Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

It's not that we're fanboys of Nokia but we actually do some research/reading/LISTENING before we buy something... Nokia has always stated that Maemo 5 and N900 is step 4/5 and it's meant to be a device mostly for DEVELOPERS/TESTERS... So in other words the N900 was meant to be more of a community driven device... But people are dumb enough to ignore all this and start complaining here on (maemo.org); WHICH IS A COMMUNITY SITE and not an official Nokia support forum... And they're dumb enough to keep on posting new threads almost everyday without searching... So everyonne who is complaining about this is really just showing the rest that you have not done your homework and now you're complaining why you're getting a bad grade... Do you see how that really is dumb now?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

@Mengs

600 euros ouch, I can see why you're pissed, still I'd cut my losses as it appears you're not going to be happy re the functionality with the device either as a phone or mini pc.

I guess that's why I never pay hard cash for new devices like this and opt for contract upgrades, if it's not what I want regardless what others say, I exchange it within the allowed timescale.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

so you wanna hug or what? keep that threads for your personal blogs please.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

True enough. but calling people dum doesn't help, if this really was a device for the community as you infer then perhaps Nokia should have been a bit more upfront about it's intended audience.

The issue I can see is that no amount of research in the early days revealed this to be the case, Vodafone said nothing of the sort and happily sold it to folk as a smartphone couple this with reviews on TV from those highly knowledgeable chaps on the gadget show ;) and you can see why some would have assumed they were getting phone as opposed to a community developer device.

So hands on research was the only way to really decide if it's for them or not.

If people are buying it now then they deserve what they get as there is plenty of information re the potential pitfalls of this device. Which I guess is why some people post in here.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

from today to every "hate n900" thread i'll post 2 "i love n900" threads i think

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

I honestly don't understand what the fuss is about. I agree with some of the posts, that yes Nokia has missed the mark with their high-end smartphones, but then at the same time they are the best sellers in developing countries such as China, India, Africa. I tend to visit the Middle East and North Africa on a frequent basis and in those countries Nokia is the phone to have. I just think that looking at a small (although growing) segment like smartphones doesn't really give you the greater picture. The developing World are going to catchup with the rest of us and they will not be doing so with an iPhone in their pocket, but with an affordable phone.

Anyway, all Companies have highs and lows, I remember when I was a child the TV to have was a Sony, today there is more competition in the TV market. Notice I am not saying that Sony is not as good as its competitors, but there was no Samsung or LG making TV's at the time (or not to my knowledge). None the less Sony is still in the running of being the biggest TV manufacturer in the World.

Nokia must answer to the new competition (iPhone, HTC, etc.). Also note that both Motorola and Ericsson (now SonyEricsson) were with Nokia the 3 largest mobile phone manufacturers about 15 years ago, both of those companies are struggling to survive at the moment. Whilst Nokia is still the biggest mobile phone manufacturer. So lets see how well Nokia bounces back from all of this, hopefully they will learn from their mistakes and bring a more successful smartphone to the market. But I wouldn't count them out of the race just yet.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Not trying to argue but making a small point.

I never recalled the N900 being mentioned as a phone when I was looking at the device. I seem to recall it being mentioned as a Internet Tablet with GSM functionality.

If you look most if not all Nokia's internet tablets were more community driven then Nokia.

Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

OK - just read my post and maybe it is not imminent but it is starting to happen - until Nokia "wake up" then Nokia's smartphone share wil go "bye-bye".

"Nokia Hurt by Further Delay to Smartphones"
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle7105683.ece

"Deep Value ot Value Trap"
http://online.barrons.com/article/SB...ons_technology

"Nokia Profit May Show Less Bounce as IPhones Spread"
http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

3 new "low cost" smartphones from Nokia.
http://www.sci-tech-today.com/news/N...Y3&full_skip=1

Not a good sign.

Android is now everywhere; Sony-Ericsson, Samsung, Motorola...

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Actually I agree re the research, hence why I said if people are buying it now they deserve what they get :)

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Several Linux distributions have been trying to become mainstream unsuccessfully and Maemo is no exception. This phone was intended for the general public believe it or not.


I appreciate the respectable and thoughtful replies but those who are calling the N900 a "developer phone" and urge those who complain about bad support to sell it is counter productive for the whole process of making Maemo/Meego mainstream. Linux's success in the world will not be based on what a nerd will do on his terminal for his own pleasure but how he can make that terminal disappear for us to still be able to use Linux at its fullest.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

:rolleyes: I have the phone so I'd rather hug that than you, but thanks for the offer.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Right now I'd agree with you, but let's take a longer view. As these countries "tech up"( and yeah I admit the charge of parochialism here but I don't know another way to phrase it), and access to charging points away from urban centres becomes more readily available, the need for a phone which lasts a week becomes less important. The features that a smartphone provides will become more important.

As that happens, which brands are going to gain the most? In my opinion it'll be the aspirational brands, the ones which say "Hey, I've made it. I'm on a level playing field in the international arena". And guess which one is top of the heap from an aspirational perspective?

I fully accept that Nokia are the market leaders, and I would love nothing better than to see them wipe Mr. Job's execrable business model off the map and have apple be forced to be more open and less proscriptive, but to do that they need to have a credible consumer smartphone out there. For all its glory, openness, amazing feature set and looks, the N900 isn't it ... yet.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Everyone I know has an HTC (running winmo 6.5 or android) or an iphone. No one has a nokia, All of work (NHS) have blackberrys. Given my circle of friends are all tech geeks who work in IT and into cutting edge stuff with regards using their phones more than a normal person, I think the fact none of them remotely touch Nokia is damning. One had a N97 for a month but sent it back for lots of reasons.

They make cheap and nasty candy bars for emerging markets, or cheap company phones with limited tech on board, but as smartphones there is little too shout about. So I think they will keep their market share but it won't be a worth while market share, everyone does candy bar phones and the money is in the higher end phones.

Having played with an HTC desire (basically the nexus without google) over the weekend, I am truly saddened at how far android and the android market place have gone in such a short time. 7 screens of loveliness that whooped my N900 phone. Apps to die for. Shows what a company supporting their products can do, to me at least. (and I can't stand google)

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Seriously, who cares?
You could already moan about it in the N+1th topic in here about that.
But nooooooo, you HAD TO open a new thread to show off... Great!

Now go sell your N900 on Ebay, buy an iPhone! I mean, seriously!
Until the next Maemo device comes out, you can still fetch a decent price for your few-month-old N900.

Perhaps the new owner will contribute to this community better!

For the same money, you can easily buy an iPhone, and you can then start your whining in in here.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

This is exactly what is going to happen - I realised this back in January where a Nokia director said "it is unlikely the n900 would get free OVI maps" and the deafening silence that followed.

Nokia's future will be mobile phone maker not smartphone maker.

It's a damn shame I was hoping Nokia would step up to the challenge. I was kinda proud of a european company holding it's own against 2 american companies.

As Orange would say "The future is bright the future is orange"

As Nokia would say "The future is dull the future is a mildy insipid grey"

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Okay, so, this is getting ridiculous.
Seriously.
I'm okay with one or two threads about this, but it is simly ridiculous that every noob (denoted by some as a 'troll') has his own whining thread in this forum.

We should organize an event here on the forums.
All the people who whine about the N900 should sell their N900s to people who don't have the device but are interested in it.
And to those people who want to take part in the community, but they can't afford to buy a new one, this would be a great opportunity.

And then, all the whiners could buy an iPhone (or HTC, whatever), and go off to Apple's and HTC's forums to whine about their devices.

This would reduce the amount of work for moderators, the server bandwith costs, and it would be also great to find actually meaningful threads in the "Active Topics" section.

And also, we would get new people who would actually contribute to the community, not just whine here about the same over and again.
(I'm beginning to think that they are employees of a competitor company, and are PAID for this.)

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

At the moment this thread is discussing the ability of Nokia to compete in the smartphone market place.

Nobody is whining about the n900.
It is an intelligent discussion until you posted your rant.

I suggest you stop reading this thread any further.

Your post also has a sense of irony too.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Feel free to do discover so...
Last Skype update was when? How's that freedom working on bring that forward facing camera into use outside of aMSN?

I'm basing things on facts. And amazingly so, I don't want Maemo to seem like it's lacking. But it is... at least it is (and I've stated this before ad nauseum) for this customer.

No argument there. One that's really pissing me off as of late. Blame the Adobe Flash dev in me and that lil' SDK addition.

But I'll not get into the open-closed source argument. I'll support what fits my needs the best.

No compelling reasons to buy one. I'm not going to move to a cellphone company that doesn't have 3G in my area, I refuse to drop down to EDGE, I refuse to buy a phone where the upgrade path isn't as obvious as it should/could be and I need a proper Twitter app and/or GPS that actually locks in mere moments. I've used the N900... it locked sometimes up to 6-10 minutes while in cities - was just in Pittsburgh, it took 7 minutes while downtown.

Among other needs that are sorely not met 100% due to my Mac usage (among Linux & Win7 & Win2k3/2k8 Server usage)... I can't sync to my Mac. There's a few workarounds posted here, but that's such a convoluted way to do things all of the time.

You're free to do so. Just as I'm quite free to disagree.

It doesn't quite do everything. And to be fair; no platform at the moment does everything. Sadly, people tend to refuse to believe that... if it does everything, please show me how to make a Skype video call. That is important to me... and would mean that it actually does do everything.

And no... it doesn't mean that I'm advocating the iPhone 3G/3GS either. It doesn't even have a forward facing camera. But, via Fring... it can receive video at least. Oh... Fring's not on the N900 yet either.

It does everything... right? That's very subjective to your uses it seems. I can name quite a few more things that it doesn't do for me. Thus... my aforesaid non-purchase.

And I'm a realist. I'm glad you enjoy your N900. Truly am happy for you.

But it's not about "seeing what I want to see"... I see some mighty big gaps that honestly... I'd rather not see. What's so wrong with that?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Brilliant. Best response I've read in this forum by far. This is the spirit the Maemo community should emulate. No rabid fanboyism but a mature response with a simple acceptance of reality. I SALUTE.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

You're kidding right? the fact that the device is "mostly for developers/testers" does not equal to community driven. Your logic fails as you made those two connections in your head. Ask yourself this, if Nokia is supporting the phone the way it should be, would you be complaining "hey, why is nokia so hands on with this device? it's supposed to be community driven" and if your reaction is still the same, then I'll give you the win.

See, you're only using the argument that it's supposed to be community driven device because nokia is not really moving this device forward the way it should be!

I still see some people arguing about how it was marketed as a computer in your palms and not a phone etc etc! But even as a computer it's not working the way it's supposed to.

You guys are just repeating yourself! I argue that the phone function doesn't work, you counter that it's not supposed to be a phone but a computer. I say the computer function sucks, you tell me that it's a community driven device. It's like every single argument I have for not liking this phone, people have a counter argument ready to go. Enough already, it doesn't work as a phone, and it definitely doesn't work as a computer, and the community is not really driving this phone forward because of the lack of support from Nokia!

Just admit already that Nokia is not putting enough effort into satisfying their N900 users!

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

I am a very satisfies user. I will not change my N900 for anything. I already tried an i-phone and some andriod phones.

What is the problem?

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

I gotta disagree here. Symbian is still tops in terms of market share, and last I checked... 100 million phones is not anything to scoff at. They've improved their numbers, and Nokia happens to be one of the few phone manufacturers with two prongs into the smartphone market.

Right now, I'd just have to say that Nokia looks a bit unfocused. We don't know all of what's down the pipe 100% - and the requirement of patience for all of it to unfold is a bit much to ask in this impatient world we live in now.

They did step up to the plate. First with Maemo5. Now with MeeGo. Once all of the pieces are in place, then let's revisit this part of the discussion.

Apple and who? RIM is Canadian.

I'd say the future is still bright. And despite my critical as hell outlook against the blatant gaps in their offerings right now; I'd say the future is still bright.

Just... we don't know all of it yet.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

You might think that I am joking, but could you please list all the things that you are satisfied with?

edit: and if you don't mind, could you list also the things that could be made better?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Originally Posted by twaelti
Off-Topic a few tips to reduce the amount of suffering
Use Petrovic for Bluetooth file sharing (sending

It works for uploading tp Facebook etc, but I still cant believe I cant bluetooth photos to my pc.
I really miss Nokia image storer, you just put the bluetooth on the phone, and they silently and painlessly saved on the pc with no other action needed.
Seems archaeic to be using a usb cable for this.
I'm sick of my usb lead laying around the lounge or hanging out of my laptop.
Its 2010 for goodness sake!

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Of course:
- Real Time multitasking. Is amazing to see a video from youtube while seeing if another webpage if downloading.

- Skype integration, I do not use anymore my computer in order to connect to skype I lie in the sofa from them, and workd perfectly. And in few time also video.

- Web browser, workd perfect.

- Telephone workd properly.

- When a need a urgent connextion to a vpn network or via ssh, it work as good as on any of my computers, or even better, because of lacking of virus, and drivers problems.

- 3D Powerful when playing to Open Arena. That is just amazing.

.....

There many other. Do you need more?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Not familar with Nokia Image Storer, but what you could do is setup rsync on your computer and N900 (not sure if rsync is available for Windows). SSH might be needed for the connection between your computer and the N900. They will also have to be on the same network unless you configure the ssh tunnel so you can connect to it from a different network (though means you can automatically sync photos away from home if you leave your computer and network on)

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Cool... I think we just have to agree to disagree.

Personally I love the web browser and was super excited about firefox jumping on board! but the phone function just doesn't work as well as I hoped for, and neither does the multitasking. Sure, it's fancy to look at a youtube video in small screen while another page loads, but couple more programs open and I find the lag just incredibly annoying.

But like said, agree to disagree.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

For those that have lost faith... what exactly would earn your faith and trust again?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Thanks for your kind answer. About your problems with real multitasking I can only say that that real multitasking work much more better than any one I show on any Real Computer beeing the CPU much more lower. And of course much more better than i-phone multitasking even in i-phone 4G, ha ha, sorry but that multitasking is ridicoulous and all the people is speaking about it....
Regards!!!

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Not everyone enjoys using a pioneering device that the community has a huge role in building itself. It's true that things are missing. it's a lot more convenientto be a Stepford user in a Stepford world where the corporation handles all the important details.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

''Not familar with Nokia Image Storer, but what you could do is setup rsync on your computer and N900 (not sure if rsync is available for Windows). SSH might be needed for the connection between your computer and the N900. They will also have to be on the same network unless you configure the ssh tunnel so you can connect to it from a different network (though means you can automatically sync photos away from home if you leave your computer and network on) ''




not being funny, but to me this might as well be written in Chinese.


I would love just one real example of a marketing video for the N900 that ever said it was not meant to be mainstream and was for peope who would understand how to make it work properly
I hear it ll the time on here that we should have done our research. I honestly did, and not once was anything saying to me dont do it love its too technical for you

It came on contract with Vodafone, who I trusted to sell me a phone with additional capabilities not an internet tablet that is rubbish at everyday things but hey you can spent hours modifying it and see if you can make it do something useful, possibly disabling it completely, or just reflash it and use as a controller for your PS 3 or emulate Nintendo games,
Yeah great!

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

I don't disagree with you on the iphone... And yes, there's definitely real multi tasking on the n900, but the functionality of the multitasking is up for debate.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Better and faster support? I don't mind being kept in the dark (I know it bothers some people, but not me particularly cos I see why things are kept hush before they are released).

But to say that Nokia has been helpful and doing all they can for the N900 is quite a stretch... But that is a good question which I'm not sure that I have a solid answer for. Opening up Ovi store for more apps could be a good start, no?

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Of course this is not perfect. But it is enough for me, and in my opinion the best "real" option in the market.

Why nobody complains about redicoulous iphone-multitasking? Just unbelievable.

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

Symbian as a platform was originally designed for mobile phones but from what I can gather (from other people) has had it's day. Symbian is installed on almost all Nokia handsets but as a modern platform is showing it's limitations. Nokia open-sourced symbian but did that too late. It's fine for simple functionality but to compete as a smartphone OS then no not capable.

The key phrase here is smartphone. Loosely, defining smartphone as something along the lines of android & iPhone and the application support around that.

Nokia have failed with this (so far, e.g. N97).


With regards to mobile phones as defined by focused on making mobile calls then Nokia win by volume. Unfortunately these devices range from £20 to about £300 (ish). But also means profit margins on these are probably smaller than something retailing at £400 upwards. Then from a customer perspective iPhone, android & blackberries become more appealing.

As a result the ceiling price for a Nokia phone has been set.

Yep, Nokia lead the way with mobile phones as volume but the market is changing and the customer wants more from mobile devices.

In the smartphone market is seems to be the applications that are driving demand.
Nokia utterly fail to understand this.

I was thinking about Apple & Google. :)

Very true let's see what happens.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

Because that's not multi-tasking. That's serial-tasking. No marketing drivel will make me believe otherwise.

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

I have posted elsewhere that I never bought into the 'internet tablet/it's a computer' excuse, but having used the N900 mainly as a phone I can see where this arguement was coming from:

The N900 mobile phone dials numbers more like you would from a computer than from a conventional phone.

If you need to have conventional speed-dial you need to have physical buttons.A touchscreen powers down /locks out to save battery and touchscreens are too sensitive to be left on all the time anyway. If you need speed dial and single-handed action to (say) dial whilst you're driving N900 is not the best choice - buy a phone with physical buttons.

On just about every touchscreen phone you have to do things to make a call. Typically:

1. Slide open/power up
2. Select contacts list
3. Input letters from name
4. Select contact
5. Select the right number
6. Dial

or at least:

Slide open/power up
Select favourite contacts or dial pad
press and hold conact/speed dial number to dial


On my N900:

1. Power Up/Slide Open
2. Input letters from name
3. Select contact
4. Tap the right number to dial

or:

1. Slide open/power up
2. Select (tap) contact from desktop
3. tap the right number to dial

What could be easier than that? I can run 30 contacts over three homepages - that's over 60 numbers. The N900 is unbeatable as a telephone, IMO, but perhaps we should start a campaign for telekinetic dialing on PR1.3...

I know some people have issues with accepting calls - that ties in to your second point about develoment and support. I don't think Nokia are any better or any worse than other mfrs in this respect. Go to an iphone, Android or WM forum and see the rants about waiting for updates and missing features generally. We are not alone!

We are getting ongoing support for N900 from Nokia. If you gather tweets like I do you'll notice a week rarely goes by without Nokia releasing updates to older models - some now quite venerable. We have had updates and we know updates are imminent because they have told us. Just what evidence to you have to think N900 will be an exception to this policy?

We also have the added support of this forum and the clever buggers who can write apps and develop the software alongside Nokia.

I don't think you'll get that package elsewhere, but I'm open to any suggestions you might have. Polite ones, of course :)

Re: “Everyone else has caught up and Nokia has been left behind,”
 

I gues it depends on your priorities. For me the speaker, sound quality, camera, real keyboard and TV-OUT are essential. I really want an HTC Desire but it does not meet the mark - mono speaker, poor camera and no TV-OUT. I dont get the apps thing, the N900s browser does it for me. Which app is really 'to die for' ? and what exactly do you need 7 screens for ?. Nokia is not firing on all cylinders but yet they are still far and away the most prevalent and make the best hardware and own the most advanced OS in Maemo. Just wait until the giant wakes up!. None of these phones sound better than my Nokia 5800 which costs considerably less. Nokia will stay on top for at least the next 10 years. Apple will exit once smartphone gets comoditized and margins take a dive.

Check out this article if you care. Peace and happy mobileing to you. .

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news....aspx?pageid=1

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

May be not you but the most of the people do so.

Is human beeing so simple?

Regards!!

Re: I'm losing faith in Nokia
 

if find all these threads very amusing i must say,
But i also think what is the problem that people seem to have.
A comparison of my N900 with my previous phone the E90 (symbian, a real phone on enterprise level)
The things i did with the E90, ordered in importance:

1> Web Browsing
2> Email
3> SMS (gsm or voip)
4> Phone (gsm or voip)
5> IM (chatting, calling i almost don't do because i use real voip (a betamax client))

The N900 wins 3 those 5 points by a large margin...
1> MicroB is way way better then the browser on the E90
3> SMS better integration with contacts book, conversations that really work (E90 it crashes)
5> IM no need for a separate applicaiton, everything perfectly integrated into contacts, with conversations support.

Then 1 point that i see pretty equal but the N900 could be a bit better:
4> Phone , normal dialing , contacts on desktop, call log, all work fine

only 2 points that should improve:
1> Voice dialing i really mis in my car.
2> It happens now and then that the phone rings but the N900 is busy with something (i believe if i have browser windows open...) that the N900 struggles to get the app to font so that i can answer it!
This last point really should be looked at, if the phone rings, the phone app should take the highest priority and all others the lowest. This is also 1 area why i am really looking forward to a dual core Cortext A9.. that will boost mobile computing as much as dual core on the desktop did!!!

then i come to point 2... Email
Yes now i agree with that the N900 fails big time here (for a mobile computer!)
The combination i had on the E90:

Profimail for some IMAP accounts and the java gmail app for gmail stuff is so much better then the N900 combination of Modest for the imap (and or gmail) or gmail also in the browser...

That area really needs some love, modest just plain sucks... It is usable for a bit, but thats just it.