Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I guess this is why the hungry man was hungry...
I'm just sad :'(

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

No cure, no pay is whats works in my world.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I have now read the complete http://www.neopwn.com/release.php

What I can read from it is good news and bad news.

I read: Free Open Source doesn't work. Its gonna be free but that we cant afford that, so you will have to pay but we wont take your money. We will take your money before a private non announced beta stage.


Why not just make this software 20€ (or whatever €, $ or £ because that's what we are talking about) and forget about Utopia and Free HQ Open Source?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

BackTrack is free. BackTrack Mobile will be free. The SAME people that create and support BackTrack are trying to fit Mobile in, but it's VERY time consuming - and these guys have real day jobs, families and other commitments.

Sign up for the beta, HELP with developing/testing (in any way you can) and then you can ***** about it if you still don't enjoy the process.

Until then, just stop.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I don't have a ton of money but would not mind helping with the beta testing in some way (even if packet injection is not included)

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

:) and yo are gonna scream HELP for free all the way til the project is dead and buried, no matter what?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Very well said, Hawaii.

I am still hoping for some sort of release of this at some point in the future.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Inidrog, not all of us are as unable to make the "utopia" of free high-quality opensource software work as you are. It's not a utopia, it exists, it happens all the time, it's happening around you on this very forum. You may not be the kind of person who could motivate themselves to work for free in your spare time for the good of others, and the majority of the people out there might fit into the same category, but there's enough people out there that high quality open source stuff can and does happen.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

You just talked me into not sending a mail to the developers offering money to speed things up. Thanks I'l wait and hope for a quick free and HQ release. And "I will gladly help in testing or making icons, just contact me"

:D

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

If me being somewhat asinine in disagreeing with you about the principle of high quality open source software being possible without money is enough for you to not want to contribute financially to a completely unrelated to me project, I have to wonder how much you cared about doing it in the first place.

I get that moods and states of mind can be rather significantly altered by other people's hostilities, but I think if you're at all solidly convinced of your own intentions and/or desires, and the motives underlying them, there's no reason why only tangentically related arguments with me should alter that. *Shrug* Up to you.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

sad sad news :(

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Why don't they release the patched wlan drivers anyway?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

@ChadiM:

because they want us to focus on their project, we hope for it being free (as they tell us), we hope for their release dates and guess what.. open-source will be closed-source, free os will be paid os, project release date will be pushed further away each week and stupid excuses will be given.

It's easy to think that something good can't be true for free. It will be either good and paid, or crap and free. I'm going with good & paid (& released somewhere near 3050)

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I am not sure I understand all this thread. Backtrack is free and good. This is the obvious evidence that free software can be great. If any of you disagree why are you arguing on a forum talking about its implementation on the N900...
Regarding the implementation it self, I would love to have packet injection, however using backtrack to crack wep key is a little bit under the capabilities of such great piece of software.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I want to clear some of the air.

First off, the project merger with BT had come about under the impression that there would be a small dev team behind it. Unfortunately, those whom were to be involved were very busy with their lives to contribute anything.

I am and have been the sole developer for the project. I have developed 1000% of everything, less the driver on my own. That was not what I wanted. I made a commitment to do this project, and have spent hundreds of hours to make it happen, picking up the slack of others - ensuring that the development wheel remain spinning.

As most others, I have full time 9-5 (+ overtime) employment obligations and a family. I have dedicated most all of my spare time into testing, cross-compiling, scripting, coding, debugging, and pushing the theoretical envelope in developing this project. Putting this project before family in the few spare hours I have outside of my full-time job is my only regret.

I'm obligated to pay the developers that are contracted to provide elements of this project. Since things have changed, and there isn't any other real help in sight (plus the fact that all 2 of you donated $20), I'm forced to develop at a realistic pace and offer those that have been emailing me left and right over the last 4 months, a pre-configured beta release on microSD. I'm not going to build many of these, but they will have the same thing I have on my phone.

When the beta is fit to be considered a final, meaning that all of the design tasks are implemented and a SAFE and viable installation method has been created, the final objective will be to let the masses have at it. Until then, it is what it is.

Closing thoughts

For those of you that feel as if I owe you something, guess what? I do not. I'm praised in emails for my efforts, but at the same time, I'm reading a lot of garbage being said about me and my project. The latter gives me less motivation to invest time to develop something for you to download at your leisure.

If you negative people still have something negative to say after reading this, you can hire your own engineers and develop your own fscking OS if you think you are capable.

All I can say is be patient. I'm skimming through some of the emails I have received by those offering development support and will reach out to them to build a core dev team as soon as I have a beta setup in a week or two, and will invite them into the Redmine project as their skillsets dictate.

++

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Thank you for clarifying the situation. I quite understand the difficulties but there has been no real call for donations either here or by email to those who subscribed - had there been I am sure that you would have received significantly more than you have.

Is there any reason that the donations field of neopwn.com has been dropped? If you still need to pay people then I am sure that a fair number of people on this forum would like to contribute.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

i was going to donate to this project when complete but it seems it is to late for that im sure alot of people would donate if it help to get you back on track with developing this further

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

@Neopwn:
first of all let me thank you for your posts (here and on neopwn site). I perfectly understand your feelings and difficulties if having found yourself the only person behind a huge (at least from my very own point of view) project.

I'm among those who (guilty) didn't send you a penny, but as hellnick said, there wasn't any public call for donations ( sorry if that's untrue). Also, from an enduser point of view the project looked more like a "professional" service with enough people behind in order to get things done. This, I think, was a fault on both sides, mine and "your". A lack of communications on your side and a lack of interest on my side. Again, sorry for that. By the way, I think there is no reason to keep complaining and regretting. Just move ahead! Both of us! And whoever is *really* interested in having this project working.

I'd be more than happy to (seriously) help and support/endorse the project.
Drop me a line if you are interested.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Yacketi-Yacketi-Yacketi-Yack. Bla bla bla. Yada yada yada.

I call bollocks on you neopwn. And on your project. I've been an OS supporter for a number of years, a dedicated user, and an understanding contributor. More than anything, I understand the need to feed a family, but you're going a bit too far.

There's open source, and then there's vaporware. When you released the teasers, I was a happy camper. I finally felt that we were getting somewhere, and praised your word on multiple media. Now, you're sounding more and more like a snake oil salesman. Sorry.

You're moaning that nobody donated? You never asked for it, and never gave us anything so we would. You're moaning that Open Source devs are shallow and can't commit in the long run? What cave have you been living in? You never asked for help, so don't cry when you run out of steam.

Nobody (except for the parties involved) knows what happened between you and the BT devs. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, we can't smell despair. Especially when you don't communicate.

Do you want help from some of the greatest minds in this community, with regards to things such as (but not limited to) project management, donation hunting, coding, packaging, installer development? Then dump your work on an FTP, or bittorent, dump your code and documentation on gitorious, and watch it take off and fly uninterrupted around the world. You will have hordes of supporters and contributors, and you won't have to manage all of it and burn out as you just did.

You decided to do this. You decided to do it on your own. You decided to think everyone who lays hands on whatever you've created is a ***** and will blow up a nuke plant nearby. You put yourself in this mess, so please at least have the courtesy to accept that.

Also accept the nearly unlimited help you would receive if you were to open up. I know MohammadAG and I were nearly checking daily for something. MohammadAG is exactly the kind of guy you could use, but you're spitting in everyone and their brother's face by behaving like this.

You want to share your microsd? Use dd and share it. You want to make a few bucks? Then say so. Be frigging honest.

Anyone can create the teasers you've created. How the hell do you expect us to take you seriously. For all we know, the MAC changing feature just modifies a field in Qt. The bash script just uses wait and prints whatever you want it to. There's no proof that you've accomplished anything. Feel free to join IRC to discuss this further.

Again, I call bollocks.

PS: You're the one who promised and didn't deliver, so yes, you owe us. Those who donated got conned. Don't mount your high-horse now. You're a fraud, nothing less, nothing more. I'm serious about this. There is a lot to be done, but it is nothing if you allow others to help. Open up and move on.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

well, despite being somehow "rude", CrashandDie points aren't wrong. As I said in my previous post, NeoPwn didn't looked like an *open* project but more like a professional service.
That's true, just letting ppl download and try the actual alpha/beta/whatever could greatly change how ppl feel about this project and, most likely, more people will be attracted and interested in contributing.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

This is all just plain nonsense.

So lets just try to clear some FACTS first, doing an historical review of the last weeks...

1) Exciting announcement about the great NeoPwn2 for N900 coming soon. Most remarkable fact is the explicit mention to packet injection driver, which until now I still have to see someone offer some proof of achievement... But hey, this comes from the BT guys so it must be true and it will come soon!

2) In fact it will come BEFORE BlackHat/Defcon! Awesome! I will be checking the site every day!

3) Just to clear any doubts, NeoPwn posts here that the project is and it will always be an free open project. Great, I almost would prefer to pay something and not having to wait till BlackHat/Defcon but hey, its a free project, so I will just have to wait and perhaps I will donate afterwards anyways.

4) The screenshots are nothing special, and the video is not much different to others I have seen posted by people that thought packet injection was working when in fact it really wasn't.... Anyways... they SAY there's packet injection and thats all I need, if they also do the effort of porting the very few apps that are still missing for arm debian and adding a smart gui, that is a plus.

5) I must confess that when the web site stopped working for several days I thought.... What if they THOUGHT they had injection working and suddenly they discover they don't or that it isn't stable at all and come to a dead end?

6) When the deadline ends, he posts a bunch of excuses blaming other people and the community in general for the lack of support... What support? What did YOU expect?

Either it is all just ******** or you are REALLY WRONG.

Wrong in not dealing all of this other way if that's what you really wanted. At this time, from "the community" point of view you just made a grand announcement and afterwards you just default on it and blame the community... Nothing in between, no requests, no mention of your (even if wrong) expectations, N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

Free open source software is great, but there are many other models that are just as legit. Plain old commercial software is one of them. Not free, not commercial, not anything is another one: Vaporware.

And no, that is not when someone request you to add some features to your software and you don't, it's just what it comes when you announce/promise something great and when the time comes it is far from the promised.

I hate to need to read between the lines, and for sure I may be wrong, but when NeoPwn blames the lack of developers support AND expressely mentions that he did NOT develop the packet injection driver I would bet that:

.
1-) Considering also, that he didn't publicly ask for devs help, he needs to be referring to some specific individuals. Someone promised to have the packet injection driver already working or to have it finished in ...a few days I am sure!... but then, after the grand public announcement, **** happens.

2-) He certainly spent hundreds of hours porting most of the tools included in BT, coding a proper smart interface, etc... But he considers that all that is incomplete without the packet injection driver so lets just make some awful excuses, try to blame the community for being unsupportive, etc... He will, if anything, publish his uncomplete (as per initial promises) project but there won' be any packet injection driver (because the author doesn't want to publish it or whatever excuse) UNLESS someone finally comes up with it first.

Again, I may be wrong, but this is the most logical explanation I can find for all this nonsense.

If nothing more, in all scenarios you are culprit at least of being WRONG in your dealing of all this big announcement thing.

Sorry for my poor english and the long post, but I just wanted to express my feeling about something that have really dissapointed me after all this expectation.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Thanks for all your hard work! Despite the users here that are bound to be angry at you and yet have never developed/ported anything of their own, your efforts are certainly not unappreciated. If you start taking donations again, I'd be more than happy to throw some money your way.

I would also be happy to test any beta builds of the chroot environment or individual components, I have the capability to set up almost any attack scenario using my own equipment. Beyond the ability to fix distro quirks needed to port software I'm not very good at development, but I'd be willing to assist in any way that I can.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Has neopwn ported/delivered yet something? I haven't seen anything (except the videos)
What if this was all fake? Take donations and never deliver? Not a bad idea...

Community @ neopwn: "Muahahahahah!"

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Backtrack is real. NeoPwn V1 is real. Why wouldn't this?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

For this reason, I was planning to donate *After* at least the Beta was released. And I'm sure many other users planned the same as well.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Guys, why not just let this thread die?
If something comes of it later on then great. If not then, whatever.

Though if someone does manage to get hold of this supposed 'injection driver' then feel free to release it.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Switching gears for a minute...

Can we simply copy some of the text-only (CLI) programs/scripts from the full BackTrack version to the Easy Debian environment (chroot) on the N900 and run them?

I understand the GUI stuff of course would not work, but what if we just try copying the command-line programs? Any ideas?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I'm also done with this thread.

You are some of the most daft people I have ever encountered. You want it all, and don't want to put any effort in. Simply based on the shite community in THIS thread, I'm glad that the project is in a stalemate position. I hope some of you never get access to it.

Having said that, it will come out, and when it does you will all tuck your tails and walk away.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

You got some sand somewhere? There have been some rude comments on this thread but the vast majority have been supportive. If you are "done" with a thread then just unsubscribe and stop reading it, don't waste my time with your sanctimonious claptrap.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

That's true... Maybe the rest could have been left out... :D

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

hawii **** off for making us happy at first and then proving that the whole project was f*** lie . gtfo

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

as someone else mentioned before, u own us cause u were the one who announced and promise in the first place

u gave us nothing so why can donate and contribute. Perhaps u made some self discussions. u lack of communication and marketing abilities.

i wanted to donate and help when suddenly i read these bad news u caught us offgard.

i hope things will change again. so we can show our support as a community

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Showing support isn't only about donating. It's the exact opposite of what this thread has become. You've all gone from being excited and filled with discussion, to *****ing and moaning about a postponed release when you yourselves have done *nothing whatsoever* to aid in the project.

You all want the bread, but don't want to help make it.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

at least i hope it is only postponed and that this project isnt going to die. some days ago u announced an close upcoming release . Where is it mentioned that a release is only to be delayed. the main developer and u are dissapointed by our support (wich u never asked) impling that the project might die . our frustration normal...


plz tell me how and i will help , i realy want this project to happen

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

First, and with all due respect, I have to ask if you can speak for NeoPwn.

My doubt comes from the clear inconsistencies between

and some of yours postings, for example:

Anyway, considering all the posted missinformation about the project I supposse inconsistencies are very reasonable. So, if you can, why don't you just explain what sort of support you guys need? Porting apps? Great, which ones are left to do? Integration of the tools? GUIs?... What?

I have only read about a "proper installer", ok, that's something I (and I am sure many others too) could help with. There's not much information about the current real state of the project, but from what I can supposse what you would need is an installer of the image file that also carries some smart configuration and integration with the underlaying maemo OS, isn't it? There must be some conmplexities for sure, or otherwise It would be a simple matter of a couple hours of good old shell scripting.

But if you don't tell, if you don't even tell that there's some help needed/welcomed how do you expect anything to come?

And no, its not the same as expecting something that has been ANNOUNCED/PROMISED, but unlike others I don't think NeoPwn owes anyone ANYTHING.

If I had came here announcing the same, without giving any proof, everybody would have just laugh and call it Vaporware (or worse), and nothing else had happenned.

But when someone who has a known credibility does, people have a natural tendency to trust because that someone is risking that credibility... so it must be true.

In the end, its just credibility lost, but again nothing else owed.

And here is where the real nonsense is... All this was a predecible sequence of events in which NeoPwn had nothing to gain.

And the excuses given add to that nonsense because it just doesn't make sense with the previous sequence of events (complaining about unrequested support, long undetermined new deadline when the previous one was announced very shortly before defaulting, keep on the line of NOT REQUESTING nor giving the POSSIBILITY to support the project in any specific way, etc.... just excuses and complaints...).

When you keep working on a project for several months, and you announce that it is almost finished for beta testing and give a deadline in just a couple of weeks, and also keep saying everything is going perfect during that time, don't come the "big day" and make up a bunch of absurdities you should already have noticed LOOOOOOONG time ago if these were the true reasons.

Also, it is not very wise to blame others absolutely unaware of the behind the scenes troubles for your fault.

I am sorry if in the 20 days I have had my N900 I haven't been able to offer anything useful... I don't even know if I ever will, in spite of my intentions. Anyway, I haven't announced/promised anything either, with or without INTENTIONALLY creating any great expectations at all.

Now, I supposse I should feel bad myself for just expressing my surprise and dissapoinment for something I took for granted. And no, it's not NeoPwn project itself, it was mainly the big announcement about packet injection on n900 had been achieved.

And now, after all this nonsense I have my concerns mostly about that point.

From your postings it seems that you have been closely involved somehow with NeoPwn project, and also that at this time you feel that all the bunch of beggers don't deserve it.

Fair to me... But I have just one question: Have you PERSONALLY confirmed the existance of a properly working packet injection driver for wl1251 on N900?

I don't request ANY proofs, a simple answer from you would suffice to me.

Why? Because apart from radically differing with you in my opinion about all this matter, I have to say that some of your posts and blog entries have been very ilustrating to me and for that I have to give you my thanks and credibility.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Really? I think people beating the death horse thing about not supporting. Bottomline is he didn't ask for help nor requested he need more donations. So ask not won't not. People can't hear what you don't say. Not matter how rude people think crashanddie post is that post pretty much was 100 on most points. In the short time I've been on this forum I've seen some serious apps that made my mouth watered that I would'nt even dream of on a winmo site. We have great people and support so if he want help here it is neopwn choice to use it or not. But please all the brown nosing posts about people not wanting to help when help was not requested is like saying New Orleans waited a week before they said hey FEMA we need some help rebuilding our city. So one or two things will happen neopwn will come and post asking for help with this project or he will continue working alone on his own time. Those people are the only choice out there right now. So live with it cause I sure have. And thanks neopwn for making it this far with your software.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

@appnss; I do not speak for NeoPwn, BackTrack or ANY affiliate organizations. This is my personal opinion only.

The project is continuing, but as I said and the developer re-iterated in his post, there are many other things that take precedence - work and family, among other things. It's a side project.

From what I knew, it was a project than went from a few developers (with OpenMoko) to getting backed by the BackTrack team and then as things progressed, the poster 'neopwn' had to dig up and take over the work. These guys are real people, who have full time jobs, families and other responsibilities. You can't honestly expect him to go full-steam and producing a side-hobby for what is clearly a lot of ingrates who can't really begin to understand the scope of this project.

As for "promising and not delivering" - when exactly did a promise of a public release go out? Did an announcement take place about a specific date it would be released to the public? Did the developer completely halt the project? Is the developer not RIGHT HERE giving his reasons and an explanation for any delay?

Yet you're still here, berating the efforts to create a MOBILE PENETRATION TESTING DISTRIBUTION FOR YOUR PHONE because it's not as fast as you want it to be.

I'd also like to ask, since the majority of you clearly don't have the skills to even assist in the upstart of such a project - what exactly do you need this distribution for? The packages that come with the distribution are freely available for you to get running on your own hardware. You can compiling something, right?

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate it and glad my blog and posts were of use to you.

I, personally, have not used the wl12xx driver that allows live frame injection. However, I can safely stake my "reputation" behind my word, that it does exist. I have a sneaking suspicious on who wrote it. And if you doubt the the possibility of its existence - I urge you to take a look at the 50+ RFMON+injection diffs located @ http://patches.aircrack-ng.org/. I can actually remember back in the day when only one chipset had RF monitor mode, specific drivers and tertiary firmware were required to make it work. Now it's stack-controlled and it takes 30 lines of code to allow injection without association. I've been around the block.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

I can prove you 100% that packet injection is working with wl1251. You may know that I have developed the monitor mode patches for wl1251. Some time ago Neopwn asked me to develop packet injection patches for Backtrack Mobile, which I have done at least of my knowledge successfully. There may be some testing and cleanup needed, but the basics are working pretty well.
My current intention is to get a full-featured upstream wl1251 driver in the linux kernel, so compat-wireless can be used as full replacement. Currently it lacks some features which are included in the Maemo Fremantle version.
I also want to note that I am currently not in the position to give anyone access to the packet injection capable driver, because I developed it exclusively for Neopwn.
Furthermore I have recently talked to Neopwn and he is currently working to reorganize the project so he can accept contributions, but that will need some time.

Re: NeoPwn v2 = BackTrack Mobile!
 

If I were a kernel hacker (which I am NOT) I probably wouldn't even have any doubts about the packet injection matter, but I also do remember the not-so-far days when it wasn't possible for wrt54's broadcoms and at least it was still considered unfeasible long after I had switched to atheros platform.

So please understand my concerns after I took that for granted (not really caring if after some longer wait for public release) for the perfect platform I found on N900 and then all this weird situation happens.

I have to thank you again, this time for clearing this out.

I still consider NeoPwn have dealt very wrong with all this situation, but mostly at his cost more than anyone else, which is a pitty considering he probably have already spent a lot of effort on this project.

After failing a big announcement, a negative reaction SHOULD be expected no matter what the cause is, and even more if the excuses sound unreasonable at first instance. Ignoring that, is wanting to feel like the world is against you with no reason, which I think leaves you an even worse feeling than just accepting the LOGICAL reaction and coping with it.

At this point, considering the project is feasible, I would say that any change of approach would be preferable than a dead end, no matter if it means request for specific help, make it commercial app, free with premium paid features, whatever... Sadly, I don't think donations will have any success right now.... perhaps later....

Glad to hear the project is still REALLY alive (which wasn't so clear, as it sounded more as a delayed dead end) and that packet injection will be possible probably more sooner than later. It's more than enough for me.

And again, If there's some help needed I hope NeoPwn isn't afraid of asking even if he decides to make his project somewhat commercial... After seeing what happenned with nessus and still using it, I don't think it really matters at all.