Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Interesting read, maybe with a bit negative tone on the other non-Android Phone OS'es but still good read anyway, looking at the viability of Google as an Open Source/Linux kernel based contributor (or not).

http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/andro...-problems.html

The original link, for completeness and credits ;) :
http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_3...f177c416d3aa90

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Google's response is that they need more time to incorporate Android into the kernel code:

“I would be comfortable saying that we’ll likely merge into the mainline in the next couple of years,” DiBona said in an e-mail response to this ZDNet blogger’s questions about the controversy. Android is “no more [a fork] than Red Hat Enterprise Linux or any other distribution vendor. All kernels are in some way a fork for some amount of time, the trick is keeping that delta small. We’re trying to do a better job of keeping a small delta.”

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=5992

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

struggle between evil and "Don't be evil".
hope "Don't be evil" will win early.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

i guess it shows that android is a project google bought, and is having trouble asimilating.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

unfortunately they are getting so large that I don't think they will be able to avoid the evil much longer. Just being that big is evil IMO.

Google is the new microsoft. Before long they will be the cloud with walls. Good luck to anyone that puts all their eggs into googles basket.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Given the choice between Microsoft's bloat, Apple's control, and Google's size, I'll take Google.

Back to the OP, I think the issue is overblown. After all, until Android, there was no viable mobile phone OS that even approached the Linux kernel. Writing code for mobile phones requires time and investment. I don't find it surprising that Google has not gotten their code into a state where it can be added to the kernel and I'm willing to give them time, given that they seem to be investing a lot more than Intel/Nokia are investing in the Meego project.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

This is exactly why I think Google is evil.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I'm not seeing how this is evil. They're admitting that the code wasn't mainline, it was behind... and ultimately they're lagging.

Removing is actually more an admission of being behind than "evil". Am I wrong?

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

It amazes me just how deep the hate for Google goes. Yes they give away a lot of their services in return data mine for advertising. This is understood when you sign up with them. But their products are usually cutting edge and functional. Not to mention how they continue to mesh multiple projects together near seamless. I find the hate to be just that, hate on a company that really has done zilch (to my knowledge) to wrong anyone. I hope that Google continues to buy up small start ups and bring them to the next level that otherwise the start up would never be able to reach. And did I mention free :)

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I think the problem is that Googe are so big they can enter any online business segment (e.g. online apps) and dominate the competition.

Pretty much what Microsoft did many years ago.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Then it's evident... people should compete better. I don't find Google's offerings better than others. Just that people are more aware of their offerings.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I agree to a certain point but Google is in a similar position to Microsoft.

Microsoft are very good at analyzing a competitor's product, cloning it and then either offering it free or including it as a "feature" in a product.

Netscape navigator, stacker, Wordperfect and Lotus 123 comes to mind. All excellent products but eventually died-off to the inferior (at the time) Microsoft version.

Google also offer most of there products free which means any competitor that charges for a service is at an immediate disadvantage.

How do you compete against free?

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Netscape Navigator sorta did a lot of their own downfall to themselves. I remember still purchasing Netscape Navigator 3.3 Gold to avoid having to use the inferior IE 2/3. I hated IE, all of my peers (ironically all of us were MCSE's at the time) hated IE, and we used anything we could to avoid using IE.

But they kept getting more and more bloated. When Mozilla finally came about, it was free, it was less bloated and I moved to it. In the interim between Navigator and Mozilla, I purchased Opera. You compete with free by just being a better option and people know that you're a better option.

That's my take. It doesn't always work though. People will take the free route when they can.

Before GMail, Hotmail (pre-Microsoft purchase)... and Yahoo Mail. So it's not like they didn't walk into a situation there where the competition wasn't already free... but it was already huge. In that one case, they just made it seem better, and earlier on... they made it "exclusive" where people just WANTED an invite so badly that they'd switch anyway. Smart move on Google's part, imho.

So that's a place where guerrilla marketing worked well.

But back to Android... I think honestly them pulling out the Android code from the kernel was... smart. They're so behind in so many forks that I stopped watching. It's beneficial, I just hope they hurry up and get back to mainline or else I fear the naysayers will have a field day with the "evil" chants.

It's funny how "evil" has been placed on IBM, to Microsoft to Google and Apple now in my lifetime. I wonder who's next?

My bet is on Oracle.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I don't how much google have changed their fork of linux but if they cannot keep up with the linux kernel then they have probably done the right thing.

It is not as if they are trying to hijack the kernel itself. They maintain there own fork and I imagine at some point they will catch up.

Just people being weary of Google's intentions.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Google's size = bloat + control

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

So because their procucts are cutting edge, they can' be evi? is "evil" defined as "not cutting edge"?

sounds like from a world where beautiful people are always good and honest. - oh, and btw: they do data mining even if you don't sign up to their services. even you don't know they exist at all they collect your data.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

evil and hate are to easy words; as google is not evil, nor is hate whats being displayed. What we see is a change away from the usual nature of treating everyone equal, towards where a select few is allowed access to a special set of feature not available to the rest.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

benny you have yet to show me the evil. My point in cutting edge gives you reason to use their products. And I still do not understand why everyone freaks out about data mining. Do you really think you your self are so important that Google is going to single you out to wrong you? Really? It only takes one known wrong doing to kill them. And if you are so worried about whats being seen, maybe you are doing a bit of evil yourself ;)

tso if you are referring to google voice, then yes it is a private "beta" at the moment....just as gmail was. I'm sure once they see the success and figure out how they can be profitable with the voice, they will 1 work with international telco's and 2 open it up for free sign up

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

no, i am referring to how google web services work on all browsers, while the android apps for the same services are only available on select devices. And this includes android market, where the name alone suggests it should be part of the base android package.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

At the 2010 LFCS they basically said "we need people to do it," which I don't buy (Google lacking manpower?) But it is an ongoing issue with technical problems that have to be solved, and they won't get the code in until it isn't so Android specific.

Oracle was already evil, only now they can sell you hardware too.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Cutting edge technology gives you a reason to use their products although you should know better. People wouldn't give up their privacy for only half-baked, boring content, right? The bait has to be attractive.

And for many this strategy seems to work. They don't think much about it... like: Why do they give it away for free? (I bet some people even think Google has to be good because they give away all these services for free.)

Google gives away your data to the authorities. They answer thousands of requests per year. (Where "one" request my be anything from "Tell me about person X" to "Give me all information about anybody who ever visited site Y".) I wouldn't want my data to show up in files of the US or UK authorities.

Even more dangerous: They have the data. We know who controls these huge amounts of data today, but you cannot be sure who does tomorrow. Any regime (or new owner of the company) could use the data tomorrow to single out, abduct and torture people based on anything they like. Sexual orientation, religion, friends, political points of view, it's all there in the database. Never been so easy.

Knowing the danger and still keeping this business running is irresponsible - and evil.

Oh, and there's more, of course. Companies of a certain size are always evil. They have too much power. Google, for example, has the potential to change the whole internet to its likings. They introduced their own DNS service, they introduce a replacement for http, they have their own browser and now even two operating systems under their control... Heaven! Microsoft did only half of that and was always considered "bad". Why shouldn't Google be? Because they let you edit your documents for free? Are people that cheap?

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

the dns service is thankfully optional, and the http replacement (more like a improvement, iirc) do not show any signs of EEE (like what microsoft have a history of doing) but i am not fully aware of any license put on the improvements, if any at all.

i guess they are evil tho, if evil includes disregarding potential negatives to their own actions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions?

so far the only section of google that shows any direct willingness to control things is the android one, and its a transplant rather then a in house creation. The rest just seems to create services and such without maybe considering any negative effects it can have down the road. Heck, when complaints where made about issues of data being held hostage by google servers, they provided tools for getting the data out.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

You misunderstand.

Google put some sh*t into the Linux kernel which break compatibility between Android's drivers and "regular" Linux drivers. Along with other stuff.

The kernel maintainers asked Google to fix it. Google didn't care. (This is why they are evil.)
So, in the end, the kernel maintainers removed Google's code.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I like Google too, they understand how to make advertising profitable and keep it from being intensely annoying, unlike conventional advertising, which prides itself on its ability to brainwash the human race.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I can make an interpretation for data mining that I find a fair exchage for their services but the mask has been slipping for some time. Given their "Dont be Evil" motto they are never going to get an easy ride but its now gone further than that and gotten to the stage where Microsoft look like the good guys in comparison

I didn't sign up for that. Google have made their position on privacy very clear. My gmail account is now only used for spam and I bought an n900 instead of an android device.

Plus if you ever speak to a Google employee the place sounds like a creepy cult.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

That's not evil. That's lazy and failing to understand who you're working with. Evil would be if they threatened them, or something.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Using free software for making money and then not caring about the rest of the world IS evil enough for me.

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

I am not fanatic of Google and I am a linux s/w developer but I think you misunderstand a little in the last sentence -

The Linux community way of maintaining kernel is not very compatible with commercial production. It is pretty troublesome to keep development of commercial product without a reliable way to make your patches working. You do a patch/development and put it in kernel. Later that patch is considered bad - but nobody consult with you about mainstream development and make agreement what to do and you should spend money for fixing things which are working. But you are bound with contracts, obligations and schedules and spending money on commercial product development.

Moreover, you do a patch but there is no a reliable way that your patch will be included in any form (even adjusted) in mainstream build... Would you like to establish a solid commercial plan on this shaky ground?

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Why doesn't google's software run on a standard linux kernel?

Why can't i install an 'android app' on maemo, or debian?

Re: Android code removed from latest Linux kernel
 

Why can't I install a Maemo app on Android, Ubuntu or Moblin?