maemo.org - Talk - What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

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Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77h (Post 554336)

...
Don't make assumptions about other people or companies if you don't have the data.

Well you did this by stating earlier that piracy is good for developers!

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrojas (Post 554335)

Many options, but once again, if you develop something, isn't it yours to decide what to do with it?

Absolutely, it's just that when you say 'charge for it' most people will make the pay X$ -> get Y.exe connection and not consider the very valid alternatives you listed - which may or may not be better for a particular application/service. This is especially important for the N900 as it has no DRM -> the alternative business models are MUCH more appealing than the classic store one. This also one of the problems with Ovi and the N900. It was conceived as an AppStore alternative and has little to no support for alternative business models which COULD be clean and viable. No subscriptions, no service-based payments, no donations, no support payments, etc.

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Piracy CAN be good for developers - I apologise

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatalsaint (Post 554338)

Lets look at the support center of any major business.

How many users call Dell technical support with their computer? Now.. that's not the *only* method Dell uses to make money, since Dell charged you for the computer too, but they do make a *substantial* amount of money just from their technical support division.

What about Adobe? Don't they have a support division as well? Don't they sell support?

Companies will always like to pay other companies to do what they could hire someone to do themselves. That's just the way it is.. and the reason why I hate working as an SA at so many companies. "Did you open a ticket?".. WTF? Why am I here then? Get a damned high-schooler to sit at your desk here and phone Microsoft every time a blip appears on the screen if that's what you want. Don't pay me silly amounts of money to be a messenger boy to Microsoft's support. Etc.

But.. companies do. That's how they work. And a good number of users do.. however, when money is involved - users are more picky about it. Many users will instead grab their Linux-using relative to come fix their computer :D.

Unless you're just such an *awesome* developer that the software you write works 100% of the time in *all* environments without tweaking.. in which I applaud you tremendously... there is money to be made in support.

The question is - is it enough money for you? Most businesses don't settle for enough to live on and keep the business running.. they want as much money as possible with the least amount of work.. so they over-charge, and then triple-charge for the same thing, just because they can. I personally think that's ridiculous. I don't mind people making money.. I do mind people taking advantage of other people just because they can.

That's why I'll support Red Hat over Microsoft. I hated when Red Hat dropped their official "free" operating system because I felt it wasn't in the spirit of what linux represents. Over time I've grown less zealotry.. they do work with CentOS, which provides a free alternative to their main enterprise system - and they also do a lot of work with Fedora - which is free.. so they made up for it in alternative ways.

Microsoft on the other hand wants you to pay, and then pay again, and then pay some more.. and oh wait - did you pay last minute? Cuz.. it's a new minute.. you need to pay again..

So this would work for games and the odd simple application too would it? Not to mention the overhead in creating and running a support centre?

The point of this thread is whether or not by passing the model of paid for software was ever justified though. can we please get back on topic?

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77h (Post 554336)

I am in Software Sales.
I have the data - The crack helped us gain more business in Russia - significantly more.

I'm sorry, someone just gotta say this..

In Soviet Russia, Piracy helps sale!

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77h (Post 554347)

Piracy CAN be good for developers - I apologise

Just like shoplifting can be good for stores. I mean if someone steals something then it lets the store know that that is a popular item right? They can then use that metric to stock more of that particular product.

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77h (Post 554347)

Piracy CAN be good for developers - I apologise

Point noted - Unfortunately there is no thanks button here!

However, surely it would be better for the company if they didn't need to bother with protection mechanisms in the first place and just concentrated on the innvoative points of development though?

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrojas (Post 554303)

I still don't see why I am supposed to give away for free something I worked on hard to create.

It's not about the price per se, but a consequence of respecting the freedom of your users. You may or may not believe that people have a right to study, modify and share software, but some people do. Software freedom is like freedom of speech; you can't take it away from people by contract just because it's convenient for you to do so.

Quote:

I could give it away, and that is fine. Or I could charge for it, and that is fine too. It is my decision, and the decision of the people that decide to use or not use my software.

That's a perfectly valid point of view. But it's not the only point of view. Clearly, there are a lot of people that don't, in practice, support it.

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

Actually, the russian case above I think works like a sale\discount of some sort:

The company still looks legal because they purchase a number of licenses from the official vendor, but in reality they may be using 10x as many licenses in the field running the cracked apps.

The correct way to do this is just by offering an official discount to find the sweet spot for pricing when you're entering new market.

Re: What is "piracy" and is it ever justified

@ewan: I'd like to see you sing and yell inside a cinema and try to stay inside by evoking your freedom of speech ;)