Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

The fun question is still the Harmattan one. Will Harmattan folks migrate themselves into oblivion by Nokia insisting Harmattan to be considered as MeeGo (and then people realizing that virtually nothing that happens on meego.com relates to them except for the familiar 'when will N920 get real MeeGo?' threads), or will Harmattan rather merge with the existing maemo.org infrastructure, pushing back the formation of the device-agnostic MeeGo (user) community even further...

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

I'll be posting the responses to the 3 community questions here in this thread instead of my blog.

Andrew Flegg (Jaffa):

1. In your opinion, what should happen to Maemo.org after the merge?

This will depend on how realistic MeeGo is for day-to-day usage for
N900 and N8x0 users. If a MeeGo derivative can be used by normal
end-users, maemo.org doesn't need to continue with a large community:
everyone can run MeeGo and get the benefit of the high-quality
applications that both Nokia and Intel expect.

However, if Maemo 5 or Harmattan is the last realistic operating
system for the N900, and Maemo 4 (or Mer^2) for the N8x0, the existing
community should continue. Forums, downloads, Extras, bug tracking and
garage are all features in day-to-day use. These resources aren't
free, though; currently Nokia pay for them and their interest will
move increasingly to MeeGo. We will have to ensure that there are
plans in place to continue these services if necessary.


2. Do you agree with the Extras QA process ? In your opinion, we
should lower, raise or maintain the current entry barrier for extras ?

I agree that there needs to be a barrier to entry to Extras,
especially since it is now enabled out-of-the-box. The existing
process is sub-optimal, and response times to enact changes haven't
been as swift as would be liked.

However, the Testing Squad is an excellent idea to ensure "no app is
left behind" and there are continual improvements to the user
interface. However, I think there is still scope for further
improvements: fast tracking bug fix releases (such as lower vote
requirement, and shorter quarantine time); improved user interface for
the web-based QA queue; clarification of process for fast-tracking
security fixes and removing packages from Extras and ensuring that the
process is as easy as possible by fixing bugs which mean users get
logged out of maemo.org when moving between computers/not using the
system for a few days.


3. As a new comer here I have sensed a culture clash. It seems the
history of Maemo was largely a hangout for those well skilled in Linux
and there was an assumption of what was understood and more
importantly how the “community” worked. Now with the N900 there is the
introduction of those, like me, who are not experts at Linux and do
not have a long history of working in the “community” environment.
Things like voting for what bugs to fix first, are totally foreign
concepts. And yes, there will be some questions that make your eyes
roll to the back of your head because many of us lack the skills you
have. As this will likely get worse over time as more devices are
introduced and the customer base grows, what would you change to
facilitate a smoother and more productive co-existence?

I understand the concern, however I don't think this culture clash is
new! There have always been people complaining about maemo.org being
too technical, or maemo.org catering to newbies too much; and each new
device has brought new people in to the community. The dynamic nature
of this community is what keeps it fresh and interesting: we will know
the platform is dead when it's just the same dozen people talking
about the same things over and over again!

The first point of call for a lot of new users will be
maemo.org/downloads/ and so this should be made as user-friendly as
possible; from there users will often get experience of Bugzilla,
Extras-testing and the QA process or Talk. When transitioning from an
end-user to a contributor (and anyone posting to Bugzilla,
Extras-testing or Talk *is* a contributor), we need to ensure that
shift is as seamless as possible. For example, regularly reviewing the
top-level pages of maemo.org and the stickies on talk.maemo.org.

However, this isn't something the council has to drive: any community
member can make suggestions and the good ones will get picked up. The
council can help push ideas if someone's voice is lost in the
cacophony, but it's not necessary (or desirable!) to have the council
come up with all the ideas. Indeed, most candidates have forgotten
what it was like in those initial transitions. We are fortunate that
so many new contributors are willing to suggest and collaborate on
ways of making the barrier-to-entry of the community lower.

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Oops, I forgot to reply to those... is it too late? I deliberately avoided reading Jaffa's just in case.

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Arek Stopczynski (hopbeat):


1. In your opinion, what should happen to Maemo.org after the merge ?


Are we expecting any merge? Maemo.org will remain separate entity, serving all the owners of N900, N810, N800, N770. The community will be slowly shrinking, but we shouldn't expect half of the users to get to the shops and buy a new MeeGo device on the very first day. There is still some time (few years I would say) before maemo.org can be considered 'closed'. Till then, normal operation and cooperation with MeeGo.


2. Do you agree with the Extras QA process ? In your opinion, we should lower, raise or maintain the current entry barrier for extras ?

In my opinion, the entry barrier for the apps is good. We need to basic things in this area to be done: votes of the testing team need to obligatory and we need to promote packages waiting in the queue more. But the current level is a good balance between number of new apps and their quality.

3. As a new comer here I have sensed a culture clash. It seems the history of Maemo was largely a hangout for those well skilled in Linux and there was an assumption of what was understood and more importantly how the “community” worked. Now with the N900 there is the introduction of those, like me, who are not experts at Linux and do not have a long history of working in the “community” environment. Things like voting for what bugs to fix first, are totally foreign concepts. And yes, there will be some questions that make your eyes roll to the back of your head because many of us lack the skills you have. As this will likely get worse over time as more devices are introduced and the customer base grows, what would you change to facilitate a smoother and more productive co-existence?

As the Maemo device went 'almost mainstream' (N900) and MeeGo devices are expected to be fully end-user oriented, we can indeed expect an increase in number of not skilled users. I don't however see this as a problem, as, together with those users, we should expect large number of semi-skilled and skilled ones. Regarding the skills, the community structure will probably not be Gaussian one, rather you can imagine it as a pyramid (which is ok, one skilled user can 'serve' several new ones). I expect the community structure to self-regulate, with Council role being to make sure that the groups do not get hostile or do not try to take over the whole community (we don't want to have community of hackers, nor the community of noobs; we need to have balance, with strong emphasis on users who feel comfortable with the device and can occasionally answer a question of those less-skilled; a middle class of the community if you wish).
I really like Texrat's idea of Maemo Greeters program, this initiative should get a full support. The very first contact of the newcomers with community (often via talk.maemo.org) is a crucial step.

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Cosimo Kroll (zehjotkah):

1. [Mandor]: In your opinion, what should happen to Maemo.org after the merge ?


relink to the new forum. all accounts inclusive karma copied to the new forum. Alls posts copied to the new forum. the fact that most meego applications will run on maemo justifiy this steps. we are still one community!

2. [VDVsx]: Do you agree with the Extras QA process ? In your opinion, we should lower, raise or maintain the current entry barrier for extras ?


I think the QA process is nearly perfect. With the time (when meego is really mature) there should be more quality requirements for example to the graphics.


3. [GaryHT627]: As a new comer here I have sensed a culture clash. It seems the history of Maemo was largely a hangout for those well skilled in Linux and there was an assumption of what was understood and more importantly how the “community” worked. Now with the N900 there is the introduction of those, like me, who are not experts at Linux and do not have a long history of working in the “community” environment. Things like voting for what bugs to fix first, are totally foreign concepts. And yes, there will be some questions that make your eyes roll to the back of your head because many of us lack the skills you have. As this will likely get worse over time as more devices are introduced and the customer base grows, what would you change to facilitate a smoother and more productive co-existence?


Texrat started with the "maemo greeter"-project. I want to expand it. The idea is really great! Everyone can help everyone. New users can help other users with the knowledge they've already learned.
We have to make it really easy for newcomers to get active! Incentivate them to post useful posts, take part in bugzilla and communicate their wishes.

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Not too late buddy!

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Steven Yeager (YoDude):

1. [Mandor]: In your opinion, what should happen to Maemo.org after the merge ?


Answer:
From what I understand, the operating funds required to run maemo.org’s day to day are provided by Nokia. Any speculation about the future would depend on Nokia’s plans to continue those funds and for how long. Since our community council is charged with managing some of maemo.org’s operation. I would think that determining this time line, that is asking Nokia, would be one of the first administrative duties our next council should accomplish in order to effectively allocate time and energy.
Maemo and Nokia will always be considered one set of the grandparents to this new MeeGo OS. I don’t see the grandparents getting divorced right after their first grandchild is born.
In my perfect world where the sky is always blue BTW, I see the Maemo community continuing to support the independent developer community and continuing to support and enhance the Maemo user experience.
In the end it will be this expertise and legacy that maemo.org will eventually offer to the MeeGo organization.


2. [VDVsx]: Do you agree with the Extras QA process ? In your opinion, we should lower, raise or maintain the current entry barrier for extras ?

Answer:
I most definitely agree with the process. In my opinion we should maintain and enhance support for this process particularly now that it has evolved to include more engaged users through “testing squads” and the 2nd “Testing Marathon” that was conducted on Saturday.


3. [GaryHT627]: As a new comer here I have sensed a culture clash. It seems the history of Maemo was largely a hangout for those well skilled in Linux and there was an assumption of what was understood and more importantly how the “community” worked. Now with the N900 there is the introduction of those, like me, who are not experts at Linux and do not have a long history of working in the “community” environment. Things like voting for what bugs to fix first, are totally foreign concepts. And yes, there will be some questions that make your eyes roll to the back of your head because many of us lack the skills you have. As this will likely get worse over time as more devices are introduced and the customer base grows, what would you change to facilitate a smoother and more productive co-existence?


Answer:
That right there Gary, really is the heart of the matter; different cultures. The forums are a noisy place. However what I have found having had most of my maemo.org experience from the forum side of our house is that just as some engaged users from the forums have ventured into the alien mailing list/IRC developer dominated world, knowledgeable aliens… um, I meant to say developers :), have ventured into the forums. Many were already there when I started over three years ago with the N800 and many are still there willing to help as needed. In fact, just about everything I have learned about these devices, I have learned through the forums with the help and guidance of these guys and gals.
As the devices became popular forum membership has grown dramatically. Many of the previously developed apps simply needed to be ported over to the new devices and much of that work has been done by the original developers. As a result the developer side of the house hasn’t grown as much. This then spreads the helpful folks very thin and to a first time user, the help and guidance I experienced is now much harder to find. It is still there, it is just much harder to hear now in this now much noisier forum environment.
I think we would agree that the best forums are the ones that are produced and maintained by the people who use them as their primary source of information. Members who find useful information will post that information. Just as we see now in the developing Sygic threads. Other members will collect specific information from a general thread and open a new thread for only that information. Forum users will do this naturally regardless of the forums subject in order to make the forums easier for them to use. Since we are all there pretty much for the same reason, the forums then become easier for all to use.
This is why I proposed that forum administration and moderation be separated from the council’s duties. I believe that when we stop trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole, active forum members will allow the forums to evolve into a more useful place for all. As a bonus, in my blue sky world I believe more independent developers will be produced from the forum side of the house as forum members learn more about their devices from within an environment that is more “natural” to them.

I’ll close now with another proposal:

The first “Long Weekend”, Maemo event that I know of in North America …and if it’s held in Philadelphia, [PANDER] I’ll even bring the doughnuts! [/PANDER]

Thank you all. It has truly been my pleasure. Please VOTE! I believe a vote for any of the candidates will contribute towards a better community.

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Sorry again to have slipped on this. Since EIPI is not using his blog, I figured I would save him some labor and just reply here. I have not read the other candidates' answers.

Like GeneralAntilles I don't see this as a merge (anymore) but as a migration-- and one that likely won't be 100%. What I'd like to see is maemo.org stick around as a site to support the previous Maemo devices and N900, as long as there is sufficient interest (hard to define, but I'm sure we'll know it when it's no longer there). My wish is that Nokia will turn over as much as they can-- and that includes opening up the 770 and N800/N810 to the utmost ASAP... and the N900 ultimately.

I think VDVsx and team are getting this close to a sweet spot here. When the complaints of users over immature software fall and complaints from developers that the process is too rigourous rise to parity, I think we'll be there. ;)

In total seriousness, I want a solid process with deep hooks into a rich help system so that developers know at any given moment what is expected of them. I hope the team has been examining what other open source organizations have done so as to borrow from proven concepts.

We've actually always had that situation. Every new product has just renewed and increased it. That main difference with the N900 is that it brought in a cell phone contingent.

As for bug reporting, my preference is that for casual users we create a device-based process using wizards and an expert system. I actually think we can pull it off and reduce the workload on the bugmaster(s). Info here for the interested: http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a..._working_group

(the focus is now on MeeGo but principles will work for Maemo)

As for co-existence... it can and will never be flawless or totally peaceful. In fact a certain dynamic tension is healthy. The best way IMO though to make sure the predominant experience is positive is to 1) have positive leadership 2) make rules and expectations very clear 3) foster an environment of diversity and tolerance 4) visibly acknowledge positive contributions and 5) quickly and quietly deal with obvious troublemakers. It's circular, but it takes a good community to make and keep a good community. ;)

Re: [Community Council Election]: All Candidates Debate
 

Great. I have a thread about opening components in the userspace and desktop environment, and would love some input

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44871