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-   -   What is "piracy" and is it ever justified (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46301)

Fargus 2010-03-03 15:04
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azorni (Post 554047)
Well, I meant : apart from this licence agreement, of course.

I've already wrote that, as long as you agreed to end user license, you gave your word and you have to stick to it.

But it 's a word you gave only because it was required by the seller, I don't see any ethical or economic justification to it.
So basically you think that not keeping your word on something is not ethical or that someone should apply conditions to their supply of goods/services to you? How about I moan that it is unethical of anyone supplying something to me to demand payment (condition)?

fatalsaint 2010-03-03 15:10
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
I like chiming in every half-dozen pages or so for no reason :D.

I personally only write, and use free software. I'm of the crowd software should be free.. support should be paid. That's why I use Linux.

Whether I'm for or against software piracy.... meh. It won't affect me.. I won't make people pay for any software I write... I much prefer donations.. that tells me people actually *liked* my software.. not just paid to see what it does.. And I don't pay for software (read: I don't use pay software) If you make a living selling your software then I truly believe the Linux eco-system is not for you.

Besides... Your software being "free" has it's benefits too.

Movie and Music piracy though... I'm sorry - the *AA charge way to damn much for ****. If I pay $8 to see a movie in a theater I have no issues about getting me a copy of it personally. Paying $8 to see something once is silly. Then, buying a DVD or Blu-ray only to be told I'm not allowed to watch it on my computer or tablet/phone.. only on my "authorized" blu-ray player... even more ludicrous. The failed attempts of "DRM" piss me off more than pirates do.

Flandry 2010-03-03 15:10
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azorni (Post 554035)
No, once again a developer doesn't have to live on selling his programs, but for instance he can do any job where his ability to develop will have value on labour market and would be included in his salary. This job can be "developer", and in that case all his production helps for the general functioning of the firm, and will be paid for that.

Many people do have such a job. A system administrator, for instance, do write some scripts every time, but he doesn't actually sell them.
I missed the part where the (now) externality of cost of development is recouped by the company paying the developer. You've just shifted the cost upstream, outside of the system under consideration, without providing an explanation of how your twisted world view provides any retail software. You might as well state that you think that all software available to the public should be free and then explain how this is viable in a world where software engineers are very few and far between. (As they would be in a world where there is no retail software.)

azorni 2010-03-03 15:12
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargus (Post 554052)
So basically you think that not keeping your word on something is not ethical or that someone should apply conditions to their supply of goods/services to you? How about I moan that it is unethical of anyone supplying something to me to demand payment (condition)?
No. If I am not happy with the conditions I just don't buy, that's all. I don't see your point.

I said that I don't see justifications for these conditions, but still, this is his product, he can sell it with the conditions he wants.

To me it's just as weird as the car seller who wants to sell me a red car, but doesn't want me to paint it in blue.

PS : This is denial of alienation concept, and it's quite incompatible with the very concept of selling. Such a denial of alienation requires the use of law and public force to monitor and check every single commercial transaction not only during actual transaction, but also after transaction and during the whole lifetime of the product. This is awful and vain waste of resource and money.into juridical complexity. I doubt this is something society really benefit from, and therefore I would personally avoid and discourage it.

ysss 2010-03-03 15:13
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
@fatalsaint: yet you still consume the goods even if you don't agree with their practices or pricing? Isn't there something hypocritical about that?

azorni 2010-03-03 15:14
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flandry (Post 554059)
I missed the part where the (now) externality of cost of development is recouped by the company paying the developer. You've just shifted the cost upstream, outside of the system under consideration, without providing an explanation of how your twisted world view provides any retail software. You might as well state that you think that all software available to the public should be free and then explain how this is viable in a world where software engineers are very few and far between. (As they would be in a world where there is no retail software.)
Well in my view there is no such thing as retail software.

But here I must be in troll mode :p

azorni 2010-03-03 15:18
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 554064)
@fatalsaint: yet you still consume the goods even if you don't agree with their practices or pricing? Isn't there something hypocritical about that?
same answer.

I said that I don't see justifications for these conditions, but still, this is his product, he can sell it with the conditions he wants, even if they seem silly to me.

Again, to me it's just as weird as the car seller who wants to sell me a red car, but doesn't want me to paint it in blue.

ysss 2010-03-03 15:19
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
@azorni: sorry, I wasn't addressing you :) I've given up on you a few pages ago.

Fargus 2010-03-03 15:20
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by azorni (Post 554067)
Well in my view there is no such thing as retail software.

But here I must be in troll mode :p
No such thing as retail software? So your earlier posting regarding writing software for the end client directly (bespoke) means that you have no idea of games or DVD's then?

Or maybe if there is no such thing as retail software for you this is an open admission to ripping off all the developers out there by pirating software?

Still no response to the major contribution that this individual makes to the world at large? Must be an extension of the French model for the EU: Leech like hell and moan when you are told to pay your way!

HumanPenguin 2010-03-03 15:20
Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ysss (Post 554026)
I think he's a troll. No one can be that ignorant/unsmart.
I currently work in a FE college.

Sorry to disalusion you. But you are very very wrong.

We have an advert out atm that looks like this
-----

Course A (Free)
Course B (Free)
Course C
Course D
Course E
---

You would be stuned how much time I spend trying to explain that we have no funding for courses C-E.

"But the advert says free"


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