes to people who has interest in it. That would dramatically increase a tester base and improve the quality PLUS improve the customer morale.

That is a "has interest in it" - it is a matter of different approaches. One exam - anybody who vote for bug (plus bug reporter).

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._packages-002/ ?

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Andre, thanks for your work.

PR 1.2 must be such an interesting update considering my inbox has nearly overflown with a lot of new target=pr 1.2 bugzilla messages! Good news!

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Yes, the most of us know this Brainstorm. Thank you Andre. :)

It's one of the leader of every brainstorm statistic. But what happened? It's there since 4 Month. And what has changed?

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

As I also received a message from bugzilla for setting the target to PR1.2 I think this means that Nokia already knows what will be included in the update and what won't make it. Which should mean that the update is pretty close to release :D
I've just made a quick search against the PR1.2 milestone and the PR1.1 (2.2009.51-1) in the bugzilla. Here are the stats by severity

PR1.1 (TOTAL - 186)

• BLOCKER - 2
• CRITICAL - 9
• MAJOR - 22
• NORMAL - 118
• MINOR - 32
• ENHANCEMENT - 11

PR1.2 ( TOTAL - 292)

• BLOCKER - 3
• CRITICAL - 13
• MAJOR - 26
• NORMAL - 190
• MINOR - 51
• ENHANCEMENT - 19

So If we believe bugzilla at least for me this means that PR1.2 will be bigger in terms of stability/improvements, but not new features.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

So, if PR1.2 won't make OVI Maps usable and Sygic app will be still on hold than I'll simply say - F*** Nokia and their customer care policy.

How could they sell a device for 500 and not to support it's hardware completely. I feel like I've been screwed and I don't really even know when the hell it had happened!

They should have stated clearly enough at the very beginning that the N900 is a beta device and it's functionality is limited. I and many alike were misinformed, because on their on-line store there was no info about navigation software being in the development state.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

De Ja Vu, Back in Nokia N97 world. Bit disappointed myself, wish I'd gone for an Iphone (sort of).

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Please read comment 259 again. I clearly wrote that the list is NOT complete so your assumption is wrong.

I expected some rumours and maybe wrong conclusions when I cleaned up in Bugzilla yesterday. Thanks for providing proof. ;)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

You might want to define the highly subjective word "usable" by providing some clear, testable personal requirements for the next version of Ovi Maps - otherwise you will not be able to find out for yourself whether to say "F*** Nokia" or not, and at least I reeeeally dislike those moments of uncertainty whether to say F*** you to somebody or not. ;)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Not much so far. Companies don't change a running system (at least running for them) in the current, already existing series (e.g. "Maemo5") if it works more or less well for them.
Getting infrastructure in place takes some time, and 4 months are not much, having bureaucracy of large institutions in mind, may it be politics or a large company.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Andre, can you provide us some light on how long do we expected to wait for the PR1.2? Just a guestimation will give us some hope :)

And i like the idea distro application updates or fixes. And may be Nokia Map can also release by distro repo as well. This would make update much easier to manage and feel more control over the amount of time taken to download.

Thank you Andre

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Nokia people haven't tended to use bugzilla to communicate about new features before they are released in the update. So I wouldn't say that PR1.2 will not be bigger in terms of features. That of course we won't know until it is released.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Usable means:

- search function device not server sided
- turn-by-turn with voice guidance

That is what a proper navigation application should do, as simple as that.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Honestly: I simply don't know, plus even if I shared any of my personal *assumptions* people might easily misinterpret them and they wouldn't be helpful anyway ("Probably less than four months." - "What, we might have to wait for four more months?!" - "Either that, or less, or maybe even more". See? Doesn't make sense).

Yes, I'm of course drawing my personal conclusions (maybe better: assumptions) as I have access to some internal stuff or can read some internal comments, but I don't know any dates. Dates would not make much sense anyway, because plans can always change (cf. time-based vs feature-based release schedules).
Normally Nokia tells me a little bit in advance about an upcoming public update (which is totally fine and enough time) so I can come up with a ChangeLog and get my stuff prepared.

So far public ChangeLog creation has always been quite a mess because of the 2 or 3 weeks difference between internal packaging of an update and its public release (mentioned already in an earlier comment in this thread):
I marked bugs as FIXED in bugs.maemo.org but they were fixed in a later internal version *after* the public update was packaged. Sorting that out for the ChangeLog was lots of manual work.

In a naive attempt to avoid that mess this time I started to mark
those bugs that are definitely in for the next update earlier already (well: yesterday). Crossing fingers that this helps me saving some time - Time will tell. :)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

As I've written in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9544 , Nokia currently has no plans to fix this as the N900 is meant to be an always-online device. Please note that this is not necessarily also my personal opinion.

True if Nokia announced/advertised Maps on the N900 as "navigation". Proof welcome.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

And it has been answered...
...which is quite a reasonable answer - in my personal opinion.


and one more thing:

Do you expect a car manufacturing company to announce it's a brand new model as a car "that is meant to be driven"?

It's a simple assumption being made based on the "Ovi Maps preinstalled" advertisement, essecialy when one is moved from a symbian device! C'mon, who are you fooling here?!

We've been served a half-backed OS, and all signs on the sky proof me that it is not going to change after all.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

I think OFFLINE searching is really important, not every country in the world got internet 3G connection at affordable price. The scenario is like:

Going oversea and got lost in a city and cannot find the way around because of the language barrier. Pull out the N900 and do a search for Hotel and place to go or to get back without needing internet connection or simcard change.

I think this is very handy. Voice turn by turn also very useful when driving in the above scenario.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Yeah, I think we all agree that offline search is handy and all had our moments when we've cursed that this feature is missing.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Ah, so the N900 is clearly a navigation device and not something to make phone calls, write SMS, or go online. I see... ;)

Calm down and assume that people meant well.
I didn't have a Symbian device before that had Maps on it so I didn't expect it personally. Sorry that I don't know any potential feature of Symbian phones by heart.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

imo the betas were with Diablo, now the issues are minimal compared to those times.... a lot more users here and not so much more groan about reboot loops etc....

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

I know that it is impossible for the list to be full. It was made just for a very rough comparison with the PR1.1 (from bugzilla point of view).

I thought that it is clear that this thread is about *rumours* and *assumptions* - so I've decided to jump-in in the fun.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

i have to agree with this comment. nokia maps for the last 2 or more years, n95 to n97 has been a turn by turn sat nav and map application now to say where did it say turn by turn/ voice navigation for n900 is silly becuase the brand/app "nokia maps" provides turn by turn with alot of other things...

is nokia missleading comsumers? becuase this woud be the case, common sense would agree

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

there is a workaround for this. flask emmc then firmware with lastest version and i think people have done this as it gives them excuse to install global firmware :)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

@Andre: OK, I'll put it as simple as I can. What I'm trying to say here is Nokia should make an official statement clearing all the doubts, so people waiting for a specific functionality can say:

- OK, I need it badly so will sell the phone and get another one...
- OK, It will be on board eventualy so I can wait some time more...

It just frustrates me more & more. Even Sygic app is being held 3 month already and NOT EVEN ONE WORD from Nokia why it has gone that way.

Am I expecting that much?

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Is Sygic owned by Nokia, or why do you expect Nokia to comment why another company does not offer its app?
(Disclaimer: I had to google "Sygic" so I have no clue about that company/service.)

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

ah ok now i understand, yeh symbian has been doing it for few years paid untill recently free

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

No, but sygic has given a fully functional software to Nokia at the beginning on 2010 and it is on hold ever since. Moreover, some kind of agreement between Nokia and Sygic tied their hands and they are unable to sell it themselves.

And again, Nokia kills us with nothing but silence.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Sygic submitted their program to the ovi store... which can't release it due payment problems...

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Maybe because there is no voice in n900 yet that's why they haven't realesed it

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

@Andre, you have been consistent on all your comments and thanks for your working managing bugs for Maemo, but regarding Sygic application availability the issue is very clear, Nokia is still having difficulties to set up Ovi Store for paid content. Not only Sygic but other developers are being impacted since they can't sell their content until Store get out of Beta...

Sygic is telling its potential customers that they already sent their application to Nokia's approval since early January, and N900 users who need turn-by-turn navigation are waiting for it.

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

GPS navigation applications in general do not have speech synthesizers, it is just a bunch of pre-recorded phrases like "turn left", "straight ahead" and so on... Both voices and maps files are common between Symbian and Maemo Ovi Maps (we could transfer the maps using Map Loader even it officially supported N900, and there is an option to transfer the voices as well).

Re: Speculation about the next firmware (PR1.2) and its release date
 

Okay, thanks for the info as I don't track the Ovi Store development or its problems. Hmm. Nokia. Sigh...