Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

FANBOYS ?? lmfao

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

a slide out keyboard too? :D

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

For me, I'd like one. Not sure what would be best for mass market.

Maybe to keep it slim, make do without.

That I am :) :D But am not completely blind when they muck things up, I enjoy criticizing them.

I'm a Nokia supporter who wants to see them actually not be the dying whale everyone reports them to be.

Maybe turn things around so when general public are asked "What's a really good smartphone" they'd think of a Nokia and not just iPhone/Blackberry/Random Android.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Only if Nokia release a protoype and tries to pass that on as a fully tested release should you worry.

Nothing to see here.. move along, move along...

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

The way the 770, N800 and N810 were steps along the way to the N900 which they had already pointed out was just another step to what Nokia REALLY want to create? It begins to blur the line between prototype and product when the company treats them as a means to the next product and not a product itself to support.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Nokia isnt the first phone with 12MP optics....have a look at a dumb phone with the same feature + with Professional CCD Sensor, 3X optical zoom,Xenon Flash and some others like TV Out

http://www.spiceglobal.com/SpiceMobi...el.aspx?Id=153

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

/me wonders what exactly does 'professional CCD Sensor' in a dumbphone mean nowadays

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

/me wonders why this would be a "dumbphone" when the original iPhone in 2007 was called a "smartphone". - or could it be that these words just don't have any meaning whatsoever?

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Besides Apple, who called the iPhone a "smartphone"!? I'd classify it as a media phone, at best.

The above was merely my opinion.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

It's my opinion, too. But the iPhone was called a "smartphone" from day one. I think it'll maybe deserve this name once it gets the fake multitasking that was presented recently... But still. The mass media have a different point of view.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

/me thinks no professional photographer would ever use that or describe it as 'professional'.

Well, maybe Anssi Vanjoki if he loses his job at Nokia and decides to become a professional photographer.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

C'mon guys, take the blinkers off just for a moment.

A good smartphone must also have a really good web browser and email client.

And by good email client I mean full HTML and previews of each email's body text. I don't want to open every email to view its message. iPhone had all this back in 1997.

Granted, the N900's browser is excellent - however the email client is complete garbage.

Does that qualify the N900 as a dumbphone?

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

For me, a smartphone duplicates the document editing/publishing portions of what I do in the office as well as other things.

As I stated earlier, it's my opinion though... but the iPhone is more about media - iTunes Music Store, games via the iTMS, a semi-decent browser, a semi-decent e-mail app. But it's still mostly about music and apps, not exactly all about say... what BlackBerry offers in terms of communication, synchronization nor MS Office (sorry, it's an necessary evil) editing and publishing.

And I've never (personally) qualified the N900 as a smartphone either. It's... what it is. That's all I can say honestly before I draw the ire of the masses.

But the iPhone (to me) isn't quite exactly a smartphone by my expectations.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Oh. A new definition of smartphone again! It really seems every person on this planet has his own definition of "smartphone".

In the past, I've heard:

• must have PIM functionality
  or
• must support PC-style copy/paste and multitasking
  or
• must be able to run 3rd party applications
  or
• is defined by running an OS that is not unique to the model, but hardware independent
  or
• must have internet connectivity
  or
• everything above $500,-

Now you add web browsing and HTML mails. Cool. ;)

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Yes, I also think that current version of email client is quite terrible when you compare to what you have on desktop computers and another smartphones/netbooks on same price market.

But one thing what I do not understand is HTML in email. WTF seriously? I know that i got some newsletters and advertisements as html email, but besides that? Why on earth someone would use html in their email? It´s pretty much worst thing you can do when communicating with other people. How on earth you know what system or client he/she is using?

Iphone and 1997 again wtf? Where these people come from who think that something that has been around for couple of years means that it´s been forever?

N900 excels on many other aspects and sucks monkeys balls on some. It has too big contrast between it´s official apps.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

+1

I wish my ISP would allow me to simply block all HTML mails. So useless. Such a waste of resources.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Yeah I remember feeling the same way - in 1995.

I project manage a team of software developers. We do a lot of screenshots and send markups via email. An image conveys a 1000 words or something like that...

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

And that's why terminology like smart phone, casual gamers, and so on are entirely pointless.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I just want my feature phone.... (as opposed to feature-less one)

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I'm big into cloud services for storage, synchronisation and document editing - Google Docs, Dropbox, Sugarsync, Flickr, etc. I also use Teamviewer and LogMeIn for remote control and support. Needless to say, there's an iPhone app for all of them. By my definition this type of functionality is smart - something I could only dream of 2 years ago. I'm also pretty sure I'd struggle to get the same functionality with a Nokia device.

BTW - I use to love my Nokia Communicators (9110, 9210, 9500, E90). But those days are long gone...

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

For your consideration...

http://www.crunchgear.com/2009/05/26...s-this-summer/

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I hear ya. I wish it was illegal. But the unfortunate fact is that out of 50-75 business emails a day I deal with probably 90-95 percent are in HTML. Business email, not friends and family stuff. So unfortunately the ability to do HTML is a necessity.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

TG01 is there for Europeans to buy btw.

As far as Japanese phones come. They are truly horrible to use even if it's a feature phone. Sharp being good example where buttons place change in a different menus. It's not a surprise that iphone have taken japanese smartphone market down rather fast.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Sending inline images requires HTML email. So for me its a necessity.

In some cases I'll attach documents but generally I prefer to view the email conversation without opening other files.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I've had a few years experience using many companies cloud-based services. Unfortunately, it's required for my business. Given a choice I'd have nothing to do with any of them. You can't trust 'em, you can't depend on 'em and you don't control 'em. Triple FAIL. And it's not improving with maturity like one would expect it would.

In a nutshell, cloud services have been too slow and unreliable. Our company has begun work on a totally new system that will largely, though not entirely, replace the cloud-based system we now use. It will take a couple of years and a major investment but be well worth it in speed and reliability. I wish the other companies we deal with would do the same.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Ditto. And via my iPhone, I use them too. But... those are also usable via the web. Having an integrated app is friggin' awesome because I don't have to click on a bookmark, login, then go through the procedures of getting my files up. The iPhone apps shorten some of that for me.

No arguments from me. But as it stands, it still is lacking true document change/publishing - not counting that Quick Office app, it's not integrated into the OS, so I cannot open a file that's been e-mailed to me (at least it couldn't early on, not sure about now) - and that's what I lack.

As far as the rest, I'd say we're in agreement.

I'm in agreement here too. Sure, the fact that you could install EasyDebian, then OpenOffice is an option. I don't call it a fast option. It's rather slow from what I've experienced... but it does work. Same for a few other things, but the fact that it's there - via browser or lengthy install - doesn't mean you'd be fully lacking it.

Just might be lacking some convenience of an integrated or somewhat limited functionality (read: function specific just to one service, such as the Box.net app, or Facebook app) might offer.

I liked, but loathed those things. Awesome for me since I was always traveling and during those days laptops were 10lbs. as a norm... just loathed them for personal reasons (never had a damn charge when I needed it the most!)...

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Can't you email files into Dropbox, Google Docs (not sure about the others)? Though I think with Google Docs at least you can upload stuff via PixelPipe also. As for accessing files from Dropbox I just use their website (or mobile website). The slowest part however is the downloading of the files (usually a specific word document I need). Since I have to click on it, then choose where to save it (although I could just throw everything into Documents if I wanted to be messy). I can imagine that if you were downloading multiple files it would be very cumbersome.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I think full blown apps on a mobile device is a novelty. They look cool for the first minute or so, they feel amusing for the next five minutes, and an annoyance for the rest of their installed time on your device.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

This is sick:

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/wp-conte..._2-630x630.jpg
http://www.mobilecrunch.com/wp-conte...ne-630x630.jpg

Top 1: Hitachi Mobile Hi-Vision CAM Wooo from KDDI au

(yes, this is a cell phone and it lets you record video in 720p and at 30fps, and also features microSDHC/HDMI Mini interfaces and a 3-inch IPS screen (480×854))

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Perhaps, I've had several occasions in which I've used OpenOffice (particularly Writer) to edit documents and write documents. But then again my use cases aren't usual (and my situation isn't either, I'm a graduate student that commutes about two hours each way to work and to school). Having the same compatibility with my desktop (at home) and laptop is extremely useful.

Likewise having Xournal (granted the Maemo version of it isn't necessarily "full blown" since there's probably one missing feature or two) is extremely useful. I use it to annotate the PDFs I read. Being able to then read the exact same file with my desktop/laptop, or even any computer when I have my N900 hooked up to it (I also run Xournal off the N900's storage) is extremely useful.

Now granted after I finish graduate school it may not be as useful, since I'm not going be needing that functionality on a weekly or even daily basis. But that's why I bought the N900 the first semester of graduate school. I may not have bought it if I wasn't in an environment where its functionality isn't useful (e.g. my friend who owns a Droid and works in IT/Programming).

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

@Laughing Man: oh. I didn't mean to rag on their capability. As long as the extra capabilities don't consume unnecessary resources on the mobile device (screen estate, CPU, ram, disk space) and can be quietly hidden and tucked away to be recalled gracefully and efficiently then that's adequate.

But long long load times, sacrificing more than 25% of the screen to unoptimized interface, slow response time... Would suck on a mobile device.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Although I use both Dropbox and SugarSync, I'm gravitating towards Sugarsync as it keeps multiple folders and their files "automagically" synchronised across a spread of computers - Mac and Windows - via the cloud. The Sugarsync iPhone/iPad app then provides access to all documents from wherever. Invaluable.

Earlier this week I was at a client and required a powerpoint and some excel files from an office pc that were in a folder that had not been added to Sugarsync. Using the iPhone LogMeIn app I remote controlled into the PC and added the folder into SugarSync. Three minutes later all the documents were available on my iPhone and available as a reference for our discussion. It was freeking impressive. Dude thought I came from another galaxy. (which I do of course :D)

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Nokia fanbois - read this and weep.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update2-.html

Now go back and read Eldar Murtazin's comments. It all fits together perfectly - just like a puzzle.

There are only so many excuses you can make for Nokia.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I couldn't care less if Nokia is to disappear from the face of the Earth tomorrow, and same goes for any other company, that still won't make Eldar any less of a tool he already is...

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

I've seen this statement in another article, but it would be nice if someone could normalize this data for me:

In this context, is revenue the same as sales?
What Nokia R&D budget? Phone and networks only?
14% of what Nokia revenue? Phone and networks only?
What exactly is Nokia's networks division?
3% of what Apple R&D budget? Phone only?
What Apple sales? Phone only?
Does it matter?

For stupid ol' me, this paragraph raises more questions than it answers.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

It's a fine example of tweaking stats to make 'em say what you want 'em to say.

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

"They've done studies you know.. 60 percent of the time, it works every time..." :D

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Amazing how many economy experts have managed to find their way into this thread :eek:

Unfortunately I can't stand the smell of brainfarts so please give me a call when Nokia actually loses it since all your ranting is totally obsolete.

Nokia "has already lost it, numerous times" to Motorola & Sony-Erricson so far... or have they? :rolleyes:

Conclusion:

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

It doesn't require an economy expert... In 2007 Nokia's market capitalisation was over $150 billion. Today it is $40B and worsening. Nokia's share price has tumbled by the same ratio.

Nokia - Market Cap to R&D%
http://ycharts.com/companies/NOK/mar...d_d_percentage
Apple - Market Cap to R&D%
http://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/ma...d_d_percentage

What more proof of a company's decline do you need?

Re: N8 - More proof that Nokia is losing it
 

Yeah don't forget to look back also, these numbers fluctuate in between huge intervals of time thus disproving your point.

As far as I know apple has barely withdrawn the support for 2G although the device still sells (that to blow the "wow, one phone only myth").

And to conclude apple has sold in the past 3 years ~70 million devices (or so they claim) that including 2G and 3G buybacks.
Nokia has sold ~70mil smartphones last year only + another 400million simple phones => if things were really to go down there's be no issue to keep Symbian and Maemo afloat due to a huge continuously increasing profit, no debts and huge bank deposits.

As for stock and investors perhaps you'd like to see how that relates to advertising and how much nokia is spending on that?
Or perhaps looking back on how poor apple was doing you could believe this is just a lucky fluctuation & they'll drop below 0 with useless products like iPad and lack of innovation.
Then again you could look at Nokia's steady past and expect them to grow;)

Another proof is the development of Maemo which was a niche device aimed at a very small market and selling in 3-4 countries around the world. That's quite excentric of someone with a decreasing profit, to research and build a device for a handful of people, don't you think?

So seriously, don't bother to find arguments for me and quote someone else ;)

You may quote me though when:

• Somebody manages to outsell nokia (by shall we say 20 million smartphones)
• Stock price is 0
• Symbian or Meego get canceled
• And any of the above for more than 2 years in a row (seen how Sony rose later? from the dead I tell you ;))