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maemo.org - Talk (https://talk.maemo.org/index.php)
-   Nokia N900 (https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=44)
-   -   WARNING: PR 1.2 RC and Overclocking [N900] (https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52447)

zehjotkah 2010-05-12 08:15
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 654724)
For everyones information my N900 is used 24/7 and is NEVER off, so i think i have the right to say its actually been bench tested especially after this time since flashing BUT the only thing i did not do was overclock because quite frankly your asking for big trouble as the N900 neither has vent or fan capabilities and in time the heat will damage the pcb especially around the cpu area.
Now as i am probably about the 100+++ or so people that i have actually read myself on this forum that reported never had problems with the leaked fw then i think thats fair comment for all you know it all's OK?.
The problem is, that you concluse from, lets say 20 people to everyone. If you're not using the parts that are still buggy, lucky you. But that does not mean, that this firmware is 100% usable (which it is not) or doesn't cause any harm.
Before the pcb is being damaged by the heat of the CPU the N900 shuts itself down, Mr. Sir Engineer. Didn't you know that?

ysss 2010-05-12 08:20
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
@zehjotkah: it's ok dude... i've checked his character card.. .and in the statistics, turns out he's impervious to reasoning and common sense...

ossipena 2010-05-12 08:20
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophocha (Post 654736)
Motherboards can withstand a LOT of heat....my main PC is 2.0@2.8Mhz for the past 6 years with a scortching hot northbridge without a fan!....so don`t worry so much about destroying your device....the phone is not even hot to the touch when it`s at 100% cpu @ 900Mhz....it will shorten the life of the cpu but until the cpu dies you`ll be buying an N3000!.....ahaha
do you think there might be a logical explanation why N900 isn't warm and heatsink of your mobo is warm?

sophocha 2010-05-12 08:25
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossipena (Post 654745)
do you think there might be a logical explanation why N900 isn't warm and heatsink of your mobo is warm?
My point is that hardware are made to last for at least 10 years or so....now if we overclock we shorten this timespan, but it won`t die on us in a month ( if we are careful of course.... don`t go out in direct sun for hours and expect it to be fine)....use common sense and the phone will be fine.

pantera1989 2010-05-12 08:27
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
I do not overclock it constaltly. I found cpufrequi to be much better, I only overclock it for specific functions. Like psx4all, maybe vgba, youtube on microb etc. But from my experience it doesn't get hot a lot, even when playing for an hour @ 900mhz.

Now wi-fi on the other hand gets my N900 very hot. If I browse for an amount of time, the device gets very hot. So if the N900 was designed to withstand the heat of wi-fi (at least I hope it was), I am sure that heat won't be a major issue for the processor.

Joorin 2010-05-12 08:32
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantera1989 (Post 654751)
I do not overclock it constaltly. I found cpufrequi to be much better, I only overclock it for specific functions. Like psx4all, maybe vgba, youtube on microb etc. But from my experience it doesn't get hot a lot, even when playing for an hour @ 900mhz.

Now wi-fi on the other hand gets my N900 very hot. If I browse for an amount of time, the device gets very hot. So if the N900 was designed to withstand the heat of wi-fi (at least I hope it was), I am sure that heat won't be a major issue for the processor.
After playing Spotify music for 30 minutes over WiFi, my N900 was hot. Almost hot enough to make me not touch it. I don't overclock at all so I'd say this is all about energy output.

geneven 2010-05-12 08:36
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
How much damage overclocking does or running leaked firmware does is a matter of carefully accumulating evidence. It is not a matter of yelling HA HA every time someone has problems. That is called being rude.

abill_uk 2010-05-12 08:40
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophocha (Post 654736)
Motherboards can withstand a LOT of heat....my main PC is 2.0@2.8Mhz for the past 6 years with a scortching hot northbridge without a fan!....so don`t worry so much about destroying your device....the phone is not even hot to the touch when it`s at 100% cpu @ 900Mhz....it will shorten the life of the cpu but until the cpu dies you`ll be buying an N3000!.....ahaha
The difference between your pc and the N900 is the N900 does not have a heatsink attatched to the cpu nor an internal fan nor a venting system, so the heat generated will in fact go straight to the m/b so in the end you will end up with dry joints and that alone will cause no ends of problems.
PS Heat is the biggest killer of all electronic equipment. (but am sure some know it all will argue that even!)

ysss 2010-05-12 08:46
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 654772)
The difference between your pc and the N900 is the N900 does not have a heatsink attatched to the cpu nor an internal fan nor a venting system, so the heat generated will in fact go straight to the m/b so in the end you will end up with dry joints and that alone will cause no ends of problems.
PS Heat is the biggest killer of all electronic equipment. (but am sure some know it all will argue that even!)
I'm no know-it-all, but I believe you're completely wrong on this point. Leak is the #1 killer on electronic equipments. They let the smoke out, which is what these devices run on.

sophocha 2010-05-12 08:48
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by abill_uk (Post 654772)
The difference between your pc and the N900 is the N900 does not have a heatsink attatched to the cpu nor an internal fan nor a venting system, so the heat generated will in fact go straight to the m/b so in the end you will end up with dry joints and that alone will cause no ends of problems.
PS Heat is the biggest killer of all electronic equipment. (but am sure some know it all will argue that even!)
I have a 1994 Honda with a main relay with dry joints and it took it 15 years for the joints to become dry :) It was a designers fault of hooking the relay really close to the heater!....you are correct....dry joints will cause problems, but as all of us know next year we`ll be salivating for the N1000 so the argument of destroying our device will not be valid :)

jakiman 2010-05-12 08:56
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Most of the heat comes from the battery due to it being discharged quickly during load. If CPU is the one that gets so hot that we can feel the heat through all that plastic, even a stock non-overclocked BUT over-volted N900 cpu is not safer by any means.

If you are unlucky, cpu will die regardless. In OP's case, although not impossible, it may not be the CPU as it does boot to a certain point. If so, ah well, unlucky. Hope it doesn't happen to mine for at least next1 year or so.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 08:58
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernard Wei (Post 654711)
I would suggest you try reflashing the phone with the official pr1.2 firmware when it is released. Once that is done, you should be able to flash the emmc.

As long as you can still flash the phone, there is hope. I would hang on the phone until then.
thats what Im gonna do.......

abill_uk 2010-05-12 09:00
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantera1989 (Post 654790)
I wouldn't say heat alone. But it is one of the biggest contenders. However if the device functions according to the manufactor's design, the device shouldn't overheat.

The biggest killer is without a doubt electrical damage such as a short circuit. Then there is water (humidity) and dust which is surprising how much damage it can do. Heat of course is also very dangerous but usually heat damage occurs due to the user meddling in. It is rare for a device to overheat by itself..unless the manufactorer is an idiot.
Many times i have seen components go short because they overheat that includes most components such as resistors transistors ic's ... the list is endless but the underlying factor to cause this is in fact heat and the very reason heat is the fundamental cause of killing electronic devices.
One of the main problems is underated components especially resistors that get too hot and go short ie 0ohm so instead of doing its job it lets everything past end result BANG lol.

abill_uk 2010-05-12 09:01
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654810)
thats what Im gonna do.......
Please do let us know what happens.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:06
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
I got the latest official f/w to work, takes AGES to load past the five dots.... phone disabled.. :(

johnel 2010-05-12 09:07
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
If you consider how tightly packed the components are in a mobile device reducing operating heat is an important and relavant factor.

My n900 is "standard issue" (no firmware updates or overclocking) and it does get pretty warm when I play one of the many console emulators on it.

Maybe the 600mhz speed was selected because it offered the appropriate speed vs heat?

It's a shame his n900 is so messed up but he must have known the risks before he started.

The only thing he can do now is to reflash with older, stable firmware but not use the phone functionality (can't downgrade it).

Hopefully the 1.2 update will be soon. If you need a mobile phone you will just have to use an old one during the meantime.

This proves the risks are not theoretical but very real.

:) Your n900 probably thinks this:
[IMG]http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/xg11/******ED.png[/IMG]

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:09
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnel (Post 654828)
if you consider how tightly packed the components are in a mobile device reducing operating heat is an important and relavant factor.

My n900 is "standard issue" (no firmware updates or overclocking) and it does get pretty warm when i play one of the many console emulators on it.

Maybe the 600mhz speed was selected because it offered the appropriate speed vs heat?

It's a shame his n900 is so messed up but he must have known the risks before he started.

The only thing he can do now is to reflash with older, stable firmware but not use the phone functionality (can't downgrade it).

Hopefully the 1.2 update will be soon. If you need a mobile phone you will just have to use an old one during the meantime.

This proves the risks are not theoretical but very real.

:) your n900 probably thinks this:
[img]http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/xg11/******ed.png[/img]

true.........

abill_uk 2010-05-12 09:10
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sophocha (Post 654791)
I have a 1994 Honda with a main relay with dry joints and it took it 15 years for the joints to become dry :) It was a designers fault of hooking the relay really close to the heater!....you are correct....dry joints will cause problems, but as all of us know next year we`ll be salivating for the N1000 so the argument of destroying our device will not be valid :)
I had a similar situation where a pcb behind the instrument panel of a motorhome stopped all the guages working all because of dry joints and all it needed was a complete resoldering and all worked again but i might add this motorhome was in fact over 25 yrs old lol.

zehjotkah 2010-05-12 09:10
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654826)
I got the latest official f/w to work, takes AGES to load past the five dots.... phone disabled.. :(
Now flash the CMT from the leaked firmware. should give you back phone functionality.

felbutss 2010-05-12 09:12
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
lol its not the leaked PR1.2

it was that you overclocked it to 900MHZ. 800MHz should be the max. lesson learnt. send it back to nokia

abill_uk 2010-05-12 09:14
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnel (Post 654828)
If you consider how tightly packed the components are in a mobile device reducing operating heat is an important and relavant factor.

My n900 is "standard issue" (no firmware updates or overclocking) and it does get pretty warm when I play one of the many console emulators on it.

Maybe the 600mhz speed was selected because it offered the appropriate speed vs heat?

It's a shame his n900 is so messed up but he must have known the risks before he started.

The only thing he can do now is to reflash with older, stable firmware but not use the phone functionality (can't downgrade it).

Hopefully the 1.2 update will be soon. If you need a mobile phone you will just have to use an old one during the meantime.

This proves the risks are not theoretical but very real.

:) Your n900 probably thinks this:
THAT WAS FUNNY lol but very true point.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:16
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slender (Post 654670)
What a mess.

- What is your OS (32-bit & 64-bit)?
- You flashed it with old FW so it boots now but phone doesn't work?
--> fix for phone (sim not recognized) is available, search this forum
- Did you flash first Fiasco and then vanilla?
care to share?? thanks, could not find

im on 32-bit BTW


EDIT:
So now I have old f/w working, I should flash pr1.2 RC again??

zehjotkah 2010-05-12 09:18
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by felbutss (Post 654839)
lol its not the leaked PR1.2

it was that you overclocked it to 900MHZ. 800MHz should be the max. lesson learnt. send it back to nokia
wrong.
something else bricked it.
if the CPU were destroyed, nothing would work.
but he is able to reflash and boot.
the boot is slow, because there is a wrong CMT. that means the n900 tries to log in the gsm network but failes.
he just have to reflash the CMT from the leaked firmware image or reflash the entire image (which can cause problems, because there is no proper eMMC image for the leaked pr1.2).

edit: here you are:
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=365

AlMehdi 2010-05-12 09:19
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
f2thak... i was going to joke about you send it to me.. but then i saw someone alredy said that.

Your n900 is not perma-bricked. Try reflash both the vanilla and LPR1.2and it sould start as usual.

If it was perma-bricked it would never come to the dots.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:19
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zehjotkah (Post 654850)
wrong.
something else bricked it.
if the CPU were destroyed, nothing would work.
but he is able to reflash and boot.
the boot is slow, because there is a wrong CMT. that means the n900 tries to log in the gsm network but failes.
he just have to reflash the CMT from the leacked firmware image or reflash the entire image (which can cause problems, because there is no proper eMMC image for the leaked pr1.2).
how would I do this?? thanks

abill_uk 2010-05-12 09:21
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
OK problem solved me thinks and as too many know it all's on here i am off. Argue among yourselves.

zehjotkah 2010-05-12 09:23
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654854)
how would I do this?? thanks
edited my post, but here you are again ;-)

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=365

ysss 2010-05-12 09:23
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
If it wasn't a software bug, the hardware could be overheat/overvolt to cause corrupted data to be read/processed/written that caused the boot error.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:26
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
IT HAS BEEN FIXED

I just cant understand why the pr1.2 f/w wont work anymore though.....

AlMehdi 2010-05-12 09:30
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654864)
IT HAS BEEN FIXED

I just cant understand why the pr1.2 f/w wont work anymore though.....
It (PR1.2) looks up on you and..... ****! f2thak.... and runs away. You need to tell him you are sorry. Then he might come back ;)

fixfox 2010-05-12 09:31
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654864)
IT HAS BEEN FIXED

I just cant understand why the pr1.2 f/w wont work anymore though.....
Good to know your phone is ok.

I'd say It's time to change the misleading thread title.. don't you think ?

pantera1989 2010-05-12 09:31
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654864)
IT HAS BEEN FIXED

I just cant understand why the pr1.2 f/w wont work anymore though.....
Congratz :D

Cheers.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:33
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Dear PR 1.2 RC,

I am so sorry I scared and abused you, please come back. I will treat you better, I promise!

Best wishes,
F2thaK

AlMehdi 2010-05-12 09:37
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654875)
Dear PR 1.2 RC,

I am so sorry I scared and abused you, please come back. I will treat you better, I promise!

Best wishes,
F2thaK

lol! Now you can try agin ;) Maybe he like to play with you again ;)

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:37
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixfox (Post 654871)
Good to know your phone is ok.

I'd say It's time to change the misleading thread title.. don't you think ?
as OP can I do this??

gerbick 2010-05-12 09:40
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Maybe this is what Nokia meant by "damage"... hmm.

Glad you got it all sorted. Would have sucked if you had truly destroyed it man.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:40
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
I was gonna re-flash emmc then do pr1.2, but I cant flash emmc at all

AlMehdi 2010-05-12 09:42
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f2thak (Post 654886)
I was gonna re-flash emmc then do pr1.2, but I cant flash emmc at all
Whar happens? Remember not to use -R on the first flash.


(i think you change the title by editing the opening post.)

pantera1989 2010-05-12 09:50
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
Now that we're on the subject. These are my thoughts on the leaked PR 1.2

I believe it was intentionally leaked. Nokia seem to have a hard time testing it and it is taking ages too. So why not leak it, have users install it (at their own risk (and without Nokia's knowledge)), post problems here, look at maemo.org for complaints, fix them, release official PR1.2.

I may be wrong but I really do believe that you are being used as BETA testers.

F2thaK 2010-05-12 09:51
Re: NOW I've Killed It... [N900]
 
sneaky nokia................


when I try to re-flash EMMC, N900 just isnt detected by PC......i do it without -R also same...
ive flashed emmc once before (successfully)

And my phone officially will NOT run with the leaked PR1.2 f/w anymore, just tried it once more..


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