maemo.org - Talk - Apple iPad

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- - Apple iPad (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42442)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 504417)

What will replace it?

Haven't you heard of the new magic word HTML5? Yeah, whenever you say that Flash have no real replacement people will shout at you - HTML5! Of course, if those people actually bothered to read what HTML5 is, and if they would only know what Flash is, they'd keep their mouth shut. But, since the internet is populated by parrots, HTML5 is the word we'll hear in much greater occurrence in the future. Ignorance, truly is bliss!

Of course, the mere facts that HTML5 won't be fully implemented for years to come, that JavaScript is stuck with ECMAScript consortium not being able to make a decision for years and thus making it still a prototype based language with useless JIT execution, that every browser differently implements DOM and CSS, that there is no strict markup (XHTML tried that, and failed), that even the fastest JSVMs cannot beat, or in some cases come even close to AVM2 in almost all programming tasks, that no self-respecting developer will develop complex things in a non-strict typed language with no decent debugger and profiler, that there is no solution for vector-based animation, that HTML/JS is a decade behind Flash when it comes to connectivity, that... all those facts shouldn't stop people praising HTML5 as the next Messiah that will never come.

All praise HTML5. All praise the savior of the interwebs! :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebski (Post 504530)

A case in point here is the Disney.go.com page. On my iPhone it looks fine and perfectly acceptable for what I might want to do. On my Windows 7 laptop and Firefox 3.6 it tells me that I need the latest version of Flash. So now I have to jump through hoops to access the page.

So, you have a problem with developers, not the technology. The list of badly developed HTML pages is at least ten times longer than of those created in, or utilizing Flash. Does that mean that HTML sucks (well, it does, but that's a whole other subject)? The list of badly developed C++ applications is even more staggering, does that mean that C++ sucks and that it needs to die?

Flash is a technology like any other - how people will choose to implement it is their problem. Bad developers develop bad things, no matter of the technology. Blame the developers!

The ipad has made me realise that I could probably use a tablet at times, (laying in bed, too lazy to sit at the computer while the wife is watching tv etc) but not this one. If it hadn't of been released I would probably still be content with my N900 and laptop. Maybe competitors should thank apple for that as I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forphucsake (Post 504610)

Yes laying in bed watching a movie or reading would be great, but I find the 10" screen size too big. 5 is probably about right. I think Archos have tried to push it to 7"? And what do you do if you fall asleep in bed watching or reading something ? I would be worried about the iPad breaking, while the N900 is very solid - I know from experience!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 504602)

Ignorance definitely is bliss, it seems. Mozilla has already stated that they are not willing/able to support the cost of HTML5 + H.264 as a licensee - read more here.

$5 Million a year. HTML5 has been coming for over 5 years and native H.264 playback on licensed/Webkit browsers represent about 10% of the browsers out there. Yeah, it's setting the world ablaze.

Quote:

Of course, the mere facts that HTML5 won't be fully implemented for years to come, that JavaScript is stuck with ECMAScript consortium not being able to make a decision for years and thus making it still a prototype based language with useless JIT execution, that every browser differently implements DOM and CSS, that there is no strict markup (XHTML tried that, and failed), that even the fastest JSVMs cannot beat, or in some cases come even close to AVM2 in almost all programming tasks, that no self-respecting developer will develop complex things in a non-strict typed language with no decent debugger and profiler, that there is no solution for vector-based animation, that HTML/JS is a decade behind Flash when it comes to connectivity, that... all those facts shouldn't stop people praising HTML5 as the next Messiah that will never come.

I don't have an argument with this. But let's face it. Complaining about what's popular without providing an option for things that people do quite regularly is pretty much... saying a lot, doing nothing. Not a good place to find yourself.

Options should exist, but they don't. Not inexpensively enough for licenses nor in full functionality. Not yet at least. Who knows what the next year might hold. Heck, even Gordon might pull the SVG+JS conversion from Flash and hush up some folks.

[quote]All praise HTML5. All praise the savior of the interwebs! :rolleyes:[quote]

Wow.

Quote:

Erm, you couldn't be more wrong.

I have no problem with the developers nor the technology. I have a problem with the lack of viable competition.

Oh... and I also program in C++ too. Forgot that. So it dies... so does a portion of my income.

Quote:

Flash is a technology like any other - how people will choose to implement it is their problem. Bad developers develop bad things, no matter of the technology. Blame the developers!

Even though you didn't quote me; I think the part where I said that Disney, and others, should put the blame where the problem lies - implicitly, the developers and their choices. A site should have different vectors to enter and utilize the site - I'm not even going to mention stuff like 508 compliance - if need be. Things should degrade nicely.

But to rant, rave about killing Flash - there's been so many Flash killers to date that I've officially given up counting (JavaFX, Silverlight 1, 2 and 3... SVG, that Japanese vector animation program stuff (lord I forgot the name) among others...) and I'm just getting started.

HTML5 isn't gonna save jackcrap. Not in the next few months, perhaps in the next few years it'll be where it needs to be in regards to UX/UI and video. Heck, they can't even get CSS3 finalized. Nor XML 1.1.

Oh well... H.264 drops the $5 million per year license, it'll get adopted by Mozilla.

As I have said before, Flash is so easy to use as a developer. I made my first game when I was 8 YEARS old. I still don't understand HTML or Javascript to the extent that I can make a graphically intense game in a reasonable amount of time.

Flash is also a great platform for simple DRM. My mom (family business) publishes all her worksheets in flash, which allows domain checking, printing, anti-copying, etc, without having the user jump through hoops or stupid **** like that. Something like the iPad would be great to view these worksheets, but because there is no flash, oh well... And until recently making an iPhone app was out of the question, because no one in my family had a Mac or iPhone, (Hakintosh + Dad's 3GS changes that). If it freaking supported Flash this would not be a problem. Oh, and all our games are flash also (some java, but converting them to flash).

Do we use flash for ******ed things like navigation? No, we use PHP and HTML.

Flash just works. Thats why it is so popular. It does not matter if you are on crappy IE5 or Chrome, it just works the same way. Lets see if HTML5 works on IE5... oh wait it does not...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerbick (Post 504681)

But to rant, rave about killing Flash - there's been so many Flash killers to date that I've officially given up counting (JavaFX, Silverlight 1, 2 and 3... SVG, that Japanese vector animation program stuff (lord I forgot the name) among others...) and I'm just getting started.

HTML5 isn't gonna save jackcrap. Not in the next few months, perhaps in the next few years it'll be where it needs to be in regards to UX/UI and video. Heck, they can't even get CSS3 finalized. Nor XML 1.1.

Oh well... H.264 drops the $5 million per year license, it'll get adopted by Mozilla.

Ugh, I thought it was clear from my post that I was being sarcastic :rolleyes:

To be clear: There is no Flash killer on the market, there never will be until the web is defined as it is (arbitrary HTML/CSS + week and slow to obsolescence scripting that is JavaScript). 99% of all the problems that people have with Flash on the web is due to developer incompetence, not due to the technology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwer (Post 504808)

Ugh, I thought it was clear from my post that I was being sarcastic

Noted. But you know by now that sarcasm doesn't go over well via the internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thesandlord (Post 504692)

...Flash is so easy to use as a developer.

Bingo! QuickTime 3, as ancient as it is, met or exceeded Flash's capabilities until just a few years ago, but few web developers ever used QuickTime for anything beyond simple video playback. Superior features lost to development simplicity. Macromedia Flash (the application) was less expensive, more widely available, better known, and easier to pick up and use than LiveStage Pro.

Even if HTML5 becomes a viable Flash competitor technically, it will take one heck of a good, free, multi-platform, point-and-click development application for it to compete with Flash already coming right along with Photoshop and Illustrator in Adobe's product suites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pel (Post 501110)

I read somewhere that Apple is trying to get the networks to drop their TV episode prices. There is even talk of a cable-like monthly subscription price where a bundle of shows/channels can be had for a single monthly uplift.

I never bought an iPod, although we did recently for our kids. In fact, aside from that, I don't think I've ever purchased original anything from Apple, although I've owned a number of second-hand macs over the years.

But I may break that taboo with this device. I've been a closet Apple fan and have used Macs off and on since mid 80's.

I want to casually read websites, books, newspapers, maybe flip through pics, watch some vids, from my couch, bed, or on my lap on the train/bus ride in to work. I want a handwriting note-taker. And, I want it to "just work" well, smoothly, and then have access to bunch of other attendant apps.

I'm a big keyboard guy (unix admin), but you really have to be committed to a certain frame of mind when you go to the keyboard.

There is another frame of mind, however, when you're simply reading, writing, and "exploring". It's one of deep introspection. This is the device for that. Any device that centers around a computer and keyboard does not take that other frame of mind into consideration, and that's why this device is appealing.

I think technologists are offended by this device, because it's not really for them. I mean, they can use it and enjoy it, but it's not a technologist's tinkerer hobby device, and that's why they don't like it.

iPods and iPhones were small enough to be relegated to an also-ran device. This is probably the first device that threatens the technologist's hold on computing devices, because people who just want to use computers as a means to an end can actually use this thing for most of their screen-time now (TV viewing and gaming aside, at least at first).

It's actually quite healthy for well-formed individuals, now that I think about it. It will probably encourage more book-reading and handwriting.

I do video and Web design. So I understand and appreciate my workstation that are built for that. I also admin many macs with open source tools and hit the terminal regularly. But I see exactly where Apple (and others) are going with this. Simply put a lot of people simply don't get it. I won't argue with them.

On Flash: after that post on the Flash blog was shown that only two of the sites in question were wholly dependent on Flash I'm surprised anyone "in the know" is still making the "what will replace flash" argument. CNN, NYT, Youtube and the now infamous Bang Bros sites all accessible without flash. Hulu has dumb execs who tried to block Boxee because of some nebulous threat to it's bottom line will try to hold out. but when millions of their customers are on devices that cannot access their website lets see what they do.