maemo.org - Talk - Greece financial bailout, and the mood of other Euro users.

First things first... Before writing any further I MUST make an admission... Greece's economy lies in a very bad state for the past 15 years. Fundamentally it's our governments' faults since 1974 that led us to this point. We are NOT looking to find any excuses. Furthermore, European Union knew about our economic status all along, so you can blame your governments as well for accepting us in the Eurozone in the first place...

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Originally Posted by slender (Post 646289)

And people of Greece vote these stealers again and again?

Unfortunately yes. Our corrupt political parties steal from us in 8-year turns...

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Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 646275)

4. that is no decision for anyone except global markets to make. you greeks tried to circumvent it, what has happened now? money comes from productivity, not 35 years of work...

Who said we are not productive? Maybe not as much as Germany or the Nordic countries but still... Anyhow I would love to see you being productive with 45degrees Celcius during summertime... I hope you know what summertime means in Finland, do you...?

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Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 646275)

6. excuses, excuses. what about Germany and ~10% of population?

NOT the same situation at all. Germany has always had a very steady and strong economy. Whilst this is not the case for Greece. Throw 1,5 million immigrants in any economically weak nation and it will crumble. Not looking for excuses. It's just a fact.

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Originally Posted by slender (Post 646289)

No it´s not. Major reason is Greece's Goverments inability to make your country profitable. What I have learnt about Greece in couple of weeks is that your country is quite close to communism. You goverment owns sht load of industry and corporations and keeps them running even when they do not make any profit.
Throwing reason to illegal migration is bit too easy. It´s of course one problem but I doubt that it´s the major one.

a) You cannot simply understand what the situation is with all the illegal migration unless you see it with your own eyes. Again of course our government is to blame for not controlling their population in the first place. But as I have aforementioned, so many immigrants thrown in an economically weak nation is bound to speed up the process of going bankrupt.
b) Communism? No way! Greece's communist party takes about 6% at every election since they were legalised in 1974... Only half of them are true communists, the other half see it as a way to go against the norm. It's true that our government holds shares or even entire control over loads of corporations and organisations. But you should understand that up to 20 years ago they were profitable. And now the question arises... What has the Greek government done in the past 20 years to solve this issue...? And I'll answer myself... Nothing...

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Originally Posted by slender (Post 646289)

This one is interesting stuff. Any links on this. And how much of money we are talking here.

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Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 646275)

7. Finland vs USSR. do I need to say more? (excuses, excuses)

(The following comment goes to ossipena's statement) Haha! I almost split my sides with laughter here...! Again NOT the same situation at all... And now let me elaborate on how many money does Germany owe to us primarily for reparations and what WWII meant to Greece's economy...

Firstly, Germany owes 275 Million Euros as reparations for World War I. Now, as of the Paris Peace Conference (1946) Germany was to pay reparations to Greece for different reasons, but all as a result from what took place during WWII... Here we go: a) 5 Billion Euros for all the damage caused during Greece's neutrality right before WWII, b) 51 Billion Euros as reparations for WWII, c) 14 Billion Euros for the Occupational Loan with which Germany charged the unable to react Bank of Greece in 1942... These sum up to a total 70 Billion Euros (today's values) without taking into account possible interest rates that Greece could apply. From these 70 Billion Euros Germany gave to Greece 115 million German Marks in 1960. Not included are restorations for victims as well as the destruction of great part of our archaeological and religious treasures! None knows for sure the exact amount of gold stolen but taking into account that Germany charged us with a huge loan, most of our gold must have been drained... When the German occupation was over Greece was left to misery. 900.000 victims, 35% forests destroyed, 90% of industries destroyed, almost total annihilation of communications - roads - railway - maritime. Greece now had a galloping inflation, about 15million times the one we had before the war! These are NOT excuses! These are facts. When we Greeks initiate conversations about who's to blame, we all blame our government and ourselves... We never say "damn you Germans and your reparations"...

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Originally Posted by slender (Post 646289)

Have you been brainwashed? So basically you live under constant fear. Why? btw. In Finland we also have compulsory military service for all men (6,9 or 12 months). Tell us why for example cutting your military budget half would mean that e.g. Turkey or any other you neighbour country got brightest idea to attack Nato country and invade it? Do you have oil? Your economy is highly depended on maritime and shipping of stuff from/to EU. Besides that tourism is the another big money maker. You also think that EU countries that are not in nato would just look you get invaded?

And now I've reached the hardest part of my analysis. One that I cannot complete without going political so I ask you to forgive me for doing so...

Unfortunately my dear friends none would understand unless he resides either in Greece or in Turkey... As most of you might know Greece and Turkey have not been in the best terms for the last well couple thousands of years... But how many of you who criticise truly know how many wars Greece and Turkey had for the past 150 years and how many more times we were on the very verge of going to war? None of you... Cause you have no interest in this matter. Turkey invaded Cyprus in 1974... What did the Europeans do? They were staring... In 1996 we were once again on the very brink of war... Huge armies were massing at our borders... How many of you know that? None! And how could you possibly do...? I was there, my friends were there... But you were not... What did the European governments do? You know the answer... How many of you know that there are constant dogfights above Dodecanese (the easternmost islands of Greek-Aegean sea) EVERY single day? None! So spare me the lecture and the mocking please... This is not a result of being brainwashed. We LIVE this situation every passing day. But how could you possibly know such things...? Greece economy indeed resides on tourism, maritime and shipping because our INCAPABLE governments NEVER took advantage of our natural resources... And what are these natural resources you might ask... Oil at northern Aegean, Uranium (yes, you read correctly) at Northern Greece, and Gold allover Central and Northern Greece... Honestly now... What makes you think that Turkey wouldn't invade...? The European governments...? Come again... The United States...? Haha... They love the Turks... Why should they interfere... Greece might seem politically stable (for the moment at least) but in Turkey things are slightly different... Turkey's army would love to go on a coup d' etat... They commonly express their fears on how politicians behave... And then who is to guarantee that war is not an issue...

I can go further on and analyse anything I've written on my post but I know I have already bored you and some even curse... Thus I ought to apologise for my long post!

PS: Ossipena... I do feel sorry for you... And unfortunately I cannot help it... Insulting a nation the way you did WITH NO REASON AT ALL, MAKES me feel that way...