Nokia's phones to have higher quality cameras by 2011
 

Nokia’s Executive Vice President Anssi Vanjoki has revealed that the company are aiming to deliver camera phones with quality better than SLRs within the next 12 months.

As reported from NokNok, Nokia has always been a popular choice for camera lovers, thanks to their partnership with Carl Zeiss Optics, which usually deliver photo quality above average, especially when combined with Xenon flash.

When speaking in a recent interview with Reuters, Vanjoki had this to say: “There will be no need to carry around those heavy lenses. It will not take long, less than a year, when phones can record HD quality video and you can transfer it directly to your HD television set”.

While video quality on say the Nokia N900 is considered excellent as it is, the idea of true HD video recording is surely an exciting one for Nokia fans.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

late in competition.

Hint - omnia HD

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Well, unlikely. You need big optics as the laws of physics cannot be changed.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I know lenses play a huge part in image quality, but if the phones are fitted with a large ccd / cmos, and with the way technology is moving along, perhaps in 12months they will have developed a compact lens that has similar abilities to large lenses, whats to say SLR quality isn't within reach.
just a thought... :p

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Err... not really :)

The laws of physics are overrated... :)

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

When will this all come together in one phone that uses MeeGo though?

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I see huge flaws with your references.

topic is incorrect. that has never been said except by you. get the facts

e: now I understand how all the FUD is given birth to.....

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Um, judging by the stellar speed at which Nokia has moved the N900 phenomenon forward, I'd have to call BS.

If he would've said that Nokia might stand a chance of approaching Canon Compact cameras in terms of quality by 2011, I would still have been skeptical, but claiming better quality than DSLR:s, he's either lying, delusional or he's just thinking that the only contributing factor to "quality" is the amount of megapixels.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

or then the most probable explanation: someone (khrm OP khrm) has misquoted something heavily?

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

read the original article, do not spread FUD further

please

background:

"replacing big and heavy cameras" was a joke thrown to the only photographer taking pictures in the SHOK summit.
http://cartinakuva.blogspot.com/2010...so-kamera.html
http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&sl=fi&tl=en

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Carl Zeiss optics are crap. OP doesn't know what SLR means. OP probably doesn't know what people spend more money on their glass than their body. Ignore the SLR part; phone cameras will still suck, no matter what.

Nath is right: you can't change the laws of physics when it comes to cameras.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Good comment at Engadget: "No, this would be someone saying that watching movies on the screen of a phone will make cinemas obsolete."

This is pretty much spot on, but on the other hand, this has been the case with camera phones for several years already. They have been good enough to replace SLR cameras for indiscriminate photographers for a long time already.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I wasn't there to actually hear Vanjoki say anything, but according to other blogs he said to a photographer in the audience that "soon he wouldn't need to lug around all those lenses (and his DSLR) any longer, since Nokia camera phones would be good enough to replace them).

This does implicate that he meant the quality of photos produced by camera phones would be higher or as high as that produced with a DSLR in the near future(?). He didn't actually say when - I see now that the 12 months estimate was about HD video in camera phones and had nothing to do with the replacing of DSLRs.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

exactly.

OP please edit the topic because it is 110% incorrect.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

yea not really literally

But for a common user slr, carl zeiss , HD blah blah at such tags would hardly matter, If the camera quality is better in resolution and with affordable/competitive price tag attached to it . Omnia HD thus leads the race (cheaper than n900, 8mpx).

A simple example is n70 , without any tags has much better camera clarity/resolution with just 2mpx when compared to nokia 5800 with so called carl zeiss lens at 3.2 mpx

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Ahh, this topic just made my day.

I'd imagine anyone else who takes photography seriously is joining me in laughing their arse off right now.

Cheers!

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Hmmmm, aren't you a little judgemental this morning? Well I have just the thing to sort that out for you.
Read Me

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

yes I am because that is old news and you are spreading FUD.
as stated above those claims have never been made by Vanjoki.

your article is btw crap.

1. it states that Vanjoki has been interviewed by reuters. false
source straight from the article:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLD...=Google+Reader

2. messing up things with title. Bit like "Meego is coming 2014" from sentences "Meego is coming 2010" + "Something will happend in 2014"

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I think this whole FUD was started by Engadget, which is basically a Nokia-haters blog...
Luckily they didn't misquote Vanjoki saying that "In 12 months Nokia will replace all those clumsy orbital telescopes with camera-phones"...

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

This is why.
http://www.invisageinc.com/

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

That's only a new sensor technology. You would stil need large lenses for gathering the photons into the sensor.

It would replace the current digital sensors the same way digital sensors replaced silvernitrate based film. It wouldn't affect the bending-light part, a.k.a optics, at all.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

that technology will decrease significantly the amount of photons needed.

but everything is about the details. if you aren't willing to sacrifice any, buy something like this with digital back:
http://www.dannyburk.com/images/ebony.jpg

if you are willing to sacrifice some, buy something like this:
http://www.digitalcamerareviews.org....tal-camera.jpg

and some more:
http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3x/ima...S_5027-600.jpg

and more:
http://www.tekniikanmaailma.fi/s/f/e...%2018-55mm.jpg

and more:
http://www.tekniikanmaailma.fi/s/f/editor/Canon_G11.jpg

and more:
http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/...ixus-80-is.jpg

and more:
http://static.iltalehti.fi/digi/n900MP_410_du.jpg

please note how pocketability changes.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Hm. Interesting theory. Agree woleheartedly with the point reference the laws of physics - the larger the CMOS sensor, the better the picture ultimately. Look at the size of the lens in a camera phone. How large do you really think the CMOS is behind that tiny little 2.8mm lens?

Granted, phones are getting *better* at photos - my lady has a Sony Satio (12.1Mp) camera phone - the camera is great, using Xenon flash as well instead of poxy dual LED's, which makes impulsive shooting in low light conditions soooo much better than my N900, but the video recording on it sucks. The 900 is sooo much better at recording video, and I put that down to the processing speed of the ARM-8 and potentially also the write speed of the memory.

Rant:

To say that phones will have DSLR quaity in, say, 5 years, wouldn't be too much to ask, but by 2011....? Somehow, I don't think so. And for it to be Nokia that is the benchmark? What about Sony Ericsson and their Cybershot series? Much better image quality already and obviously the trailblazers so far as camera phones go. Nokia still don't have Xenon flashes. Nuff sed.

/Rant

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

You make no sense at all. For starters my article was copied from a source here in that article it gives a link to an interview by reuters here is the shortened version of that link http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE63J15F20100420 the guy who done the interview is this guy

How can you possibly say its from a false source? What, the whole things made up is it?

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

i bought the very first DSLR Canon made when it came out. Canon D30. About 10 years ago. Whopping 3MP sensor. Took absolutely gorgeous pics. No 10+MP tiny digicams and mobile phone will ever come close to it. Never. Unless lenses become bigger than the phone itself that can provide nice dreamy bokeh, shallow dof, tele compression etc. It's about the feel for me. Not the detail.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I got n900 with excellent photo capabilities - rather good lense, 5mp sensor.
I got Canon 400D, DSLR, 10mp sensor.

When I look at images taken with 400D at 100% zoom level, I see that every single pixel works. There are details at pixel level.
When I look at images taken with N900 at 100% zoom level, I barely see that pixel clusters of diameter 5 and more pixels work.

I know why it happens. It's all about noise reduction. Larger pixels of sensor lead to smaller amount of noise.

To be better than DSLR, phone has to:
1. have sensor as good as DSLR (20mm size is current standard for amateur-level DSLR)
2. have lense as good as lenses for SLR and small enough to fit phone. This is impossible at current technologies level. Later there might be a breakthrough - like liquid lenses, or something like that.

Either Nokia talks about integrating phone capabilities into existing DSLR, or they lie.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

All you guys doubting new electronic concepts should be very carefull before you talk because remember not so many years ago man did the impossible and flew to the moon AND landed on it AND flew back ha.
The first computer was the size of a house and now we have the N900 ooooer lol.
So now we have guys who can predict whats NOT going to happen in the future hmmmmm interesting lol.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

I don't think physics get in the way of having a good lens fitting in a phone. I mean, the eye has a pretty good lens, and it's not that big.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Eye has fixed focal length, cannot focus super close. No optical zoom either. Aperture is also fairly slow. So it cannot provide shallow dof on objects further than about 2-3m away. Sensor however is pretty darn good. Not perfect either by any means though. (cannot see when too bright or too dark while electronic sensors can)

It's all about the physics. Photography = capturing light.
Sensor will get better over time. Lense? Not really.
Unless you use Diamond lenses or something.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

first of all: it wasn't an interview. don't bother to correct you further.

and here is my proof:

taken from: http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLD...=Google+Reader

which is the source of the article you linked.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Well.

If I can have a fixed bright (around F2.0) wide angle around 25mm (35mm equiv)) lense and a good enough sensor to provide DSLR 'quality' pics in terms of color, noise and detail, I'll be quite happy. I know that at least this can be done. (although we still won't get the nice shallow depth of field)

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

with details -no way because diffraction messes things up. but with everything else: it could be pretty soon. modern dslrs tolerate sensitivies up to ISO6400 with good enough quality. That is 4 stops more than it was with film age. So compared to film, you need only 25mm f8 now. you loose ability to use dof but 25mm f8 is much cheaper, smaller, lighter and better than 25mm f2. so the photosensitivic frame techonogy (plus minor improvements to microscopic zeiss lenses, which are btw superb with 35mm system if you use those as they are supposed to be used....) is the thing drives cellphone cameras.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

So true.

I have a Canon 350D, it has 8 megapixels, and comparing photos from a comact camera, which has 10 megapixels i believe, there is absolutley no competition at all. Thats with the stock lens on the 350D, which isn't even that good comapred high end lenses.

From that, I firmly beleive no camera, especially phone camera's will match SLR quality.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Yes, well done, the source of the article I linked.

You've changed your tune quite alot through this thread, first it was
"topic is incorrect. that has never been said except by you. get the facts"
& then
"as stated above those claims have never been made by Vanjoki."
& then
"it states that Vanjoki has been interviewed by reuters. false
source straight from the article:"
(Take it up with the guy that made the report, I didnt write it)
and lastly....

Who gives a S**T!!! whether it was an interview, a meeting, a conference, a social gathering, a speech, or a fricking staff xmas party, Vanjoki made a statement, and thats that!

I posted a thread, you blasted it as lies all over it, I gave a source, and now all of a sudden your agreeing with it. The fact remains YOU said I made it all up to start with. I dont appreciate being called a liar and put down in a forum. But now it seems the tables have turned, and guess whos looking stupid now?

Talk about being pedantic with the incorrect use of a word.

And by the way Vanjoki also said "high-definition (HD) quality video recording was also coming to cellphones within the next 12 months."
You gonna get picky between the incorrect usage of SLR and HD now?

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

OMG, I'm still laughing. As a keen DSLR user with some VERY nice lenses, this is utter crap.
You might be able to take a picture in bright sunshine, and it could come out OK. But to compare with a DSLR with all the manual controls - never!

lol

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Vanjoki made the comment about (D)SLRs as a response to a obstrusive photographer with a telescope lens who got on stage and close to his face. It wasn't so much of a future tech prediction rather than a diplomatic way to say "Get the **** off the stage you dumb idiot".

It was misquoted in english speaking media as a prediction. He did really speak about/predict HD video becoming standard in highend phones during the next 12 months.

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

It's all about marketing. More MP = better = more sales.

Canon did listen and actually lowered pixel density for their newer S and G series from 14.7MP (G10) to 10MP (G11). Great move. Wish they lowered it to like 6MP and take full advantage of the improved technology in both sensor and processing to create a DSLR rivaling clean images at ISO 100-800 range. (and allow it to have useable images up to ISO3200 or so)

Have you seen the very first 3MP Foveon sensor'ed SD9 pics? If you haven't, I recommend you to check it out. It was crap above ISO400 or so but at ISO100, it is just amazing. That's what I want from my mobile phone. Beautiful crisp 3MP images. Not over-processed 10+MP images. Just check out the full sized image of the very first pic of Phil's wife. What an amazing picture quality. This was 8 years ago! (the sensor does have its flaws but was a great technical demonstration of what a true rgb sensor could achive at a pixel by pixel level)

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/re...ples/slideshow

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

Anyone interested in seeing the datasheet for the ET8EK8 module?

Re: Nokia's to have SLR quality cameras by 2011
 

What if they would use more then one sensor and lens? A cluster of crappy cameras, and then compute a good result?