Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? -testing? i386? What works where?
 

I mean specifically, what is the "Diablo" repository and how is it different from "fremantle?"

I'm trying to be careful with what I do to my N900 here, but at the same time I want to explore what is available for it. I know about the warnings associated with downloading from extras-testing and extras-devel, so there's no need to repeat those here for me.


While I'm on this topic, I'd like to take the time to adress something that's been on my mind. Namely, that I find the whole setup and process of exploring what is available for downloading onto my N900 - by using the maemo site - very confusing and off-putting - and I am not the type who gets confused or put off very easily!

I enjoy reading these boards, and I appreciate all the back-and-forth about different devices, their strengths and weaknesses. I for one appreciate the position of the N900, precisely because of its openness, as opposed to the "commercially bound-up" approach of Apple products, to give a common example.

However, if Nokia, and the MAEMO team, and even the regular power users that frequent these forums, really had it in their hearts to put their money where their mouth is, and offer a product that provided freedom from the typically commercialized products that are the alternatives to the Nokia N900 (Android, iPhone, etc), then they would make the entire process of browsing, exploring, and applying applications to the N900 a much more available and user-friendly process.

Sorry to raise my voice, but I didn't want this point to get lost in all that I had to say. The repositories as they currently exist are cryptic, labyrinthine, and opaque. And by that I mean both browsing them on a computer and as they are listed for download in the applications area on the N900.

A little more description of what the item is, how it works and what it does, a little more support in terms of use, a few illustrations or screenshots - these are standards that most people are accustomed to just about anywhere you go on the web, but are strangely lacking on the Maemo site.

Again, I'm sorry to sound like I'm lecturing the site-ops or coders/uploaders of apps here, because everything they do is appreciated by all of us. But would it be too much to ask for a little more user-friendly approach to fixing up our N900's the way we like, in the spirit of freedom that is the raison-detre of the N900 (as I see it), without having to be an experienced Linux user?

I expect I will be told the party line, that "if you don't know what you're doing, you should stay out of the repositories", but I think that is a weak excuse and just another example of exclusionary thinking. If the N900 is about freedom of use for its owners, then it should be made more accessible, not less, to make that freedom of use a reality. And when I cannot even find a simple explanation of what the different repositories mean, that makes me feel that the "freedom" is only for a particular group who has the knowledge already, with no effort being made to assist those new to the means and methods that get used on a site like this. And that isn't much like freedom.

Re: Pls explain the different repositories?
 

Diablo is the latest operating system version for the N800 and N810. Fremantle is the current operating system version for the N900. So, use Fremantle for your Maemo 5 N900 installations. Ignore Diablo.

Re: Pls explain the different repositories?
 

Thank you for the clear explanation. It is what I had assumed, after somewhat lengthy trail-and-error investigation.

It certainly would have been nice to have seen some sort of correlation between that (again) cryptic name, and the downloads section available here onsite. Just a simple mention would have saved a lot of time and confusion in the long run.

Re: Pls explain the different repositories?
 

Certainly you should not "stay out of the repositories", but what does it have to do with freedom when beginners are told to avoid the development repository for their own good?

The only repository that beginners would actually enjoy using is listed on the N900 by default. They don't need to come here and read anything. However, if you actually start reading the development documentation, you will very quickly understand how the releases are named.

You had a good point about longer explanations and screenshots, but that's it.

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? What works where?
 

What about -testing? I would think that would be somewhat safer territory for a new user.

Maybe you could decode this for me
http://maemo.org/packages/repository/

What's the difference between free and non-free? Or i386 and armel? Should I care? I see almost-but-not-quite-the-same lists in any given repository that differs only by those suffixes. Why is that?

And thank you for yielding to my point about descriptions and screenshots. It's no small point, I feel.

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? -testing? i386? What works where?
 

Free should be software that meets Debian's definition of free (source code available and with a license permitting modification and redistribution), and non-free is anything else (still free to download, but with other restrictions).

i386 is software compiled for Intel x86 compatible processors, whereas armel is software compiled for the ARM compatible processors. The two are not compatible, so only armel packages can be installed on the N900.

Somewhat safer, yes. The only people intended to be using this are those who've read the testing instructions and are prepared to work through the testing checklist and vote for/against tested packages, ensuring that any valid packages get pushed into the standard catalogue.

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? What works where?
 

I'd like to add that i386/armel/free/non-free are not Maemo-specific, so they may not be thoroughly explained in the documentation for that reason. It's "common knowledge". Is the N900 your first Linux computer?

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? What works where?
 

Thanks Rob1n for clear, concise answers.

oldpmaguy: You don't need to worry about the packages because you're using the repository. Only appropriate packages for your device and OS will be installed as long as you don't enable inappropriate repositories. It's the reason why we encourage a clear warning with a link to the Extras-testing and Extras-devel repository wiki pages whenever someone tells users to enable one of those repos.

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? What works where?
 

Normal "end users" should not need to worry about repositories at all, for browsing around isn't the downloads section of maemo.org a good way ? The .install files (click the big green arrow) will launch the application manager and take care of the rest (or at least did when I last used them on N8x0, and then the repository problem was much larger since *many* programs we're served from the developers private repository). When you browse the downloads section with your device you will get the correct category by default and on PC it defaults to Maemo5 (since it's what the n900 runs)

There is going to be a new application manager that will talk with maemo.org downloads section (to get screenshots, reviews, and other info not available in the standard information provided by packages in the repository itself), in fact it's in the testing repo (or maybe devel) already (naturally at the moment it should only be used by people who are prepared to reflash their device in case of trouble)

Re: Repositories and Downloads confusing! Fremantle? Diablo? OS2008? What works where?
 

Heh. I've been using Linux on desktops, notebooks, and servers since 1993, and it wasn't until I bought an N800 in 2007 that I experienced DEBs or repositories. I'm still finding my way with them. Binary packages are...unsettling.

Really though, for general end-user use, the Application Manager hides all the mumbo jumbo well. That's why I don't know the command line tools well yet; I don't need to.